Hmm, I think before I QQ about possible nerfs ect.. I will wait for the patch to actually come out.
Do we need a viable CC? for heroics? No. We just need tanks that dont die when their looked at, that can tank at least 5 mobs w/o loosing aggro and have 50k health so they dont die from said heroic mobs. etc etc etc.
Seriously tho, if they would just BUFF the totem we have for CC last for 15 seconds regardless of damage (yah they would have to figure a way we could target it) it would be plenty. BOOM HAPPY SHAMMIES!
I havent ever played elemental spec, but Ive played against them on 4 other 70's. Yeah, their burst damage needed to be nerfed (tho sharing cooldowns isnt how id suggest it being done, thats a quick bandaid to stop bleeding, but it isnt stiches to make it heal)but in order to do that, blizz should also include something to bring the yo-yo back up.
It will be a huge buff to not have my shammy rage go poof 2 seconds after i hit it. well maybe not huge, but at least something.
I too have run into the "shammies can only heal" attitude on the new server I'm on.
My old server Illidan, EVERY 25 man I was in, and most 10 mans, had a enhance shammy, for the melee/tank group. who doesnt want their melee dps to have 10% more AP, plus strength of earth, and WF or GOA (woot tank with lots o extra dodge!) as well as a slight steady healing tick?
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Quote:
Shaman's do not need CC.
Lets have a look at the main CC classes.
Mage, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter.
4 classes that deal with CC primarily, also the only 4 classes that only have 1 role in the game (DPS)
Shaman's can Heal and DPS, giving shaman's CC would take away any chance these other classes have of getting into groups.
Lets have a look at the main CC classes.
Mage, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter.
4 classes that deal with CC primarily, also the only 4 classes that only have 1 role in the game (DPS)
Shaman's can Heal and DPS, giving shaman's CC would take away any chance these other classes have of getting into groups.
We aren't in dire need of a "sap" or "sheep" length CC, just a CC that incapacitates for 5-7 seconds for pvp.
edit : And the reason I went resto is because my guild had no place for me on the raiding teams as a non-CC DPS.
Edited, Feb 27th 2008 12:16am by Draeneipally
If Blizzard does not wish to give us CC I could deal with that, but we need some kind of pvp tools and abilities to keep up with other classes better in pvp.
Weather it be improving our shock spells affects, or lowering there cool downs, increasing the charges on some of our shields and improving the damage of one of them, better totems for pvp that work better and possibly have a way to prolong there duration. Some new abilities would also be welcome, if they don't want to give us a CC how about a True silence? or some way for us to avoid a solid a bit of damage similar to rogues do with there cloak of shadows (ethereal form).
There are plenty of things blizzard can do to help shaman, CC is not the only answer, they know this, but I really don't know if shaman is on there list of priorities at all.
I wouldn't be surprised they don't mind not improving us for PvP because there aren't so many shaman in the higher ratings, but at same time shaman is least played class so maybe thats how the justify it?
I highly doubt they have a personal vendetta against us, i don't think we are hated by blizzard just neglected and misunderstood. We don't want to be bad we just want a hug...
Weather it be improving our shock spells affects, or lowering there cool downs, increasing the charges on some of our shields and improving the damage of one of them, better totems for pvp that work better and possibly have a way to prolong there duration. Some new abilities would also be welcome, if they don't want to give us a CC how about a True silence? or some way for us to avoid a solid a bit of damage similar to rogues do with there cloak of shadows (ethereal form).
There are plenty of things blizzard can do to help shaman, CC is not the only answer, they know this, but I really don't know if shaman is on there list of priorities at all.
I wouldn't be surprised they don't mind not improving us for PvP because there aren't so many shaman in the higher ratings, but at same time shaman is least played class so maybe thats how the justify it?
I highly doubt they have a personal vendetta against us, i don't think we are hated by blizzard just neglected and misunderstood. We don't want to be bad we just want a hug...
Other than CC, i can pull some ideas out to improve each spec in pvp.
Lightning Shield buff - 10 charges, 30% chance on hit to stun the target for 3-4 seconds. Great elemental buff
Improved Frost shock - Enhancement talent that has 50% chance to freeze the target in place for 3-4 seconds.
Make ghost wolf instant cast - untalented and replace it with improved frost shock, and make it dispell polymorph,stun,snare etc.
Lightning Shield buff - 10 charges, 30% chance on hit to stun the target for 3-4 seconds. Great elemental buff
Improved Frost shock - Enhancement talent that has 50% chance to freeze the target in place for 3-4 seconds.
Make ghost wolf instant cast - untalented and replace it with improved frost shock, and make it dispell polymorph,stun,snare etc.
Scholar
45 posts
Quote:
Shaman's do not need CC.
Lets have a look at the main CC classes.
Mage, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter.
4 classes that deal with CC primarily, also the only 4 classes that only have 1 role in the game (DPS)
Shaman's can Heal and DPS, giving shaman's CC would take away any chance these other classes have of getting into groups.
Lets have a look at the main CC classes.
Mage, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter.
4 classes that deal with CC primarily, also the only 4 classes that only have 1 role in the game (DPS)
Shaman's can Heal and DPS, giving shaman's CC would take away any chance these other classes have of getting into groups.
Let's look at the healing classes that have CC then :P
Priests: shackle, fear (this will become even more popular with WotLK)
Druids: cyclone, sleep (limited but still CC)
Paladin: Turn Undead (becoming an incapacitate)
So...your point was what?
Shaman do not necessarily need to have the best CC in the game, but something would be nice, even apply it to elementals only, that would at least give us something limited yet useful in certain situations, while staying true to the class.
Quote:
I'm surprised by ther nerfs to Ele Spec, especially on the PVP front.
Are Ele Shamans THAT OP??
Are Ele Shamans THAT OP??
I wish I could find a WWS of a skilled, raid-geared Elemental shaman that compares him with skilled, raid-geared DPS classes. I think that would put things more into perspective for me.
As it is, I do feel a bit overpowered in PVE. It's extremely rare that I see someone do more damage than me, and while I'm doing that much damage I am tossing offheals and fairly significant buffs to the party.
For PVP I can do some crazy damage in pug BGs where I'm not focused on, but I think I'd be hard pressed to do the same in serious Arena play. So while I think we're somewhat balanced for PUG BGs like AV (well...assuming you're not enhancement) I don't feel it's a great class for arenas.
Vaeliorin wrote:
RuinatorVek the Eccentric wrote:
Shaman's do not need CC.
Lets have a look at the main CC classes.
Mage, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter.
4 classes that deal with CC primarily, also the only 4 classes that only have 1 role in the game (DPS)
Shaman's can Heal and DPS, giving shaman's CC would take away any chance these other classes have of getting into groups.
Lets have a look at the main CC classes.
Mage, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter.
4 classes that deal with CC primarily, also the only 4 classes that only have 1 role in the game (DPS)
Shaman's can Heal and DPS, giving shaman's CC would take away any chance these other classes have of getting into groups.
So...all shamans should spec resto? Is that your point? Because I don't know if you've ever seen an enhancement shaman try to heal in their enhancement gear, but it's pretty pathetic. Oh, and sure, that elemental shaman could heal decently in their elemental gear...except then they wouldn't have any mana to DPS with.
I have seen plenty of Enhancement shammy's do good DPS in normal and heroic instances.
So you don't get the first choice for DPS if CC is needed, Boo Hoo, neither do warriors, but I don't cry that I need a CC.
If no CC is needed Enhancement and Elemental Paly's have a good shot at getting in cause they have very good damage and bring even better utility to the group (totems), yet you still want to take away a rogues chance at getting a group becuase you think Shaman's aren't versatile enough?
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html
Huge changes in the patch notes:
Huge changes in the patch notes:
Quote:
Call of Thunder: (Rank 5) now gives 5% critical strike chance.
Earth Shield: Mana cost reduced roughly in half, and charges reduced from 10 to 6.
Elemental Focus: This buff will no longer be removed when Shamanistic Focus is triggered.
Flametongue Weapon damage effects for rank 3 and above now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.
Flametongue Totem damage effects now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.
Ghost Wolf: Cast time reduced to 2 seconds, down from 3.
The Global Cooldown of all Totems has been reduced to 1 seconds, down from 1.5 seconds.
Healing Grace: This talent now reduces the chance your spells will be dispelled by 10/20/30%.The resistance to being dispelled modifier from this talent now applies correctly to Water Breathing.
Rockbiter Weapon: Tooltip and error messages have been adjusted slightly.
Shamanistic Rage is now a Physical ability instead of a Magic spell, and thus is no longer dispellable. It now reduces all damage taken by 30% and gives your successful melee attacks a chance to regenerate mana equal to 30% of your attack power. This lasts for 15 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown.
Stormstrike has a new icon.
Totem timer icons will now show up under your player portrait when you cast totem spells. Right-clicking a totem timer icon will destroy that totem.
Toughness will now also reduce the duration of movement impairing effects on you by 10/20/30/40/50%.
Tremor Totem now pulses every 3 seconds, down from 4.
The Shaman spell Fire Nova Totem will no longer sometimes detonate without doing any damage.
Earth Shield: Mana cost reduced roughly in half, and charges reduced from 10 to 6.
Elemental Focus: This buff will no longer be removed when Shamanistic Focus is triggered.
Flametongue Weapon damage effects for rank 3 and above now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.
Flametongue Totem damage effects now also reduce healing done to the target by 50% and lasts 5 seconds.
Ghost Wolf: Cast time reduced to 2 seconds, down from 3.
The Global Cooldown of all Totems has been reduced to 1 seconds, down from 1.5 seconds.
Healing Grace: This talent now reduces the chance your spells will be dispelled by 10/20/30%.The resistance to being dispelled modifier from this talent now applies correctly to Water Breathing.
Rockbiter Weapon: Tooltip and error messages have been adjusted slightly.
Shamanistic Rage is now a Physical ability instead of a Magic spell, and thus is no longer dispellable. It now reduces all damage taken by 30% and gives your successful melee attacks a chance to regenerate mana equal to 30% of your attack power. This lasts for 15 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown.
Stormstrike has a new icon.
Totem timer icons will now show up under your player portrait when you cast totem spells. Right-clicking a totem timer icon will destroy that totem.
Toughness will now also reduce the duration of movement impairing effects on you by 10/20/30/40/50%.
Tremor Totem now pulses every 3 seconds, down from 4.
The Shaman spell Fire Nova Totem will no longer sometimes detonate without doing any damage.
One thing I was always jealous of is many other caster classes get new spells to do damage with in there trees. Mages get quite a few, Slow from Arcane, PyroBlast Blast Wave and Dragon's Breath from Fire. Warlocks get Unstable Affliction from Affliction, Shadowburn Conflagrate and Shadow Fury from Destruction. Priests get Mind Flay and Vampiric Touch from Shadow.
I know we have Elemental Mastery and Totem of Wrath and if you spec in Restoration deep enough you can get Nature's Swiftness, but I always kind of wished we also got a couple more damage spells with useful abilities tagged on them.
I was thinking we kind of lack in both fire and ice spells even though many of our talents improve these spells, which I know is ment to make our flame and frost shock better, but I was thinking these two spells would be neat for the elemental shamans.
First one I came up with was Frostbite (i dunno if there is a spell or talent with this name already but I liked the name). I figured Frostbite would be a 1.5 second cast that dealt Lightning Bolt quality damage but has a cool down of 30 seconds, when it hits enemy it lowers enemies attack, movement, and casting speed by 50% for 5 seconds or until hit by another magic damage spell, but it would also apply a debuff making all magic spell do 10 or 15% more damage for the next 5 seconds.
The second spell I thought of was Molten Blast, a spell that was considered during the beta for wow, but was yanked before it came live for whatever reason. This spell would be on a 15 second cool down but would have a 2.5 second cast and would do about twice the damage of a Lightning Bolt.
With these spells added I would also like to see changes done to Lightning Overload, this would give the same bonus to our lightning spells but also have a 20% chance to make Frostbite stun the enemy and give Molten blast a 10% chance to increase spell damage by the shaman by 10% for 15 seconds.
I think these two spells would give shaman more variety in spells and some interesting tools for both PvE and PvP without being to overpowered.
The way i saw it, we are not like a mage that can master either fire or ice, but we have some abilities with both, but because of this we can not control it the same, while they both would provide powerful abilities and damage output, it would take shaman some time to use ready himself to unleash these spells.
anyhow I figure be good place to put these ideas for you to check out... yes i know probably just a dream but hey be kool if blizard ever did anything like this for us in a patch.
let me know what you think, i don't think these are perfect but something to think about if anything ^^
I know we have Elemental Mastery and Totem of Wrath and if you spec in Restoration deep enough you can get Nature's Swiftness, but I always kind of wished we also got a couple more damage spells with useful abilities tagged on them.
I was thinking we kind of lack in both fire and ice spells even though many of our talents improve these spells, which I know is ment to make our flame and frost shock better, but I was thinking these two spells would be neat for the elemental shamans.
First one I came up with was Frostbite (i dunno if there is a spell or talent with this name already but I liked the name). I figured Frostbite would be a 1.5 second cast that dealt Lightning Bolt quality damage but has a cool down of 30 seconds, when it hits enemy it lowers enemies attack, movement, and casting speed by 50% for 5 seconds or until hit by another magic damage spell, but it would also apply a debuff making all magic spell do 10 or 15% more damage for the next 5 seconds.
The second spell I thought of was Molten Blast, a spell that was considered during the beta for wow, but was yanked before it came live for whatever reason. This spell would be on a 15 second cool down but would have a 2.5 second cast and would do about twice the damage of a Lightning Bolt.
With these spells added I would also like to see changes done to Lightning Overload, this would give the same bonus to our lightning spells but also have a 20% chance to make Frostbite stun the enemy and give Molten blast a 10% chance to increase spell damage by the shaman by 10% for 15 seconds.
I think these two spells would give shaman more variety in spells and some interesting tools for both PvE and PvP without being to overpowered.
The way i saw it, we are not like a mage that can master either fire or ice, but we have some abilities with both, but because of this we can not control it the same, while they both would provide powerful abilities and damage output, it would take shaman some time to use ready himself to unleash these spells.
anyhow I figure be good place to put these ideas for you to check out... yes i know probably just a dream but hey be kool if blizard ever did anything like this for us in a patch.
let me know what you think, i don't think these are perfect but something to think about if anything ^^
jmfmb wrote:
I always kind of wished we also got a couple more damage spells with useful abilities tagged on them.
jmfmb wrote:
I was thinking we kind of lack in both fire and ice spells
I agree.
jmfmb wrote:
First one I came up with was Frostbite (i dunno if there is a spell or talent with this name already but I liked the name).
There's a mage talent called Frostbite.
jmfmb wrote:
I figured Frostbite would be a 1.5 second cast that dealt Lightning Bolt quality damage but has a cool down of 30 seconds, when it hits enemy it lowers enemies attack, movement, and casting speed by 50% for 5 seconds or until hit by another magic damage spell, but it would also apply a debuff making all magic spell do 10 or 15% more damage for the next 5 seconds.
Interesting, though I'd tweak the numbers. The magic boost would go to the enemy, if I understand correctly?
jmfmb wrote:
The second spell I thought of was Molten Blast, a spell that was considered during the beta for wow, but was yanked before it came live for whatever reason. This spell would be on a 15 second cool down but would have a 2.5 second cast and would do about twice the damage of a Lightning Bolt.
I like the concept of a high-damage, mana-inefficient spell to use on Clearcasting procs.
jmfmb wrote:
With these spells added I would also like to see changes done to Lightning Overload, this would give the same bonus to our lightning spells but also have a 20% chance to make Frostbite stun the enemy and give Molten blast a 10% chance to increase spell damage by the shaman by 10% for 15 seconds.
Makes sense.
jmfmb wrote:
I think these two spells would give shaman more variety in spells and some interesting tools for both PvE and PvP without being to overpowered.
Well, it wouldn't be overpowered if the numbers were tweaked.
jmfmb wrote:
The way i saw it, we are not like a mage that can master either fire or ice, but we have some abilities with both, but because of this we can not control it the same, while they both would provide powerful abilities and damage output, it would take shaman some time to use ready himself to unleash these spells.
anyhow I figure be good place to put these ideas for you to check out... yes i know probably just a dream but hey be kool if blizard ever did anything like this for us in a patch.
let me know what you think, i don't think these are perfect but something to think about if anything ^^
anyhow I figure be good place to put these ideas for you to check out... yes i know probably just a dream but hey be kool if blizard ever did anything like this for us in a patch.
let me know what you think, i don't think these are perfect but something to think about if anything ^^
I like it. It's night, I'm sleepy, and somewhat whimsical, but I think I like this stuff...
Quote:
Interesting, though I'd tweak the numbers. The magic boost would go to the enemy, if I understand correctly?
I probably wrote it wrong, it definitely would need to be tweaked, but I would like some interesting spells, note I didn't provide mana cost or actual damage cause I really wasn't sure =P
Cool downs could also probably be tweaked, but I want talents that give us damage spells and I want more fire and ice spells lol
anyhow I am glad you liked them for the most part
ruinatorvek wrote:
I have seen plenty of Enhancement shammy's do good DPS in normal and heroic instances.
So you don't get the first choice for DPS if CC is needed, Boo Hoo, neither do warriors, but I don't cry that I need a CC.
If no CC is needed Enhancement and Elemental Paly's have a good shot at getting in cause they have very good damage and bring even better utility to the group (totems), yet you still want to take away a rogues chance at getting a group becuase you think Shaman's aren't versatile enough?
So you don't get the first choice for DPS if CC is needed, Boo Hoo, neither do warriors, but I don't cry that I need a CC.
If no CC is needed Enhancement and Elemental Paly's have a good shot at getting in cause they have very good damage and bring even better utility to the group (totems), yet you still want to take away a rogues chance at getting a group becuase you think Shaman's aren't versatile enough?
draeneipally wrote:
We aren't in dire need of a "sap" or "sheep" length CC, just a CC that incapacitates for 5-7 seconds for pvp.
edit : And the reason I went resto is because my guild had no place for me on the raiding teams as a non-CC DPS.
edit : And the reason I went resto is because my guild had no place for me on the raiding teams as a non-CC DPS.
edit : I also like those ideas J. Someone had a creative muffin forbreakfast
Edited, Feb 29th 2008 2:01am by Draeneipally
I will never go resto if i can help it. I just dont like being pushed to play a certain style. We should have the tools to do anything that any end game material requires.
Now, as to this rumor that shamans suck at pvp, I dont do much arena right now and I've not got much exp in it, but in any bg, I destroy things. I'm an elemental shaman, and I come out on top of killing blows and dmg 7 out of 10 games. I'm never below third place. I kill almost anything one on one. I'm not super geared, but I am up there. I only have 2 pieces of glads gear now cause i bought the furious elements paudrons with the badges and a helm of the tides blue item. I can easily put my glads gear back on. I'm getting a name made for myself now as when I go up to the front lines, there are people shouting out to keep me alive. Its completely possible.
As for a fix, the best idea I've heard for a shaman is a kinda "ride the lightning " move. What it does is when you use it, you get an 8 yard circle to place within a distance and you "blink" there with a lightning bolt coming down from above. It doesn't hit for much but stuns for 1 sec. It breaks snares and combat as well. I really wish to see this move in game though.
But the moral of the story is that its possible for shamans to be completely viable in pvp.
Also, i have a question. In 2.4, ghost wolf starts at 2 seconds cast. what happens when you put two talent points in it?
Edited, Mar 2nd 2008 7:52pm by Soljourner
Now, as to this rumor that shamans suck at pvp, I dont do much arena right now and I've not got much exp in it, but in any bg, I destroy things. I'm an elemental shaman, and I come out on top of killing blows and dmg 7 out of 10 games. I'm never below third place. I kill almost anything one on one. I'm not super geared, but I am up there. I only have 2 pieces of glads gear now cause i bought the furious elements paudrons with the badges and a helm of the tides blue item. I can easily put my glads gear back on. I'm getting a name made for myself now as when I go up to the front lines, there are people shouting out to keep me alive. Its completely possible.
As for a fix, the best idea I've heard for a shaman is a kinda "ride the lightning " move. What it does is when you use it, you get an 8 yard circle to place within a distance and you "blink" there with a lightning bolt coming down from above. It doesn't hit for much but stuns for 1 sec. It breaks snares and combat as well. I really wish to see this move in game though.
But the moral of the story is that its possible for shamans to be completely viable in pvp.
Also, i have a question. In 2.4, ghost wolf starts at 2 seconds cast. what happens when you put two talent points in it?
Edited, Mar 2nd 2008 7:52pm by Soljourner
Soljourner wrote:
In 2.4, ghost wolf starts at 2 seconds cast. what happens when you put two talent points in it?
It becomes instant.
The flametoungue MS has been removed for now.
Mistress Draeneipally wrote:
The flametoungue MS has been removed for now.
Good. Maybe they'll actually try something worthwhile next.
Quote:
Good. Maybe they'll actually try something worthwhile next.
Agreed
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