Why do Hunter do this.......Follow

Armor type is irrelevant. If the leather item provides the Hunter an upgrade then there should be no deferring to another class simply because Hunters can wear mail. Hunters are ranged DPS, Armor is pretty much last amongst the things we care about on any given piece of gear.

Same with Paladins and armor types. The best healadins wear a mix of armor types, from cloth to plate. Why? Because that's how they get to be good at their role. Their job is to stand back and heal, not to get beat on and use a high Armor value to mitigate that damage. The armor type is irrelevant, what matters is the +Heal, MP/5, INT, etc. A healadin who waits for plate drops for all his gear is going to be well behind an equally geared mate who forgets about armor type and looks for what will make him a better healer.

Oh I so hoped those "who should get which loot" discussions had remained in the past and we would discuss more interesting things nowadays.

To sum it up:

- The group sets the loot rules. There is not one way to distribute loot, there are many. All of them have pros and cons.
- There are several rules which are common on your server / in your surroundings. If you want to use different rules, talk about that before you start the instance thus giving anyone the chance to get out of there or to accept the rules.

I have seen PUGs using masterloot in 5mans; I have seen DKP Systems in 10man raids and I have seen usage of need/greed rolls in Mount Hyjal (though on boss loot everyone passed and the items where auctioned for DKP afterwards, but the raid trusted each other enough to have loot options on need/greed rolls).

I you feel betrayed out of your pixels, fine. But it is not the best idea to post that on this forum as such storys are almost always extremely uninteresting and boring. Either they are ignored or people get worked up on those things and start lengthy uninteresting threads...

The OP is way off base, as previously stated numerous times.

I do love the fact that if a Hunter had made a similar complaint about, say...a warrior taking Mail; the post would have been delegated immediately to the Huntard Files.

A word of advice, if you plan on raiding never QQ like this over lost rolls. Most raiding guilds will /gkick for this kind of crap.

A Hunter should NEVER loot on a leather item if two of the three following are true:
1. A rogue is in the party
2. A druid is in the party
3. It is an upgrade in ANY way for the rogue or druid.*

* EVEN if it's a BIGGER upgrade for you.

Here's why: The rogue and druid are limited to their gear selection. The ONLY Pieces they can use are leather. They don't have the luxury of a "choice" like a hunter does. Here's a hypothetical scenario: Hunter and rogue are running an instance and boss 1 drops leather dps wrists. It's an upgrade for the rogue and the hunter. The hunter rolls and wins. Boss 2 comes around and mail dps wrists drops. Only the hunter can use it (No shammy in this party) and it's an upgrade from the leather wrists. The rogue doesn't have the option to take the mail. Hunter walks away with two pieces and the rogue walks away with nothing. Classic case of Huntardism.

Now don't get me wrong, if it's no way usefull to the rogue, by all means the hunter can go for it. Only when rule three is false can a Hunter go for any leather. It's common courtesy.

Let's change your example around a bit.

Hunter and rogue are running an instance and boss 1 drops leather dps wrists. It's an upgrade for the rogue and the hunter. The hunter passes, because boss 2 has a drop that is mail and just as much of an upgrade. Boss 2 is downed and cloth drops.

Now the hunter passed on an item that was just as much(if not more) of an upgrade to him as it was for the rogue, and got boned because there might have been a better drop on an upcoming boss. Who wins the need roll is just luck, just like what actually drops from the boss, but by saying the hunter isn't allowed to roll on the upgrade is taking away his ability to even have a chance at the upgrade.

I'm not in the business of "what might happen" the facts are simple, the item is leather, the upgrade is just as good for the rogue as it is for the hunter, the feral druid, hell throw in the fury warrior too. It dropped off of this boss we just killed. I don't care what the next boss might drop, who is to say we will even make it to the next boss? That hasn't happened yet. I am not going to deny someone their right to a chance to win an upgraded piece of equipment based on the idea that there might be a better drop later.

In your scenario of unfairness at least the rogue had a chance to win the upgraded item. Following your rules of looting, in a different scenario the hunter has no shot at an upgrade at all. So how is that more fair?

I completely dissagree with synn on his last post. Haka is right- if there is a leather item and a similar mail item in the same instance, and there is a rogue or druid in the group, the hunter should pass on the leather, and hope for the mail. If there is no one in the group who wants the leather, by all means, take it and still hope for the mail.

Don't take a piece of leather away from a rogue or druid when there is a chance of another upgrade that they CAN'T wear droping.

Now if the hunter was going into an instance with the intent to get a leather piece because no other mail item is available, then the hunter needs let the leather wearers know.

Let's use a real example for this one: Karazhan.

Nightbane drops two chestpieces: Chestguard of the Conniver (leather, rocks.), and Scaled Breastplate of Carnage (mail, sucks for hunters).

That Mail breastplate is one of the very few mail pieces available for hunters before content beyond Kara (up until 2.4), but many hunters just don't take it because it has no agility, and many dungeon blues are better than it. But that leather piece is a REALLY nice upgrade from most blues, and has a bunch of stats that hunters need. I understand that a rogue or druid would get upset about losing that to a hunter, but since the hunter doesn't have any other viable choice, they need to just deal with it.

I'm on the fence of the whole issue.

If it is a large upgrade for me then I'll roll. If it is only a small upgrade I'll pass.

It also depends on how well I know the people in question too though. If it is a random pug then to hell with em. Somebody I know well and run with a lot I'm a lot more likely to pass.

We can make a new example. Boss 1 drops leather bracers. Hunter passes because rogue gets priority despite it being a better upgrade for the hunter than the rogue, simply because it is leather. So the rogue gets the bracers, boss 2 gets downed and a rogue specific pair of bracers drop that are better than the first pair.

Now the hunter, not only has to watch the bracers that were a better upgrade for him get vendored, but he has to relish in the fact that he never even had a chance at that upgrade simply because he can wear mail.

How is that fair?

We can do what if scenario's all day and night going back and forth. But for me, I am not going to deny someone the chance at an upgrade based on what if scenarios. I am going to be fair to all parties at the time of the drop. If I am tanking a group with a fury warrior, rogue, hunter and a feral druid(yeah I know that's a 5 man party, but let's just pretend we are badass and don't need a healer lol) and a great piece of leather drop that's an upgrade for all of them. To me the most fair thing is to let them all have a chance at the piece. It's not fair to deny someone a simple chance at an upgrade because of what they can wear.

Like I said, I can respect someone that is willing to give up their chance freely, but I am not going to forcibly remove their chance by telling them no they can't roll on an upgrade.

I get exactly what you are saying. But what you are doing is putting a player based Armor restriction on a class that otherwise doesn't have an armor restriction. Basically put, as long as there is a rogue or druid in your group, the hunter has no chance at the upgrade since it is leather, so he might as well not even run with you.

You're penalizing a class for doing nothing wrong. That's not fair in my eyes. It's not the hunters fault that the rogue can only wear leather, so why should the hunter get penalized because of another classes restrictions.

Please properly credit your quotes. You've lumped a statement by me in with a reply by mcfreckle, and I'm sure neither of us want to have our words associated with the other.

I'm curious why you wouldn't wear leather into BGs? I equipped two pieces for some time until I found upgrades which were mail. The high STA and AGI/AP made them very suitable for PvP. I don't take nearly as much melee damage as I do ranged, so Armor value is nearly meaningless to me.

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For getting shived in the back, I find standing on a Snake Trap to be a wonderful cure. Snake Trap, Flare, and my BG Trinket plus BW make for a pile of crying Rogues. Snake Traps are even better than Wing Clip, they sneak up behind and trigger the trap and I just run straight forward while they are slowed. After I've got range I keep it with Intimidate, Concussive, and the usual kiting tactics.

Try rolling on a leather item in Kara vs. a Rogue or Druid. See if they invite you back afterwards.



Vest of Vengeance: Check the socket bonus and you'll see the +dodge. Seeing that says to me "Rogue gear" not "hunter gear". So no this item is not "equally" important to both classes, more important for a rogue.




Agreed. Like this poster said, a hunter has more gear options with Mail. Wait for a coilfang instace for more mail options to drop. Use quest gear or AH "of the bandit" Mail greens until the instance Mail items drop.


Edited, Feb 18th 2008 12:37pm by Scolariman