Don't ever gem like my guildmate, please.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Draka&n=Aikuchi
Note the amount of AP he's neglecting to get to 363 hit (+20 from food).
Also note the gem in his helm. Do not ever gear for crit rating; it's the worst possible PvE stat you can get.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 8:56pm by Theophany
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I have about as much AP in Kara/T4 gear.
Yikes.
Yikes.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Not disagreeing... can you post a ss of a raid dps breakdown showing the difference between you two?
I don't PvE.
whats the cap for hit rating? and whats a good number to stop at and switch to more AP?
I have around 200 Hit right now.
I have around 200 Hit right now.
If you're at 200 hit rating, you're more than fine for Kara/Gruul.
Most people say shoot for 200 to start Kara and try to increase by about 50 for ever tier after that.
A nice formula I find is this:
AP = hit rating * 6.5
Crit% = hit rating/10
In other words, if you have 200 hit rating, you want at least 1300 AP and 20% to crit. If you don't have those stats you probablt ignored too much AP/crit to get that much hit.
It's not a hard and fast rule I saw anywhere just something I try and use for myself when re-gearing.
Most people say shoot for 200 to start Kara and try to increase by about 50 for ever tier after that.
A nice formula I find is this:
AP = hit rating * 6.5
Crit% = hit rating/10
In other words, if you have 200 hit rating, you want at least 1300 AP and 20% to crit. If you don't have those stats you probablt ignored too much AP/crit to get that much hit.
It's not a hard and fast rule I saw anywhere just something I try and use for myself when re-gearing.
I have 1570 AP 32% crit and 200 Hit. I think my crit is so high because of the Fist Specilization.
Theophany the Sly wrote:
Don't ever gem like my guildmate, please.
Note the amount of AP he's neglecting to get to 363 hit (+20 from food).
Note the amount of AP he's neglecting to get to 363 hit (+20 from food).
Funny that you would say that. I remember countless times you recommended to go for +hit and disregard other stats. He might be your victim...
But yes, the gem socketing seems to be somewhat random (like getting stamina socket bonus, but not AP/hit/agi bonuses).
I said to go for hit when it was reasonable. Missing out on socket bonuses, while not a huge deal, can be quite a bit of crit% and AP missed.
I've never advocated mindlessly gemming for hit.
I've never advocated mindlessly gemming for hit.
General rule of thumb is if you socketing for bonus
Glinting = red (+hit/+agi)
Rigid = yellow (+hit)
Shifting = blue (+agi/+stamina)
If the gem bonus outweighted by gem stats stick +hit, if hit is capped - stick + agi.
Avoid using more than 2 shifting (blue) gems as they have least DPS stats and 2 is enough to activate RED.
Avoid crit and AP gems they're inferior.
Glinting = red (+hit/+agi)
Rigid = yellow (+hit)
Shifting = blue (+agi/+stamina)
If the gem bonus outweighted by gem stats stick +hit, if hit is capped - stick + agi.
Avoid using more than 2 shifting (blue) gems as they have least DPS stats and 2 is enough to activate RED.
Avoid crit and AP gems they're inferior.
Theophany the Sly wrote:
I said to go for hit when it was reasonable. Missing out on socket bonuses, while not a huge deal, can be quite a bit of crit% and AP missed.
I've never advocated mindlessly gemming for hit.
I've never advocated mindlessly gemming for hit.
That is all completely true by itself.
But the problem is when people are convinced about over-importance of +hit, they make *unreasonable* choices. If somebody tries to reach a given +hit value for all costs, be it the famous and completely bogus 200 rating for Karazhan, or the +hit cap, then they tent to chose wrong gear/gems.
I think this guy you linked is an example of this happening.
There's no bad stats there's bad amounts :)
Str isn't that bad for rogue if you have item with 1000+
j/k
It's all about wise weighting the stats each of them adds certain amount of DPS
So choosing 8 hit over 20AP is silly as choosing 16AP over 8agi
Str isn't that bad for rogue if you have item with 1000+
j/k
It's all about wise weighting the stats each of them adds certain amount of DPS
So choosing 8 hit over 20AP is silly as choosing 16AP over 8agi
Wytryszek wrote:
Theophany the Sly wrote:
I said to go for hit when it was reasonable. Missing out on socket bonuses, while not a huge deal, can be quite a bit of crit% and AP missed.
I've never advocated mindlessly gemming for hit.
I've never advocated mindlessly gemming for hit.
That is all completely true by itself.
But the problem is when people are convinced about over-importance of +hit, they make *unreasonable* choices. If somebody tries to reach a given +hit value for all costs, be it the famous and completely bogus 200 rating for Karazhan, or the +hit cap, then they tent to chose wrong gear/gems.
I think this guy you linked is an example of this happening.
Yep, I completely agree.
I blame EJ and Ippon.
Scholar
20 posts
Quote:
It's all about wise weighting the stats each of them adds certain amount of DPS
So choosing 8 hit over 20AP is silly as choosing 16AP over 8agi
So choosing 8 hit over 20AP is silly as choosing 16AP over 8agi
Curious, not flaming here...
The 16AP over 8Agi part that is mentioned confuses me.
8Agi = 8 AP + a little crit + a little dodge + a little armor
(as I understand it.)
With dodge and armor not a huge factor in PVE, why would you take half the AP with a little crit? I believe I have at least one 16AP gem and wondering if I am silly.
Thanks
In grps/raid you should be getting blessing of kings which increases your agi by 10% meaning agi scales with raid buffs, and while you should be getting ap buffs there aren't any that increase it by a % of what you have.
As to gemming for +hit, as long as you're combat spec there is nothing wrong with maxing hit as it also maxes your energy regen potential due to combat potency. And while the +crit gem in the helm is dumb and i'd gem the boots different since the bonus is +hit anyway, the rest of the gems are fine for a combat build.
And although 'over-estimating +hit importance' might not be optimal its way better than under-estimating its importance. I didn't think it mattered that much until i started tanking pugs with my pally and checking recount to see why all the rogues i pugged with weren't out damaging me as a tank. The underlying theme is that most of them were missing between 10-15% of the time.
As to gemming for +hit, as long as you're combat spec there is nothing wrong with maxing hit as it also maxes your energy regen potential due to combat potency. And while the +crit gem in the helm is dumb and i'd gem the boots different since the bonus is +hit anyway, the rest of the gems are fine for a combat build.
And although 'over-estimating +hit importance' might not be optimal its way better than under-estimating its importance. I didn't think it mattered that much until i started tanking pugs with my pally and checking recount to see why all the rogues i pugged with weren't out damaging me as a tank. The underlying theme is that most of them were missing between 10-15% of the time.
Quote:
whats the cap for hit rating? and whats a good number to stop at and switch to more AP?
I have around 200 Hit right now.
I have around 200 Hit right now.
Here are the hit caps I hope this helps.
Auto-attack, 0/5 Precision: 442
Auto-attack, 5/5 Precision: 363
Special, 0/5 Precision: 142
Special, 5/5 Precision: 64
XpReSS
Quintor wrote:
Quote:
It's all about wise weighting the stats each of them adds certain amount of DPS
So choosing 8 hit over 20AP is silly as choosing 16AP over 8agi
So choosing 8 hit over 20AP is silly as choosing 16AP over 8agi
Curious, not flaming here...
The 16AP over 8Agi part that is mentioned confuses me.
8Agi = 8 AP + a little crit + a little dodge + a little armor
(as I understand it.)
With dodge and armor not a huge factor in PVE, why would you take half the AP with a little crit? I believe I have at least one 16AP gem and wondering if I am silly.
Thanks
Blessing of Kings.
I'm not sure what exactly the problem here is. Changing any of his gems - save the one in his helm to Shiftng Nightseye - is a loss of about 1 paper dps for every 8 hit he gives up for agility. Even moreso because he's running a lot of blue sockets, so it's either blue sockets (full of fail), red sockets (still a damage drop), or orange gems (a slightly less drastic damage drop, about .3dps/change). It'll hurt a little in fights with tons of movement - Leo, for example - but in fights that are mostly stand-and-damage he'll pull back ahead. Sounds to me like he did his homework, even if I'd still prefer Glinting Topaz's in some of the sockets.
Like it or not, socketing straight +hit (except to activate RED and occasionally get bonuses, which none of his gear has any decent bonuses) is better for sustained damage than socketing anything else. Movement favors straight agility/ap/crit a bit more, of course, since more damage will be yellow and already hit capped.
Like it or not, socketing straight +hit (except to activate RED and occasionally get bonuses, which none of his gear has any decent bonuses) is better for sustained damage than socketing anything else. Movement favors straight agility/ap/crit a bit more, of course, since more damage will be yellow and already hit capped.
Also, if you didn't notice, the Deathmantle pieces have very little hit built in. This means that it is necessary to socket somewhat excessively towards hit. He may have slightly over done it here but not by as much as it might appear.
lsfreak wrote:
Changing any of his gems - save the one in his helm to Shiftng Nightseye - is a loss of about 1 paper dps for every 8 hit he gives up for agility.
You just said the key words.
As a raiding rogue, you don't gear for non-raid DPS. You gear with the fact in mind that you'll have Kings and Unleashed Rage.
Hit doesn't scale as much as Agi.
My point was that if he socketed for his socket bonuses (and yes, they do add up), especially on his chest, he'd have more Agi and AP, and thus be putting out more DPS.
Paper DPS meaning perfectly ideal, fully-buffed raid situations. Think Patchwerk - all-out damage, no movement, no chance to pull aggro. Paper DPS =/= character screen, but what you get when you math it all out on paper in a perfect situation.
EDIT: Gemming "correctly" on his chest nets -3dps. That was one of the biggest drops, he'd lose less by going Glinting, though it'd still be a loss.
Edited, Feb 14th 2008 8:29pm by lsfreak
EDIT: Gemming "correctly" on his chest nets -3dps. That was one of the biggest drops, he'd lose less by going Glinting, though it'd still be a loss.
Edited, Feb 14th 2008 8:29pm by lsfreak
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