My GM wants me to get it, I dont agree with him but he stands on the fact that I die often in kara (Pally left so I'm getting used to not having salv). He says that it has saved him on many occasions but I just dont see the worth in sacrificing 12 agi for it.
We are clearing gruuls and soon to come SSC/Tk (gruul down a few nights back) so the longer fights may make the -2% threat more worth it.
Opinions?
EDIT- lol I probebly should have said that, yes I'm fury :P
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 12:53am by Imtar
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-2% threat to capeFollow
Why would a Warrior want less threat? Am I missing something?
Scholar
42 posts
When you're fury you want less threat, which is why I'd assume salvation was on him in the first place.
-2% threat means you can do that much more damage, with the same threat you had before.
Doesnt seem like much, but I think 12 agi benefits way less.
Go with it, it is probably better, try it out, and report stats after raid.
Doesnt seem like much, but I think 12 agi benefits way less.
Go with it, it is probably better, try it out, and report stats after raid.
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My GM wants me to get it, I dont agree with him but he stands on the fact that I die often in kara
Ok, thats understandable since the paly left and there are only 10 slots to fill. Whats a paly anyway right? lol
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We are clearing gruuls and soon to come SSC/Tk
Ok, now this is where it gets silly. 25 man raid and not a single paly? Come on. You can't be serious, unless I missed it somewhere where you said that you're guild lots its ONLY Paladin. With 25 slots to fill, you can definitely fit a couple of paly's in there whether they be tank, ret or heals. If you can't find that many, 1 shouldn't be hard to come by (which means you get salv, period).
I hope you have enough tanks for VR need 4 at least, but doable with 3. The threat reduction is great I guess, but I like that little extra crit. I also think that if you're that far in the game and you're putting out more threat than your tank(s), then maybe they need to get the 2% threat enchant put on their gloves. Salv + Fury talents + Decent Tank; you should be fine with 12 agi over the threat. But who am I? I'm merely just stating my opinion.
OH Dah Warrior <> tank always. Yes, all others do want less threat. How much difference will it make? I am not a WoW math Wiz, but if you lose a lot, won't a pause every x seconds make up for the times you push the limit instead of always being lower aand missing out on the +Agi?
Sounds like you need to get your tanks +2% better tanking O.o I've never heard of someone gimping themselfs to reduce threat (I mean there are better cape enchants). Really like to see your main tanks talent/gear set ups.
If there's a Hunter in the group, use MisDirect, every time it's ready.
On that note... you might want to get Omen threat meter, and slow down on your abilites until he gets a better lead on threat. If you're dying at the end of the fight (Execute time)... well that's understandable. If you're dying right off the bat, you might be doing too much too soon. It's the DPS job to watch their threat, as well is it's the tank's job to watch his threat.
The object of raiding is getting better gear O.o Better gear = Better attack = killing bosses faster.
I'm sure you're in Berserker stance also, that's -threat right there too.
All and all, I'd really really perfer not to... but if the GM insists, I guess you'll have too... but it's wasting a enchant.
*edit* Yay 4k posts.. that's 4,000 useless posts I've babbled out
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 1:38am by GYFFORD
If there's a Hunter in the group, use MisDirect, every time it's ready.
On that note... you might want to get Omen threat meter, and slow down on your abilites until he gets a better lead on threat. If you're dying at the end of the fight (Execute time)... well that's understandable. If you're dying right off the bat, you might be doing too much too soon. It's the DPS job to watch their threat, as well is it's the tank's job to watch his threat.
The object of raiding is getting better gear O.o Better gear = Better attack = killing bosses faster.
I'm sure you're in Berserker stance also, that's -threat right there too.
All and all, I'd really really perfer not to... but if the GM insists, I guess you'll have too... but it's wasting a enchant.
*edit* Yay 4k posts.. that's 4,000 useless posts I've babbled out
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 1:38am by GYFFORD
TBH, get a freakin paladin. They're great healers/tanks, and the buffs are awesome...nuff said. Scrub the enchant and get on your tanks *** to get better at generating threat!
Uhh..not the clearest sentence I've read lately, but it still gimps your DPS (which is why you're there in the first place) when you have to stop every x seconds.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 6:41am by PigeonMan
Quote:
I am not a WoW math Wiz, but if you lose a lot, won't a pause every x seconds make up for the times you push the limit instead of always being lower aand missing out on the +Agi?
Uhh..not the clearest sentence I've read lately, but it still gimps your DPS (which is why you're there in the first place) when you have to stop every x seconds.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 6:41am by PigeonMan
I use Subtlety, and I'm fairly certain that my tanks are competent. On the other hand, so am I. =p
It's 2% more damage you can deal without pulling aggro, versus a gain of about .33% crit. If you're having threat issues anywhere, Subtlety is far and away superior. If you're in Kara without Salv then that's one thing, and it won't make much difference - you still really need Salv or you're going to be rather gimped. If you're running into any potential threat issues in 25-mans, though, snag it.
It's 2% more damage you can deal without pulling aggro, versus a gain of about .33% crit. If you're having threat issues anywhere, Subtlety is far and away superior. If you're in Kara without Salv then that's one thing, and it won't make much difference - you still really need Salv or you're going to be rather gimped. If you're running into any potential threat issues in 25-mans, though, snag it.
GYFFORD, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
All and all, I'd really really perfer not to... but if the GM insists, I guess you'll have too... but it's wasting a enchant.
Next you'll be demanding Might or Kings from your paladin instead of Salv. :roll:
Seriously, by the time you reach raiding stage, you've got to manage your threat. If you can get an enchant or spell boost that reduces the threat gained from doing damage, it's not a gimp but an invitation to increase the amount you put out.
Gyff, you said it yourself. If you're dying right off the bat, you might be doing too much too soon. A threat reduction allows you to do more, sooner.
My guild requires everyone to use a threat meter. Depending on what's going on in a fight, my threat generation can be huge or it can be really slow and the DPS needs to know just how far they can push without pulling mobs (or worse, a boss) off of me. I try to warn them when I'm having trouble building threat fast but it's even better when they get that warning from the threat meter.
Even if you don't have a threat meter, if you see the tank getting stunned a lot then that means that for every second the tank is stunned, the tank is not building threat and that you might want to hold back a little. Pay attention to things going on in the fight and learn to spot things that indicate that you might take aggro if you don't scale back a bit.
Even if you don't have a threat meter, if you see the tank getting stunned a lot then that means that for every second the tank is stunned, the tank is not building threat and that you might want to hold back a little. Pay attention to things going on in the fight and learn to spot things that indicate that you might take aggro if you don't scale back a bit.
Leodis wrote:
GYFFORD, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
All and all, I'd really really perfer not to... but if the GM insists, I guess you'll have too... but it's wasting a enchant.
Next you'll be demanding Might or Kings from your paladin instead of Salv. :roll:
Seriously, by the time you reach raiding stage, you've got to manage your threat. If you can get an enchant or spell boost that reduces the threat gained from doing damage, it's not a gimp but an invitation to increase the amount you put out.
Gyff, you said it yourself. If you're dying right off the bat, you might be doing too much too soon. A threat reduction allows you to do more, sooner.
Hmm, last time I checked my armory I was there. We don't require any of our DPS to give up enchants for lower threat. That's just silly. +agi Vs -threat? The answer is pretty much hands down.
If a Mage is getting ready to draw threat, does he keep casting? No he waits a second. I will say that our DPS Warrior always keeps me on my toes everywhere we go, but I stay ahead. Execute time is a dicey sometimes....can't 8k crit after fighting me for aggro all fight, and not expect to die... but we down the boss and get him a rez. We don't ask him to get new lower threat enchants lol. It just gives him more of a ego problem lol j/k if he is reading it.
DPS can manage their threat by not hitting that Heroic Strike until the next Shield Slam/Revenge/etc.
My 1/2 year of reading the Warrior forums, I honestly can ever remember a post where someone was that 1337 that he was forced to go -threat.
Again, if that's how people handle it, cool. I've just never seen it. I'd still love to see the MT gear/talent set up tho.
*edit*
Or if that 2% is that vital due to the ubber DPS going on. Sacrifice 10 stam on your 'Tank' and have him get the +2% threat for gloves. Your DPS can do their job, and your tank can still do his job.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 11:47am by GYFFORD
I guess it's a case of how much gimping is enough. If you're pausing between casting or hitting mobs so as to manage your threat, you're gimping youself one way and if you're passing on a 0.33% crit boost, that's another way.
Another way to think about the enchant is 2% less pausing between attacks to manage your threat level. It's doing more damage for the amount of threat you put out.
How would it be if your dps warrior could put out slightly more damage without fighting you for aggro and without having to be rezzed?
Another way to think about the enchant is 2% less pausing between attacks to manage your threat level. It's doing more damage for the amount of threat you put out.
How would it be if your dps warrior could put out slightly more damage without fighting you for aggro and without having to be rezzed?
wow I must have been so tired when I wrote this...
Yes I have a pally in 25 man raids (sometimes two) and we all have omen. So basically the only time this enchant will help is in kara, which I'm getting better with the no salv situation
Last time I posted a guildies armoury on these forums for "public scrutiny" as it was put, I was effectively kicked from the guild so I'm not jumping out of my seat to do it again
EDIT- spelling
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 2:01pm by Imtar
Yes I have a pally in 25 man raids (sometimes two) and we all have omen. So basically the only time this enchant will help is in kara, which I'm getting better with the no salv situation
Quote:
Really like to see your main tanks talent/gear set ups.
Last time I posted a guildies armoury on these forums for "public scrutiny" as it was put, I was effectively kicked from the guild so I'm not jumping out of my seat to do it again
EDIT- spelling
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 2:01pm by Imtar
If you're ever at the point where you even have to consider stopping your next attack in order to not pull threat, you should get the 2% threat enchant. Period. You're better off being that much safer and not having to stop attacks than you are to do very slightly more damage when you are attacking.
You can also get your tanks to do more than they are, but that's a different discussion. *shrug*
You can also get your tanks to do more than they are, but that's a different discussion. *shrug*
Imtar wrote:
Quote:
Really like to see your main tanks talent/gear set ups.
Last time I posted a guildies armoury on these forums for "public scrutiny" as it was put, I was effectively kicked from the guild so I'm not jumping out of my seat to do it again
EDIT- spelling
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 2:01pm by Imtar
Could always PM it, or link your armory and I can process of elimation what tank it is =P
J/k. From the other posts, I guess -threat is not that bad. You'll be losing a bit more crit. I honestly don't know how much -2% threat will help. I might get +threat on my gloves now. I always liked the +stam on them tho.
Hmmmm. Now I'm confused. Red pill, Blue pill?
If you are fighting for threat and worrying about having t hold back -2% hreat is an awesome enchant. 2% threat allows you to do more damage. More damage = better for raid. That .33% crit will just have you pushing your tank a little harder and cause you to have to lower your possible damage output.
The best players are the ones who can put out as much dps as possible while staying UNDER the tanks threat cap. While in Gruuls you might not need it, once you start to get some of the gear from TK/SSC you will be much harder pushed too keep your damage up vs threat low.
IMO -2% threat > 12 Agility.
The best players are the ones who can put out as much dps as possible while staying UNDER the tanks threat cap. While in Gruuls you might not need it, once you start to get some of the gear from TK/SSC you will be much harder pushed too keep your damage up vs threat low.
IMO -2% threat > 12 Agility.
Quote:
That's just silly. +agi Vs -threat? The answer is pretty much hands down.
Yup. -Threat is tons better :P
The best tank I've known, who also usually tanks in a threat-heavy set (lots of expertise and hit rating), still manages to put out less threat in prot than when in Fury (we're at 3/4TK 4/6SSC).
As for how much -2% threat is, if you and the tank are both, for example, putting out 1000tps, and you have ImpZerker, the -2% threat for you allows you to do about 22 more dps. If you include Salv and are still running at 1000tps, then it's about 30 more dps. Really big nonweapon upgrades going from T4-level to T5-level are generally 12dps upgrades, for reference.
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