Hello all, and thanks for clicking. I know this has likely been discussed many times on this board and the various Warrior/Tank blogs out there (which I read from time to time). But, I havent been able to pinpoint the clarification I'm looking for.
Q: Generally speaking, are the numbers I need to properly tank heroics more or less flexible than for Kara?
I can recall reading something that said you want about the same stats to tank either without being completely overwhelmed. Unbuffed minimums of 12k HP, 490 Defense, 30% Avoidance & 12-13k Armor. I've been operating under the presumption that I need these numbers to be effective in either situation... but no matter how much research I do, I cant really find any kind of confirmation or correction.
I'm getting pretty close to those numbers, and can see finish line. 2 quest rewards (Dabiri's Enigma & Protector's Mark of the Redemption), the KoT and Scryers enchants and gem upgrades (blew my gem budget on epic training) will put me over the top.
This might be at the expense of a fair amount of TPS (which I fear I can ill afford) at first... which is concerning. So I'm hoping that, if perhaps I skimp a bit on Avoidance or Stam to maintain somewhat better TPS, I might be able to at least skate by in heroics until I assemble a kit that will allow me to have both my tanking and threat generating stats at the same time... and then start Kara hitting on all cylinders.
Here's me (be gentle...):
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightninghoof&n=Skreed
Any responses/feedback are very much appreciated. TY in advance.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 5:04pm by soobooboo
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Kara v Heroic Tanking Readiness?Follow
I don't think you're ready for either atm, and definitely not heroics. Don't step into either without 490 defense. Not 489 defense, not 489.5 defense, but 490. Even then unless you have like 3 mages, yourself and a good healer it's going to be rough with your current setup. Mainly because your avoidance is very low. You only have about 26-27% dodge+parry. the best upgrades I think you can get for yourself at this point are a Grom'tor's Charge (quest chain in Shadowmoon Valley), Devilshark Cape (Steamvaults final boss), and some new trinkets. There's a quest chain in Hellfire Peninsula that you should be able to complete easily that gives you a Regal Protectorate, and one in Netherstorm that gives you Dabiri's Enigma, both good. or you can run shadow labs for the Adamantite Figurine. Definitely replace the weapon, trinkets, and cape as soon as you can.
Secondly, re-gem everything for Stamina. Forget the socket bonuses, save up 300g or so and blow it on Solid Stars of Elune.
Also, off-tanking in kara (hell, even main tanking) is WAY easier than heroics IMO. Heroics are @#%^ing rough, especially when you're starting out. It gets easier after about the 30 or 40th time you cause your group to wipe, but until you have lots of really good gear, it never really gets "easy".
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 5:35pm by duvar
Secondly, re-gem everything for Stamina. Forget the socket bonuses, save up 300g or so and blow it on Solid Stars of Elune.
Also, off-tanking in kara (hell, even main tanking) is WAY easier than heroics IMO. Heroics are @#%^ing rough, especially when you're starting out. It gets easier after about the 30 or 40th time you cause your group to wipe, but until you have lots of really good gear, it never really gets "easy".
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 5:35pm by duvar
Thanks for the quick response. First time I'd heard Kara is less difficult to tank than Heroics (at least... the more difficult Heroics).
I've got everything plotted out to get the last 35+ points of def. Dabiri's enigma & the ring I mentioned give 30/25 DR respectively. Glyph of the Defender and Inscription of the Knight give another 16/13. 30+25+16+13=84 Def Rating or 35 Def Skill. Bang... 490 Defense AND 30% (or very close to it) avoidance.
Gem upgrades are also in the works. Will still need some Def Rating from Gems (maybe 2 Yellow slots). I've read the recommendation that you fill every available slot with Solid SoEs. Seems sensible. But I could be more comfortable with my TPS, and am leary of reaching the point where threat generation becomes critically low in the name of Effective Health.
Would LOVE that trink from Slabs. But I'm not terribly fond of that place and my luck with drops has been iffy (took 3 weeks of Arc runs for my Bold chest to drop... then my Jade Skull fell the following night).
Likewise: the SV Cape. Just wasnt sure when we'd get around to farming for it, so I went ahead and bought this one. The problem is (not to make excuses, its just the way things are), my Priest buddy and I arent available to run as much as we'd like to be. I'd say 3 runs per week is about average. 5 is a windfall. Given our few opportunities, we tend to just indentify a few shared goals and focus on those until done. For example, right now we're working on Shat rep. So its TK, TK, TK... interspersed with the odd run for attunement or to complete a daily. As such, I'm probably more likely to have my Crest of the Sha'tar before the Adamantine Figurine.
Grom'tor's charge is something I have a little further down my to-do list.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 6:42pm by soobooboo
I've got everything plotted out to get the last 35+ points of def. Dabiri's enigma & the ring I mentioned give 30/25 DR respectively. Glyph of the Defender and Inscription of the Knight give another 16/13. 30+25+16+13=84 Def Rating or 35 Def Skill. Bang... 490 Defense AND 30% (or very close to it) avoidance.
Gem upgrades are also in the works. Will still need some Def Rating from Gems (maybe 2 Yellow slots). I've read the recommendation that you fill every available slot with Solid SoEs. Seems sensible. But I could be more comfortable with my TPS, and am leary of reaching the point where threat generation becomes critically low in the name of Effective Health.
Would LOVE that trink from Slabs. But I'm not terribly fond of that place and my luck with drops has been iffy (took 3 weeks of Arc runs for my Bold chest to drop... then my Jade Skull fell the following night).
Likewise: the SV Cape. Just wasnt sure when we'd get around to farming for it, so I went ahead and bought this one. The problem is (not to make excuses, its just the way things are), my Priest buddy and I arent available to run as much as we'd like to be. I'd say 3 runs per week is about average. 5 is a windfall. Given our few opportunities, we tend to just indentify a few shared goals and focus on those until done. For example, right now we're working on Shat rep. So its TK, TK, TK... interspersed with the odd run for attunement or to complete a daily. As such, I'm probably more likely to have my Crest of the Sha'tar before the Adamantine Figurine.
Grom'tor's charge is something I have a little further down my to-do list.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 6:42pm by soobooboo
stepping into heroics is much easier than just stepping into kara as a raid. All you need is a good group for said heroic and knowledge of what to do in the instance.
490 defense is NOT required in heroics as the bosses there are not raid bosses, and thus, are not level 73 [where 490 def IS required].
as far as your current gear, i'll have to be a bit critical about.
Don't use those **** vendored gems, the uncommon ones should cost you no more than 2g each regardless of color. Putting in stars of elune on the gear you have now would just be a big waste tbh. Also, the only thing that will give you more significant threat is SBV, and not really by overly much.
Get your things enchanted correctly as well, 15 str doesn't add much sbv at all [in fact, i think only 1 point]. putting in a +8 stam lw'ing kit, or a +15 agi would be better. Also, the stam kit for legs [40 stam + i think... 10 agi is it?] is fairly cheap and great.
Lastly, replace all of your dps gear [with makeshift gems to try to make them somewhat viable for prot (ps. not working ;)] with actual tanking gear. Look up what drops where and instead of farming for rep in a certain place, farm/quest for those items because it will make things a lot easier.
TBH, heroics actually get harder once you and the group gears up for the tank. You will be find yourself more rage starved unless you have 2 very good, distinctive gear sets [one for hp one for threat] and while you're rage starved, your dps will be doing move damage since they will be better geared as well.
490 defense is NOT required in heroics as the bosses there are not raid bosses, and thus, are not level 73 [where 490 def IS required].
as far as your current gear, i'll have to be a bit critical about.
Don't use those **** vendored gems, the uncommon ones should cost you no more than 2g each regardless of color. Putting in stars of elune on the gear you have now would just be a big waste tbh. Also, the only thing that will give you more significant threat is SBV, and not really by overly much.
Get your things enchanted correctly as well, 15 str doesn't add much sbv at all [in fact, i think only 1 point]. putting in a +8 stam lw'ing kit, or a +15 agi would be better. Also, the stam kit for legs [40 stam + i think... 10 agi is it?] is fairly cheap and great.
Lastly, replace all of your dps gear [with makeshift gems to try to make them somewhat viable for prot (ps. not working ;)] with actual tanking gear. Look up what drops where and instead of farming for rep in a certain place, farm/quest for those items because it will make things a lot easier.
TBH, heroics actually get harder once you and the group gears up for the tank. You will be find yourself more rage starved unless you have 2 very good, distinctive gear sets [one for hp one for threat] and while you're rage starved, your dps will be doing move damage since they will be better geared as well.
I'm gonna have to agree with some posters and say that Heroics are actually harder to tank than Kara. In Kara, you'll generally have enough CC and offtankage to only have to focus on one mob. Also, you'll have more than one healer keeping you up and an offtank who can take the slack. Towards the end of Kara, you'll start getting into rougher terrain, but still, I'd rather tank Karazhan than Heroic Shattered Halls any day of the week.
In Heroics, it depends on your group make-up, and if you are lacking in CC, you're gonna need to be able to take a lot of hits. Unbuffed, I'm over halfway through 27k armor on my druid tank. Certain mobs, like the Ravenguards in Heroic Sethekk, will still pummel me down. They cannot be CC'd and they always come in groups of 2. With your gear, you would be dead within seconds. They hit me for over 1k damage per hit, and they attack obscenely fast.
It also depends on the heroic. Steamvault is not much harder than regular, but Shattered Halls is a nightmare of frustration if your group is not up to par. I can remember the first time I stepped into a heroic and took one of the hits from the mobs there. I almost crapped my pants with how hard they hit, as I had no experience with heroics or with raids.
That said, there is some stuff I think you should do first.
Run Mechanar for the Jade-skull Breastplate.
Run Steamvault for the Devilshark Cape.
Easiest to get shoulders that are good for tanking == arena. Try those on for size.
Regem your gear. You don't want vendor gems in any gear, ever. EVER. Even if you are level 58 and it is your first piece of gemmable gear. Suck it up and spend the 1 gold on green gems AT LEAST.
Get some tanking trinkets.
It's a sad fact of life in WoW that your best pieces of tanking gear for tanking heroics and kara is in heroics and kara. But you can push yourself a lot farther than you have so far. You might want to consider doing some rep grinds such as Thrallmar (nice tanking axe, works great with Orc racial), Sha'tar (great tanking shield), and so on.
In Heroics, it depends on your group make-up, and if you are lacking in CC, you're gonna need to be able to take a lot of hits. Unbuffed, I'm over halfway through 27k armor on my druid tank. Certain mobs, like the Ravenguards in Heroic Sethekk, will still pummel me down. They cannot be CC'd and they always come in groups of 2. With your gear, you would be dead within seconds. They hit me for over 1k damage per hit, and they attack obscenely fast.
It also depends on the heroic. Steamvault is not much harder than regular, but Shattered Halls is a nightmare of frustration if your group is not up to par. I can remember the first time I stepped into a heroic and took one of the hits from the mobs there. I almost crapped my pants with how hard they hit, as I had no experience with heroics or with raids.
That said, there is some stuff I think you should do first.
Run Mechanar for the Jade-skull Breastplate.
Run Steamvault for the Devilshark Cape.
Easiest to get shoulders that are good for tanking == arena. Try those on for size.
Regem your gear. You don't want vendor gems in any gear, ever. EVER. Even if you are level 58 and it is your first piece of gemmable gear. Suck it up and spend the 1 gold on green gems AT LEAST.
Get some tanking trinkets.
It's a sad fact of life in WoW that your best pieces of tanking gear for tanking heroics and kara is in heroics and kara. But you can push yourself a lot farther than you have so far. You might want to consider doing some rep grinds such as Thrallmar (nice tanking axe, works great with Orc racial), Sha'tar (great tanking shield), and so on.
Just as a guide. This is me in my tanking gear.
Only a few from Heroic Ramps and the rest from regular instances. I'm still deciding whether to switch my S1 Arena shoulders to tanking shoulders. I also have me felsteel set in my bag and a few other weapons depending on the situation. I have some of the basic gear...should get you through the first 2-3 bosses in Kara.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 1:59am by Mylandre
Only a few from Heroic Ramps and the rest from regular instances. I'm still deciding whether to switch my S1 Arena shoulders to tanking shoulders. I also have me felsteel set in my bag and a few other weapons depending on the situation. I have some of the basic gear...should get you through the first 2-3 bosses in Kara.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 1:59am by Mylandre
Okay... thanks again to latest responders.
Suffice to say, the vendor gems are just a convenient stopgap. Not planning on doing anything I have any question about my readiness for before they're replaced.
Reading between the lines a bit:
>Heroics may or may not be more difficult to tank than early Kara (Generally). It sounds like (with most things in WoW) there's no blanket rule and it all kindof depends. Regardless, I have a ways to go (may post new link once everything's in its right place).
>I may be a bit too hung up on DPS and/or TPS. Need to get that effective health way up.
Will be working on my group quests the next few days. Doubt I'll get all the way to Gromtor's Charge, but should have Dabiri's Enigma and perhaps a ring upgrade by the weekend... along with the enchants and hopefully several of the gems.
Suffice to say, the vendor gems are just a convenient stopgap. Not planning on doing anything I have any question about my readiness for before they're replaced.
Reading between the lines a bit:
>Heroics may or may not be more difficult to tank than early Kara (Generally). It sounds like (with most things in WoW) there's no blanket rule and it all kindof depends. Regardless, I have a ways to go (may post new link once everything's in its right place).
>I may be a bit too hung up on DPS and/or TPS. Need to get that effective health way up.
Will be working on my group quests the next few days. Doubt I'll get all the way to Gromtor's Charge, but should have Dabiri's Enigma and perhaps a ring upgrade by the weekend... along with the enchants and hopefully several of the gems.
Oh I fergot to add that the felsteel set is excellent for tanking.
Good posts in here that give good advice, and it's awesome that you're taking the time to look into things, as well as thinking for yourself about your gear. A proactive, and not a reactive approach to tanking is what you need to be successful. I wouldn't really have TPS in mind right now. What you need to focus on before you worry about that is being able to stay alive. You can use the same saying that is used so often for DPS in the case of tanking. How much TPS will you be doing as a corpse on the ground? Doing a bit less TPS inside of kara and heroics generally won't wipe a group. What WILL is when you don't have the stats needed and you get bursted into the ground. Though both honestly end up hand in hand, if an order had to be put to it, staying alive comes first, pushing optimum TPS is secondary.
Tanking heroics is most definitely more difficult than kara. The main difference between the two is the trash, and what you have to deal with it. Inside of kara, as was mentioned before, you will rarely be tanking more than one mob at a time. With CC as well as an OT and MT, outside of a CC or tank dying, the pulls are very controlled. You will be tanking multiple mobs inside of heroics, which means more damage, and there is more opportunity for you to make an error in tanking. With the healing present inside of kara, a stray mob for a few seconds isn't normally the end of the world. In a heroic, if you have a stray mob, it's normally going to be going for your healer, and he's the only one you have. Mistakes inside of a heroic are much more punishing than inside of Kara. All in all however, the two are fairly on par. Kara is basically a big heroic.
As for comments on your gear in particular, I have a few comments on gemming, and a few suggestions for direct upgrades. Drop the STR gems in slots on your gear, and drop the agi gems in your shield. Replace these with stam gems, or at least defense/stam hybrid gems. Ah bought green gems will honestly be fine for the time being, I wouldn't blow your bank on solid stars as most of those items will be replaced fairly quickly. The KoT legs may be worth SoEing up, as they will last you until either badge legs, or Wrynn from Curator. I'll list a few direct upgrades for you, some of which have already been listed.
Shoulders: Shoulderguards of the Bold. Shadow Labs (Regular) - Murmur (4th Boss)
Chest: Jade-Skull Breastplate. The Mechanar (Regular) - Nethermancer Sepethrea (2nd Boss)
Weapon: Grom'tor's Charge. SMV Questline. Begins with Enraged Spirits of Fire and Earth.
Shield: Crest of the Sha'tar. Sha'tar exalted. You'll get lots of rep from arc and mech runs for other gear.
Boots: Ironsole Clompers. Hellfire Ramparts (Regular) - Vazruden's Chest (3rd Boss). I know, I know, it sounds silly, but they're actually REALLY good for going into things initially. You can also do the Mana Tombs escort quest for Flesh Beast's Metal Greaves.
Ring: Elementium Band of the Senty. The Arcatraz (Regular) - Harbinger Skyriss (4th Boss)
Trinket: Adamantite Figurine. Shadow Labyrinth (Regular) - Blackheart the Inciter (2nd Boss)
Gun: Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer. Takes 375 engineering and a Nether to make, but it's BoE. You can pay the standard price of around 1k for it, or farm the mats out yourself and buy one for whatever the price of a Nether is on your server. I'd suggest farming it, as it's honestly not too harsh on the mats. You're a miner, so you PROBABLY already have some of it on hand.
There's a pretty easy to sort through list of direct upgrades for you. All are aimed specifically at being easily attained solo or by grouping regular instances/quests. Hope it helps.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 1:51am by FletusSanguine
Tanking heroics is most definitely more difficult than kara. The main difference between the two is the trash, and what you have to deal with it. Inside of kara, as was mentioned before, you will rarely be tanking more than one mob at a time. With CC as well as an OT and MT, outside of a CC or tank dying, the pulls are very controlled. You will be tanking multiple mobs inside of heroics, which means more damage, and there is more opportunity for you to make an error in tanking. With the healing present inside of kara, a stray mob for a few seconds isn't normally the end of the world. In a heroic, if you have a stray mob, it's normally going to be going for your healer, and he's the only one you have. Mistakes inside of a heroic are much more punishing than inside of Kara. All in all however, the two are fairly on par. Kara is basically a big heroic.
As for comments on your gear in particular, I have a few comments on gemming, and a few suggestions for direct upgrades. Drop the STR gems in slots on your gear, and drop the agi gems in your shield. Replace these with stam gems, or at least defense/stam hybrid gems. Ah bought green gems will honestly be fine for the time being, I wouldn't blow your bank on solid stars as most of those items will be replaced fairly quickly. The KoT legs may be worth SoEing up, as they will last you until either badge legs, or Wrynn from Curator. I'll list a few direct upgrades for you, some of which have already been listed.
Shoulders: Shoulderguards of the Bold. Shadow Labs (Regular) - Murmur (4th Boss)
Chest: Jade-Skull Breastplate. The Mechanar (Regular) - Nethermancer Sepethrea (2nd Boss)
Weapon: Grom'tor's Charge. SMV Questline. Begins with Enraged Spirits of Fire and Earth.
Shield: Crest of the Sha'tar. Sha'tar exalted. You'll get lots of rep from arc and mech runs for other gear.
Boots: Ironsole Clompers. Hellfire Ramparts (Regular) - Vazruden's Chest (3rd Boss). I know, I know, it sounds silly, but they're actually REALLY good for going into things initially. You can also do the Mana Tombs escort quest for Flesh Beast's Metal Greaves.
Ring: Elementium Band of the Senty. The Arcatraz (Regular) - Harbinger Skyriss (4th Boss)
Trinket: Adamantite Figurine. Shadow Labyrinth (Regular) - Blackheart the Inciter (2nd Boss)
Gun: Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer. Takes 375 engineering and a Nether to make, but it's BoE. You can pay the standard price of around 1k for it, or farm the mats out yourself and buy one for whatever the price of a Nether is on your server. I'd suggest farming it, as it's honestly not too harsh on the mats. You're a miner, so you PROBABLY already have some of it on hand.
There's a pretty easy to sort through list of direct upgrades for you. All are aimed specifically at being easily attained solo or by grouping regular instances/quests. Hope it helps.
Edited, Feb 13th 2008 1:51am by FletusSanguine
From what I see in the Armory today, you look ready to start on some of the easier Heroics as long as you have a good strong Healer. I think my stats were lower than yours when I started running Heroic Mech. I'd say that from the Heroics I have done, Mech and Bot are the easiest and then maybe Underbog, Slave Pens and Ramparts. Some mobs and bosses still hit pretty hard but the pulls in these places aren't too bad with decent CC.
I'd also say that you could manage some of the Kara fights though it would depend on how the rest of your group was geared as well.
Don't worry about trying to gear for TPS. If you can work out a good solid threat producing rotation then that should be good enough. Getting the +threat to glove enchant does help a little if you think you need the extra boost and I think it does make a small but noticeable improvement in threat generation. Also make sure that you and your group all have a threat meter addon because that will warn DPS when they need to scale back their threat based on yours. There will be fights where you be fighting to keep threat and other fights where the DPS would be hard-pressed to come near your threat.
I'd also say that you could manage some of the Kara fights though it would depend on how the rest of your group was geared as well.
Don't worry about trying to gear for TPS. If you can work out a good solid threat producing rotation then that should be good enough. Getting the +threat to glove enchant does help a little if you think you need the extra boost and I think it does make a small but noticeable improvement in threat generation. Also make sure that you and your group all have a threat meter addon because that will warn DPS when they need to scale back their threat based on yours. There will be fights where you be fighting to keep threat and other fights where the DPS would be hard-pressed to come near your threat.
Spent a couple of hours last night on group quests for the ring and trinket I mentioned in the OP, and subsquently went around gathering my head, shoulder and leg enchants. Blew a few hundy on gems to hit the 490 Def and 30% avoidance threshhold.
I have Jade Skull in my bags and can switch it in situationally.
On deck: Going to see if I can pick up ~1k HP over the next few days through enchants, re-gemming, etc. Not that I'm in any great hurry to embarass myself or cost guildies and raid members an inflated repair bill, but I'd like to start learning the encounters if I can, and reaching 12k unbuffed HP seems to be the most immediate obstacle. My Priest friend has been endlessly patient, waiting for me to get myself into some semblance of readiness. He got into his first guild raid (on his Priest) last night and sounds like it went pretty well.
In the hole: Gromtor's Charge chain. Start leaning on my Priest to mix in more Slabs (*shudder*) for Trinket and perhaps the Bold shoulders.
I have Jade Skull in my bags and can switch it in situationally.
On deck: Going to see if I can pick up ~1k HP over the next few days through enchants, re-gemming, etc. Not that I'm in any great hurry to embarass myself or cost guildies and raid members an inflated repair bill, but I'd like to start learning the encounters if I can, and reaching 12k unbuffed HP seems to be the most immediate obstacle. My Priest friend has been endlessly patient, waiting for me to get myself into some semblance of readiness. He got into his first guild raid (on his Priest) last night and sounds like it went pretty well.
In the hole: Gromtor's Charge chain. Start leaning on my Priest to mix in more Slabs (*shudder*) for Trinket and perhaps the Bold shoulders.
It took me about 15-20 runs for the Shoulders and Trinket from Slabs. Got them before I transfered servers to play with an old guild so it was done all with PUG groups. It sucked but like you I was willing to do what ever it took to get the gear I needed.
Sounds like you're on the right track.
Sounds like you're on the right track.
Scholar
38 posts
I'd do what you can to get to 12k in HP, through gemming or whatever. Grom'tor's Charge is the axe that I use, and it has a very nice stamina bonus. I actually use the Gladiator's Plate Shoulders that I got from doing BG's. I haven't looked at the Arena ones, but if they're anything like the Gladiator ones, they'll give you a nice stamina bonus. For my money (or honor pts.), those are the best shoulders you can go with pre-raid. The chest piece is a nice piece. The one I use is the Vindicator's Hauberk that you get as a rep reward from the Aldor. Gives you a nice +46 to your def rating. If you can find some other +def pieces, I'd recommend the Adamantite Plate Bracers for a stam boost. I have the Sha'tari Wrought Armguards, and I've tried both in Kara, and the Adamantite ones give a nicer stamina, IMO. To me, the 50 armor isn't a huge difference, as I'm at about 13.5k armor altogether and over 12k health unbuffed.
My advice for starting Kara, as I've recently started it myself, is to get in there with a good tank that's run it before and OT it the first few times through. You can learn the fights and tactics that way while you're gearing up, then you'll be better prepared to MT it once your gear is set. In my current gear, I've had no problems tanking Attumen, Maiden, and Moroes. The one where we had the most difficulty so far was the Wizard of Oz opera event, but I hear that's the toughest one you can get. It's all about tactics, gear, and good healing in there. Like I said, though, OT'ing Kara to start and learning it is a good way to go, both for gear and for learning the fights.
My advice for starting Kara, as I've recently started it myself, is to get in there with a good tank that's run it before and OT it the first few times through. You can learn the fights and tactics that way while you're gearing up, then you'll be better prepared to MT it once your gear is set. In my current gear, I've had no problems tanking Attumen, Maiden, and Moroes. The one where we had the most difficulty so far was the Wizard of Oz opera event, but I hear that's the toughest one you can get. It's all about tactics, gear, and good healing in there. Like I said, though, OT'ing Kara to start and learning it is a good way to go, both for gear and for learning the fights.
I started as MT in Kara with around 11k HP and around 14k in armor. I've since raised my HP to around 12.5k and armor to 15k and I do 'okay' on Prince but that fight is still really iffy for us. As far as Kara up to Curator goes, I'm fine with my stats right now.
1) survivability from avoidance and mitigation
2) TPS
always, always, always. a dead tank does the group no good. you won't really find any TPS bonuses from gear until at least T4. i personally have built up a decent set from 3 kara drops and some badge gear, and now i'm pushing 13.5k hp and 14.8k armor unbuffed, with 48% total avoidance. just a matter of patience. farm the hell out of heroic SP, mech, UB and ramps whenever you aren't raiding.
2) TPS
always, always, always. a dead tank does the group no good. you won't really find any TPS bonuses from gear until at least T4. i personally have built up a decent set from 3 kara drops and some badge gear, and now i'm pushing 13.5k hp and 14.8k armor unbuffed, with 48% total avoidance. just a matter of patience. farm the hell out of heroic SP, mech, UB and ramps whenever you aren't raiding.
Quote:
I started as MT in Kara with around 11k HP and around 14k in armor. I've since raised my HP to around 12.5k and armor to 15k and I do 'okay' on Prince but that fight is still really iffy for us. As far as Kara up to Curator goes, I'm fine with my stats right now.
I had (and still do =/) 11k hp and 12k armor when I started Kara. My defence is at 500+ and dodge/parry is at 32%. Been stuck at Moroes for a long time and now I'm bored...I guess it's time to recruit more dps'ers into the guild xD
When we first tried Moroes, it was pretty clear that I had my part of the fight down and I had no gear issues. It was pretty expensive waiting for the CC and DPS to get their act together so we could take him down though. :P
I was actually really scared doing Moroes my first time because I'd heard how new groups have trouble with him. We ended up doing him with only a single shackle and no other CC. We shackle whichever one is going to hit hardest (for example the Mortal Strike guy if he's there), I as OT tank 1 (usually the healer chick), the MT tanks Moroes + whichever of the remaining 2 is NOT a clothie, and everyone else burns down the remaining clothie as fast as possible. My job is to shield bash / concussion blow the healer's Greater Heal every single time, and to also shield slam Moroes a few times so that if he gouges MT he'll go to me. Then we just burn down the adds by doing all clothies first, then the harder hitting ones, then moroes. We got it this way on our first try ever.
Got home a little early last night and used some of my extra time to DL Omen and GEM. No sooner had I gotten on to get a feel how omen works and set up the calendar than an impromptu Kara raid started up, and after being asked about my gear and spec, I got drafted to OT.
Unfortunately we didnt get very far in. For whatever reason it was decided that we didnt have the right group makeup to take Moroes, and it would be pointless to down the Huntsman if we werent going any deeper than that. So... raid broke up pretty much before I had an opportunity to OT anything and really test my metal.
Guild has the place on farm, so I was VASTLY out-geared and out-tanked by the Druid MT. Was kindof rage-starved and probably ineffective.
What I did get a better feel for is my current TPS. I feel that my ability-rotation could use some refining (sunder/devastate is a hard habit to break), but as is I'm generally in the 600 (per min) range over the course of a fight. Was neglegable in Kara, as I said, but soloing my dailies and later in a pug Mech run, I was able to maintain a substantial lead on the meters.
Afterward... further re-gemmed further and enchanted a couple of newer items. Have HP up to ~11,700. Told my priest/enchanter buddy I was targetting 12k unbuffed and he (who typically runs around with <7k) LoLed.
Edited, Feb 14th 2008 6:58pm by soobooboo
Unfortunately we didnt get very far in. For whatever reason it was decided that we didnt have the right group makeup to take Moroes, and it would be pointless to down the Huntsman if we werent going any deeper than that. So... raid broke up pretty much before I had an opportunity to OT anything and really test my metal.
Guild has the place on farm, so I was VASTLY out-geared and out-tanked by the Druid MT. Was kindof rage-starved and probably ineffective.
What I did get a better feel for is my current TPS. I feel that my ability-rotation could use some refining (sunder/devastate is a hard habit to break), but as is I'm generally in the 600 (per min) range over the course of a fight. Was neglegable in Kara, as I said, but soloing my dailies and later in a pug Mech run, I was able to maintain a substantial lead on the meters.
Afterward... further re-gemmed further and enchanted a couple of newer items. Have HP up to ~11,700. Told my priest/enchanter buddy I was targetting 12k unbuffed and he (who typically runs around with <7k) LoLed.
Edited, Feb 14th 2008 6:58pm by soobooboo
soobooboo wrote:
Okay... thanks again to latest responders.
Suffice to say, the vendor gems are just a convenient stopgap. Not planning on doing anything I have any question about my readiness for before they're replaced.
Suffice to say, the vendor gems are just a convenient stopgap. Not planning on doing anything I have any question about my readiness for before they're replaced.
Usually the gems off the ah provide better stats at a cheaper or similar price as the vendor gems. If you can't afford the higher priced ones get the lower ones temporarily. Put a +9 sta gem into the slot until you can buy the +12 sta, etc.
soobooboo wrote:
Afterward... further re-gemmed further and enchanted a couple of newer items. Have HP up to ~11,700. Told my priest/enchanter buddy I was targetting 12k unbuffed and he (who typically runs around with <7k) LoLed.
Lol, hey man, you gotta start somewhere. You're almost to the point where the gains stop being so huge, as well. When you're in the 9-12k range, another 1,000 HP seems to come pretty quickly. That rate slows down after awhile. When I broke 15k unbuffed I was stoked. It felt like it took FOREVER.
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