I recently respeced from holy to prot for a spot as OT in our 3rd kara group. I was assigned the elite imp and all the small buggers that spawn. Everything went mostly fine, but our healers (holy pally and holy priest) usually went out of mana around 10-15%, leading to wipe. I suspect that has to do with a bit low dps, and maybe a bit too fast killing the elite imp.
But as I was tanking all the imps, i noticed that i ran out of mana fairly quick. I have around 5k mana and 10.5k health unbuffed.
My armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ghostlands&n=Duruk
The tactic I used was spamming consecrate in front of illhoof, so as to pick up most mobs, and running around hitting the ones that got away, watching fireballs to see that all were coming to me.
My question is: Is there any other way to do him that preserves mana a bit more? Should i run and hit mobs and not spam consecrate? When I went oom, it was really hard getting the imp back to me and off healers/dps.
Any tactics you would recomend?
Cheers :)
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Tanking IllhoofFollow
forwald wrote:
I suspect that has to do with a bit low dps, and maybe a bit too fast killing the elite imp.
If DPS isn't killing the chains fast enough, he heals. Can make the fight drag on forever.
forwald wrote:
My question is: Is there any other way to do him that preserves mana a bit more? Should i run and hit mobs and not spam consecrate? When I went oom, it was really hard getting the imp back to me and off healers/dps.
I've seen a paladin do it and end at half mana. I'll have to ask him what he did.
Having tanked Illhoof, both as the Illhoof tank and the Imp tank, that's pretty much it. Actually the imp adds are more a nuisance than anything and not having anyone tank them, just a Warlock spamming Seed of Corruption, works great. Be prepared to use some mana pots during that fight cause you probably won't be taking enough damage to keep your mana pool high, unless you are the one tanking Illhoof, then that may change.
I used to have mana issues when I tanked these (now we just aoe them down with no tank, but our overall gear level is higher). I was holy spec in my spell damage gear, but we had another tank for the imp.
Anyway....
I'd suggest using judegment of wisdom on Kil'rek and possibly seal of wisdom too (when I was tanking I put it up on illhoof) and be prepared to use mana pots.
If you find Kil'rek doesn't hit you too hard you could swap in some items with higher mp5 on them to help with this fight. Also rank 1 consecration can be handy as it will cause less threat than full rank, but costs a lot less mana.
Overall we find it easier now just to ignore dpsing Kil'rek, focus just on Illhoof and the chains (other than your aoe-er) and let Kil'rek die to aoe damage. You lose the weakened debuff, but it makes coordination much simpler as you're not trying to time when Kil'rek dies.
Anyway....
I'd suggest using judegment of wisdom on Kil'rek and possibly seal of wisdom too (when I was tanking I put it up on illhoof) and be prepared to use mana pots.
If you find Kil'rek doesn't hit you too hard you could swap in some items with higher mp5 on them to help with this fight. Also rank 1 consecration can be handy as it will cause less threat than full rank, but costs a lot less mana.
Overall we find it easier now just to ignore dpsing Kil'rek, focus just on Illhoof and the chains (other than your aoe-er) and let Kil'rek die to aoe damage. You lose the weakened debuff, but it makes coordination much simpler as you're not trying to time when Kil'rek dies.
If your dps are clickers, make them have set up a macro specifically for targeting/attacking the chains when they come up.
Make sure you have a lock doing seeds on the imps, make sure healers don't allow anyone to die in chains.
Make sure you have a lock doing seeds on the imps, make sure healers don't allow anyone to die in chains.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I've only done this fight once successfully but I remember we had two people doing the jobs you've been assigned - one for the spawning imps and one for Kil'rek.
Also for this fight, we had 3 healers so we had less dps than you and it was quite long. I popped a couple of mana pots so I'm guessing here but I think it must have taken 6-8 minutes.
Your team sounds like it would have at least one more dps than us and possibly two so you should be doing it quite quickly.
Oh and I assume all your team are taking flasks/elixirs, mana oil for casters' weapons, and food buffs for the fight? If not, they should because it really does help. I get about +50 heal and +24mp5 from food and elixirs plus whatever superior mana oil gives.
Also for this fight, we had 3 healers so we had less dps than you and it was quite long. I popped a couple of mana pots so I'm guessing here but I think it must have taken 6-8 minutes.
Your team sounds like it would have at least one more dps than us and possibly two so you should be doing it quite quickly.
Oh and I assume all your team are taking flasks/elixirs, mana oil for casters' weapons, and food buffs for the fight? If not, they should because it really does help. I get about +50 heal and +24mp5 from food and elixirs plus whatever superior mana oil gives.
Maulgak wrote:
Actually the imp adds are more a nuisance than anything and not having anyone tank them, just a Warlock spamming Seed of Corruption, works great.
This is usually how we do it, course we have 3 healers, not 2. I suspect trying to keep a lock up, the 2 tanks up and the guy in chains up is going to tax 2 healers a bit more.
you do not need 2 spec'd tanks after Opera, this will gimp your raid.
as Ret i tank Kil'rek and rank 3 consecrate the imps(keeps aggro from warlock and healers). do NOT use JoW on Kil'rek, he should go down in ~10secs. chains should go down in ~5secs or be bubbled/blocked out.
all mana users, including Ret pallies, need to use mana pot rotation. if you haven't learned how and when by Illhoof, you will fail.
as Ret i tank Kil'rek and rank 3 consecrate the imps(keeps aggro from warlock and healers). do NOT use JoW on Kil'rek, he should go down in ~10secs. chains should go down in ~5secs or be bubbled/blocked out.
all mana users, including Ret pallies, need to use mana pot rotation. if you haven't learned how and when by Illhoof, you will fail.
Tynuv wrote:
I'd suggest using judegment of wisdom on Kil'rek and possibly seal of wisdom too (when I was tanking I put it up on illhoof) and be prepared to use mana pots.
I use mana pots, I just find that i still go oom. Pots are never off cooldown from the first time I chug one at around 50% mana.
Tynuv wrote:
If you find Kil'rek doesn't hit you too hard you could swap in some items with higher mp5 on them to help with this fight. Also rank 1 consecration can be handy as it will cause less threat than full rank, but costs a lot less mana.
I have two parts of the pre-70 gear witch makes consecrate cost 15% less mana, I'll try that.
Tynuv wrote:
Overall we find it easier now just to ignore dpsing Kil'rek, focus just on Illhoof and the chains (other than your aoe-er) and let Kil'rek die to aoe damage. You lose the weakened debuff, but it makes coordination much simpler as you're not trying to time when Kil'rek dies.
We're not there quite yet, I'm afraid. But I'll keep it in mind until later.
Cheers :)
tommyguns wrote:
you do not need 2 spec'd tanks after Opera, this will gimp your raid.
Sp no place for a pallytank after Opera? I'm not yet geared enough for MT-duties.
tommyguns wrote:
as Ret i tank Kil'rek and rank 3 consecrate the imps(keeps aggro from warlock and healers). do NOT use JoW on Kil'rek, he should go down in ~10secs. chains should go down in ~5secs or be bubbled/blocked out.
So we should take a break while I respec? Or bring in another dps?
tommyguns wrote:
all mana users, including Ret pallies, need to use mana pot rotation. if you haven't learned how and when by Illhoof, you will fail.
I start chugging mana pots at around 50% and they are seldom off cooldown on boss fights. Should I start earlier?
Cheers.
I start chugging mana pots when I start spending mana. Like, 2k mana down = mana pots. I'm impatient and they're cheap, but it means that you start the cooldown earlier.
i like to use the combat mana pots. as i pvp quite a bit, i have plenty of tokens and they stack to 10.
so they are free as i would normally delete my extra tokens.
i dont know how good they are for a healer. but for a Ret with Seal of Blood. they are plenty strong to keep my mana topped off. (they are 1 tier lower then Super mana pots)
so they are free as i would normally delete my extra tokens.
i dont know how good they are for a healer. but for a Ret with Seal of Blood. they are plenty strong to keep my mana topped off. (they are 1 tier lower then Super mana pots)
forwald wrote:
I have two parts of the pre-70 gear witch makes consecrate cost 15% less mana, I'll try that.
Also might want to use the Libram that increases damage done by your Consecration (I forget it's name). Using that with your set bonus should help a lot, even if you downgrade your Consecration, though that will net a smaller portion of the Libram's effect I believe.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
I've seen a paladin do it and end at half mana. I'll have to ask him what he did.
Thanks :)
I tried to do him as MT today, and the adds as well. We had a dps warrior on the elite imp. We still wiped, but mostlu due to our holy priest getting sacrificed and dying quickly.
This time I had no mana problems tho.
But I noticed something during that fight I've never seen before, I was 50% ahead on aggro over our top dps. I'm using omen, and the OT was on the elite imp. Does my consecrate aggro from all the smaller imps go towards aggro on Illhoof? As I had no mana or threat problems, I let seal of vengance stack, then judged seal of light to help healers. Is it just me or does pallys dish out an insane amount of threat with vengance up?
I'm pretty new to prot (I even lvled from 60 as holy. but my gf mage was with me, so i never really noticed how slow it could be), so please forgive newbie questions.
Cheers.
omen cant tell apart mobs of the same name. supposedly they (blizz) are going to release the source code to tell them apart. but i have no idea how reliable that info is or when they plan to do it.
so when you do fight mobs of the same name aoe will throw the threat meter off completely.
so when you do fight mobs of the same name aoe will throw the threat meter off completely.
Vengeance should put out more threat over a longer fight, but not THAT much. It was a combo of all your spells.
More specifically to your first point though, I'm honestly not sure how the threat meters calculate threat. I see myself WAY ahead of DPS on the threat meter when I have multiple targets, the more targets the higher I am, which leads me to believe it's showing more than just what you have on your current target. I don't know for sure though, so hopefully someone with a better understanding can enlighten the both of us :)
EDIT: Ruen beat my post, hehe. Thanks for that bit of info.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 3:52pm by Maulgak
More specifically to your first point though, I'm honestly not sure how the threat meters calculate threat. I see myself WAY ahead of DPS on the threat meter when I have multiple targets, the more targets the higher I am, which leads me to believe it's showing more than just what you have on your current target. I don't know for sure though, so hopefully someone with a better understanding can enlighten the both of us :)
EDIT: Ruen beat my post, hehe. Thanks for that bit of info.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 3:52pm by Maulgak
The RuenBahamut of Doom wrote:
omen cant tell apart mobs of the same name. supposedly they (blizz) are going to release the source code to tell them apart. but i have no idea how reliable that info is or when they plan to do it.
so when you do fight mobs of the same name aoe will throw the threat meter off completely.
so when you do fight mobs of the same name aoe will throw the threat meter off completely.
Well, Illhoof has a unique name, and he was my target the entire fight. I didn't think I'd be that far ahead on threat, even if dps switched to chains from time to time.
BTW, does anyone know if casters get mana from JoW? Or is it just melee and shots?
Cheers, and thanks for all the good answers.
forwald wrote:
BTW, does anyone know if casters get mana from JoW? Or is it just melee and shots?
Cheers, and thanks for all the good answers.
It does. Procs off wanding to if they run out of mana.
If you're a BE don't forget to use your racial. Seriously. That 322 mana you can get from Arcane Torrent is actually really handy.
And if you're having trouble with Ilhoof himself healing too much during the chains, get a Hunter or Warrior to put MS on him. Makes the fight a good bit faster.
And if you're having trouble with Ilhoof himself healing too much during the chains, get a Hunter or Warrior to put MS on him. Makes the fight a good bit faster.
Jungabon wrote:
If you're a BE don't forget to use your racial. Seriously. That 322 mana you can get from Arcane Torrent is actually really handy.
I'm a dwarf, so it doesn't apply :/
Jungabon wrote:
And if you're having trouble with Ilhoof himself healing too much during the chains, get a Hunter or Warrior to put MS on him. Makes the fight a good bit faster.
Ok, I'll remember that.
On a side note, we did everything up to Curator yesterday with me as OT in just under 3 hrs, and with no wipes :)
Cheers :)
not a tank, but I've found there is not need to tank the imps. Have the main tank tank both illhoof and his sidekick imp. the other imps are destroyed by seeds. But we use 2 locks, and this is much, much easier. with one lock, you may need different strategy. We do kill kilreck, then move onto illhoof. Macro for chains of course. And we use 3 healers. I'm a shaman, and chain heal works wonders here. We keep everyone close and within the candles so the imps stay in close and get hit by the seeds.
Sadly, there is little use for 2 tanks in Kara aside from a few places. Atunmen (I can never spell name right), Moroes, trash leading up to Maiden and Opera event, Opera event if it's romeo and julianne, Netherspite, and trash leading up to Prince. oh and one pull leading up to Curator
Edited, Feb 15th 2008 10:03am by thrashering
Sadly, there is little use for 2 tanks in Kara aside from a few places. Atunmen (I can never spell name right), Moroes, trash leading up to Maiden and Opera event, Opera event if it's romeo and julianne, Netherspite, and trash leading up to Prince. oh and one pull leading up to Curator
Edited, Feb 15th 2008 10:03am by thrashering
last 2 weeks i did this on my pally i tanked it all.
as we are getting to the end of people in my guild willing to run kara.
so it's hard to find a second tank
forcing me to solo tank most of kara.
still have a feral druid for moe and netherspite
but 90% of the time he stays dps
kinda makes it fun :)
as we are getting to the end of people in my guild willing to run kara.
so it's hard to find a second tank
forcing me to solo tank most of kara.
still have a feral druid for moe and netherspite
but 90% of the time he stays dps
kinda makes it fun :)
2 posts
This is what my team usually does on Illhoof. We put one of our warlocks on the imps and I (holy pally w/1600+ healing) focus heal him. This keeps imp aggro and dps on one person instead of the whole group. We put an off-tank on Illhoof's minion and focus all DPS on him.
SanitysEdge wrote:
we are getting to the end of people in my guild willing to run kara.
Have they not seen the new badge loots in 2.4? I mean, seriously. Kara is worth the 3-4 hours it takes to run the whole thing again.
Meh, who am I kidding, I just wanted to post so I could post this.
hehe actually once the loot table was announced
i'm having troubles getting my paladin in kara now
cause all the healers and tanks want to go
i'm having troubles getting my paladin in kara now
cause all the healers and tanks want to go
thrashering wrote:
Sadly, there is little use for 2 tanks in Kara aside from a few places. Atunmen (I can never spell name right), Moroes, trash leading up to Maiden and Opera event, Opera event if it's romeo and julianne, Netherspite, and trash leading up to Prince. oh and one pull leading up to Curator
Edited, Feb 15th 2008 10:03am by thrashering
You just mentioned 7 of the bosses, which is hardly 'not much use'. There is also several large pulls (the ghosts up near Illhoof, Aran and Netherspite) that are alot easier if you have two tanks. Two tanks can make the trash alot quicker as they can work together and chain pull mobs so you have two on the go together, and two raid members who can taunt mobs off squishy dps when things go a bit wrong.
We're currently clearing SSC and TK and I would only now consider going into kara as the only tank, and only because I'm a tankadin so can hold aggro on multiple mobs. I don't think anyone in the guild would consider sending a warrior or druid in there as a solo tank and I would only do it for fun to prove I can (kind of like aoe tanking moroes and all his adds).
Edited, Mar 4th 2008 6:57pm by Chamual
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