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#27 Feb 18 2008 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
Okay time for my two cents, but the way this thread is going, I'm sure I'll be rated down for stating my opinion.

When I first hit 70 as elemental I got the full S1, and proceded to BGs. To my surprise, i could barely kill anything. Taking a while for 2.6 - 3.1k crits to kill anyone much less 2 shotting. I think taht if you do two-shot someone. It would because A. They're in lolgreens or B. Every possible hit I.E. "LB LO LO LB" crit for around 3k.
#28 Feb 18 2008 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
Axehilt wrote:
Mostly because compared to my specific shaman vs. mage example your math was off by an order of magnitude, so it felt like you were using statistics as a bludgeon to support your argument, where it should've been applied more logically.

Applied more logically? How is...

Gaudion wrote:
For the second time, no, you can't. Unless you're attacking pre-70 people or people still in blues and greens, you're not two-shotting anyone. Against an opponent in PvP gear, Chain Lightning, our most damaging spell, is going to crit for like 2000-2500. So 2250 (average crit) + 1125 (LO proc and average crit) + 2000 (LB average crit) + 1000 (LO proc and average crit) = 6375. That won't kill me, and I've only got 7700 life at the moment because I'm not even in full S1 yet. People in full PvP gear are going to be sporting 10k life easy. Even two of your top-end crits with full procs are not going to reach 10k. You can add a shock crit onto that and it's still not going to be 10k.


... not applied logically?

Quote:
You'd have had my total agreement if you took my 14% chance of two-shotting, multiplied it by the actual percentage of PUG BGers with sub-6.7k health and low resil, and came away with the incredibly low chance of actually achieving a two-shot in real world situations.

If you'd bothered to actually pay attention when you read my post you would have observed that I did make the allowance you're still clamboring for. I bolded it for you. The math I laid down was meant to be applied to people in full PvP gear or close to it, which is the only point at which I am going to take any PvP-oriented argument you care to make seriously. It's been my experience that most BG-ers do actually have at least a couple of PvP pieces on. HP under 7k is actually rarer than not. But since you insist on carrying on...

You don't have a 14% chance to two-shot people. You have a 14% chance to two-shot people every three minutes provided you choose a target with really crappy gear, then blow cooldowns and trinkets. And while we're on that subject, let's roll back to your Mage. 6.5k HP, right? And your top-end, trinkited crit with the Shaman is 3.1k?

3100 + 3100 + 775 (You said one LO proc, remember?) = 6975 damage. That would kill your Mage and anyone else under 7000 HP if it's flat damage. With Ice Barrier up though, your Mage would have 7500 HP (the shield's absorbtion) without a single point of +spell damage, and he's going to have some, so even more than that.

Now, I'm sure that won't satisfy you, so... what's next? Shall we assume Ice Barrier is down? Maybe we can have the Mage be Fire or Arcane? I don't know, you tell me. What other variables do we need to swing in your favor to make this plausible on a "regular basis"?
#29 Feb 18 2008 at 9:29 AM Rating: Default
All I can say is that I am at level 42 and looking back at PvP with him I can say two things about a shaman. One: some people dont always realize that shamans arnt the first targets of PvP because other classes think we suck it's because most shamans are either tauren or dreani (I know I spelled that wrong.) If you think about that those are the two largest races in the game therefore are much more likly to become PvP targets than say the 2ft gnome rogue that you just cant click on. Second: when I think of how fast I have been able to kill classes that everyone says kill us I just cant help but smile. Probably my biggest tip for PvP is if you are in any organized PvP like a BG or an arena (5v5) Stay with the group. that is where a shaman is meant to be WITH OTHERS. on a 1v1 situation we die because we lack the "panic button" that all other classes seem to have and we dont.

PS if I have stated common knowledge that I believed to be lost wisdom do not flame me
#30 Feb 19 2008 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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782 posts
I wouldn't exactly say "size" is exactly the MAIN issue why shaman's are singled out in PvP. Being large doesn't exactly "help" persay, but frankly in the mass cluster fights of BG's many ppl scroll thru their target selections by TABing thru selections or with simple macro assistance. This completely disregards actual point and click targeting, and more so focuses on class role/"squishiness" factor. Stratigicaly, you take out support classes first...namely Healers, and then maybe CC'ers.

I tend to cycle through til I find the closest "healer" class, hopefully a priest since they fit the "possible" healer AND they are soft targets. I don't care what race they are, nor do I care what spec (granted Shadow specs are a dead give away, but I'm still going after them)...I'm dropping them ASAP. Bottom line is, take away a healer, and even the hardest of druids or warriors are going down without support.

This being said, we and everyone else KNOWS shaman's "can" heal! Its not that we care what race they are, or even initially notice what spec they might be, we just know they are a "potential" healer...and a soft target >.> And a good pvp'r is going single out "soft" or support targets first. Which we're public enemy #1 usually.

Hell I make a "special" effort to give out WF care packages to Shaman targets. Course, I have a special place for Dreanei Shamans (right next to my @$$) :-D I like to remind them on the mistake they made, for rolling a HORDE perfected class! THIS IS MY HOUSE, RECOGNIZE! But, thats just me...
#31 Feb 19 2008 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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8,779 posts
Quote:
Now, I'm sure that won't satisfy you, so... what's next? Shall we assume Ice Barrier is down? Maybe we can have the Mage be Fire or Arcane? I don't know, you tell me. What other variables do we need to swing in your favor to make this plausible on a "regular basis"?


to be honest, for a shammy, assuming ice barrier is down really isnt a stretch. i mean, this is a class with a long range spammable offensive dispel after all.
#32 Feb 19 2008 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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2,396 posts
Quor wrote:
Quote:
Now, I'm sure that won't satisfy you, so... what's next? Shall we assume Ice Barrier is down? Maybe we can have the Mage be Fire or Arcane? I don't know, you tell me. What other variables do we need to swing in your favor to make this plausible on a "regular basis"?


to be honest, for a shammy, assuming ice barrier is down really isnt a stretch. i mean, this is a class with a long range spammable offensive dispel after all.

True, but that's not within the realm of what I would call a two-shot if you have to set up for it by purging a shield. Two shots is two spell casts. Either way, we're still assuming other variables such as the target having under 7000 HP and both of your crits hitting top-end, trinkets, procs... the list is nearly inexhaustable. The more favorable variables we have to add to this the greater the stretch it becomes.
#33 Feb 20 2008 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
tauren or dreani


Concerning that female draenei, which is what I play, aren't any larger than a night elf. In fact, Male night elves are larger than me.

Now you're experience is based on the 40 bracket for pvp. Now a lot changes at 70,especially pvp.

Quote:
special place for Dreanei Shamans


I thought we had something special....</3

Besides, if i'm going to spend hours upon hours of looking behind this character, I'd much rather the view not be disgusting.
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