is Ret really viable in raiding? Follow

I would bet that being on the PTR had a lot to do with the fact that they brought the Ret Pally along in the first place. I imagine they were looking to try the new Ret itemization out along with the new content.

Most guilds, good or bad, still won't touch Ret Pallies with a 39-and-1/2-inch pole.

Edited, Feb 18th 2008 12:03am by Gaudion

Vengeful Glad gear is the best gear period for Ret Pallies (at least until 2.4 comes out), but I would have to hope he's specced purely for PvP right now because going past precision in Protection is pretty pointless for PvE and he's missing a lot of damage talents. I have an especially hard time believing they'd bring him along to a raid without Imp. Sanc Aura.

A Ret raiding build would almost have to be something along these lines.

Not trying to take any wind out of your sails, tool, and I mean that sincerely, but usually classes that don't have anything to do but DPS (Ret Pally, Balance Druid, Elemental Shaman, etc.) tend to put up better numbers against Hunters and other CC classes by default since those classes are more or less forced to devote a significant portion of their time and attention to keeping mobs controlled.

Like I said, I'm honestly not trying to talk down to you but... make sure you take your own performance with a grain of salt. Don't get too cocky comparing yourself to the other DPS classes around.

Shorter and more entertaining version: The fastest short bus in the world is still a short bus.

For the love of god, don't fall into the trap of thinking that putting up good numbers in Kara/Heroics at this point in the game means anything other than medium fish, petite pond.

For the record, I would be interested in trying a Ret Pally in our raids. The problem is finding one who's competent (and at least somewhat geared), which is about as easy as finding a good Moonkin Druid or non-douchebag Hunter. It's not going to happen after Sunwell hits, but if they actually keep improving them they may have a dedicated slot in WotLK (much like how Shadow Priests and Feral Druids went from whipping boys to 'bring at least one' when TBC came out and raids got shaken up).

haha, that is more entertaining. this still falls into the category of when a ret actually does well in something that some have said they shouldn't you guys backtrack and say that "compared to this ret is ok" "in this place ret is ok". but then the next thread someone says ret sucks and the same people agree that ret sucks past the 50's... i have several times (not every time because it would feel redundant) said that i speak for where my experience is primarily and speak past that in admitted speculation and rarely. i have said several times that i know i'm not in BT yet, and i recognize there may be a point where ret starts to drop off in dps. so far i haven't seen it, even now in heroics and kara. past kara might it happen... maybe. i'll deal with that when i get there... considering i'm wearing all blues beating dps'ers w/ several to mostly epics i think my performance is good and i doubt my dps will fall behind for a while especialy as i start getting more equal gear.

relax ToJ, its the same people that barked "Ret doesn't scale" nonsense from the get go. let them keep eating their pie. you just play how you feel you should and the raid will be better off.


overheard at guild meeting:

healadin : "im not going to make it to the raid for the next 4 days"
guild leader : "np, i'll bring my priest instead of my hunter"
tommyguns : "i'm away on vacation this week, i cant make any runs either"
guild leader : "did tommy just say he's gonna be away this week?"
(long silence)
tommyguns : "yeah, sorry guys"
guild leader : "damn that sucks"

It keeps coming back to the same issue we had just 2 weeks ago.

Appeal to authority.

Honestly we have explained thoroughly but since yall ret scrubs havent seen anything past lewt reaver or better yet are still working on Moroes its going right past you because we are talking on two different paradigms.

Worse instead of acknowledging that fact you just keep playing on your own ignorance of the end game to cry foul on the other guy for talking in circles when the only reason he is doing so is because you are lacking the fundamentals it takes to understand what he is talking bout.

lol, gaud.... have you ever seen tommyguns talk about what he does in a raid? have you ever seen me play? i'm not as good as tommyguns yet. i'm sure i don't do nearly as much as he does. however, not only was i second in dps, but i was pretty much the only one cleansing. the healers would cleanse here and there, but we were going w/ 2 healers. they needed 100% of their attention on healing. i always keep healbot up simply because i see too few healers that actually cleanse. they're there, but rare. i'll admit a cleanse is instant and takes little from my actual dps except my attention on my healbot. but then again, ice trap is instant too isn't it... oh well. neither of the rogues or the mage or the lock were CC'ing or cleansing or doing anything other than DPS... if that means they had tunnel vision for dps they should easily beat a ret right? i think every single one of them is better geared than me. for comparing, it was me (camila), Vagar, supurb (the one that actually beat me), zaanah, droknar, and elldios for dps. of them, droknar is probalby relatively equivelantly geared to me (he has more greens but also more epics) and elldios is only slightly better geared. you can see it for yourself.

i say all this not to say that ret is the best dps ever. i don't think so - i was beat by that rogue. i don't say it to say that ret necessarily can hang in BT. however, i do think that if a healer at heart like myself can take a ret to second in at least kara against better geared dpsers while i'm focusing on more than just dps and they're not, ret might just not suck quite as bad as you think. w/ blues and one epic (pants from heroic mech) i'm doing between 500-550 dps, easily and more like 600 on many individual fights. i understand my perspective is skewed by only making it as far as kara, but i guess from the perspective of where i am now it looks a lot like if i had similar gear i'd be way ahead of their dps. do you see why i have a hard time beleiving you when you tell me that ret is inferior dps?

final analysis - there may be groups where ret would be less desirable (i can't imagine bringing a ret if you have no other CC for instance). i think ret maybe be more situationally desirable than other classes (i.e. hunter is good dps and ice trap is useful on almost every type of mob). however, i think it would be more productive for you to help people learn how to play and gear ret right rather than tell them ret doesn't dps. i really still maintain that the rets you've based your decision on were probably not geared correctly (80% of the rets i've seen try to get spell damage still for some crazy reason or think oathkeeper is the best ret weapon) or don't pay attention to timers well enough. i'll admit, i'm one of the stonger proponents of ret, but i still am very picky about what rets i'll bring to an instance when i'm on muralimohan, especially heroics. if they have less than 20% crit or less than 1400 AP i won't bring them to heroics. i just tell them we really need cc and direct them to some AP gear...

i feel like i just wrote a book here.... sorry.

I have seen tommyguns talk about a lot of things and I make it a point not to take him at face value most of the time.


All in all, sounds like a raid I don't want to be in.


Your new name is tommyguns ver. 2.0. I will, from here on out, always refer to you as such.

Isnt it awesome when people are so entirely far behind in progression and skill/gear that they have to link other people in order to even make a half assed failed arugment.

/puke


Seriously, its fail guys. I have been nice so far but if this is going to continue to be the ace in the hole you pull out when you fail on all other fronts due to the fact that you are wrong about everything then I am going to have to get hateful.

Arguing by proxy due to the fact that you have absolutely no clue is just wrong. It is so wrong that even I am at a loss to find words to properly encapsulate the sheer fracking fail it brings to the table.

Ah. Well, yeah, I agree with you there. Just don't want to get Mazra confused, he (she?) seems to understand what we're talking about.

Ding Ding Motherfucking Ding.

If the people around you aren't playing terribly well, your position on the DPS meters is irrelevant. It's like arguing that a Shaman is a better tank than a Warrior, when the Shaman is using a Shield and the Warrior is sitting in Berserker Stance with a 2Her and smashing Mortal Strike and Hamstring on the mob. While you may be better than that warrior, it doesn't make a Sherman a good idea.

The question is not (or at least, I hope it's not) "Is Ret okay if everyone around me sucks?". The question was if it's raid viable, and the answer is... it's fairly meh.