HP and Avoidance, What to do?Follow

I am pretty happy about how my gear has been progressing and now am getting into a optimizeation phase rather than acquisition phase. I am running around 14k unbuffed with 15.5k AC and about 50% total avoidance. I am writing this for advice and in giving it please assume that 490 Def and uncrushability are not an issue any more.

When it comes to gemming, enchantment and equipment choices it generally comes down to stamina, avoidance or in some cases AC. With 50% total avoidance a 1% increase in avoidance decreases damage taken by 2%, now if my hp are 15k is it reasonable to apply the 2% to that and say 300HP ~= 1% avoidance and use that as a basis for choosing gems etc? This formula automatically weights HP more if they are lower and less as you get more, at 10K HP 1% Avoidance is only worth 200HP.

For example the Crystalforge Shoulderguards have 2 Red slots and a 4 Sta bonus. It seemed pretty straight forward for me to gem 2 SSoE for 24 Sta/312HP, but gemming 2 Red +8 Dodge Gems gets .85% avoidance and 4 Sta/52HP bonus. This amount of avoidance decreases incoming damage by 1.7% so could be(?) equated to 265HP, adding 265 and 52 we get 317 which is very close to 312. Is this a coincidence or does Blizzard use this type of reasoning when adding slot bonuses?

As you progress the mobs hit harder and harder, at what point can you say that your HP pool is large enough to be fairly safe? I would suggest this is somewhere around 4 times the mobs std damage for mobs you fight singley and about 8 times if you fight multiples, once you reach this are you better of taking mitigation than HP? For example if you have 17K HP raid buffed and are fighting mobs that hit for 3k unless your healer screws up you will not die, at this point avoidance would seem to be the choice, or is it?

Using this logic some of the enchants that I would never have considered like the 240AC enchantment on gloves now don't seem so bad, the AC decreases damage by about .87% with 16K AC now 15K Hp x .87% = 130Hp, which just happens to be the same as the 10 Sta Armor Kit which is the best Sta enchant for the item.

So, do I keep slapping in SSoE's to most of my slots and pump up the HP or do I throw in some green def/sta and some red +8 Dodge gems to up my avoidance.

Thanks

Kang

I said to disregard defense and uncrushability because I have well over 490 defense and am past 102.4% without the libram, I swap out the Justicar Gloves for Iron Gaunts of the Maiden if I need to. With raid buffs and the like I am well over 15K, maybe over 16k. This is not about the ability to tank boss X or boss Y, this is about maximizing the utility of your gear rather than slapping SSoE's into every slot. I will try to link my armory.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Icecrown&n=Kanguran

65% shield block? are you counting redoubt? because you cant. or am i missing something :|
edit: looked at the dudes armory, he's got quite a bit more than 50% avoidance and is uncrushable so NM! sorry.

Edited, Feb 8th 2008 2:34pm by KTurner

Sadly Kanguran, I couldn't really tell you if you want more armor or hit points as you're gear surpasses mine by quite a bit.

I can however recommend going to Maintankadin, they have several paladins posting there who are tanking tier 6 content and can probably help you along.

It is true that, mathematically, that would be a reasonable comparison, the problem comes down to what kills tanks.

Damage spikes.

Going from 50% to 51% avoidance may decrease the overall damage that you take by 2%, it shouldn't be an issue unless your healers are running out of mana.

What kills tanks is spike damage. While increasing avoidance will decrease the frequency of spike damage, it will not change the fact that spike damage eventually can and will happen.

Stam is the only counter to spike damage. If you're at 14500 hp and get spanked triple-tapped for 5k a pop, you're going to die. Swap a Moroes trinket for a 51 stam Darkmoon Faire card and boom, you live.

Aim for about 50-55% avoidance, and then stack stam whenever possible, and spell damage if you need threat.

Meh, your spell power is a little low but your avoidance stats are fine, I wouldn't focus too much on them at this point. You're running about the same stats I am http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tichondrius&n=Tyneside and I had to tank in TK last night, so you should at least be good enough to handle any TK/SSC boss. Your threat output may be a bit low (mine is and I have more spell power) but you're certainly thick enough once the raid buffs go up.




(P.S. Before it comes up, yes I know I have reckoning still. This is my alt and I still need to finish a lot of quests with her.)

I always added in the mob's 5% chance to miss into my (complete) avoidance, along with that dodge and parry. (When you are missed, you are avoiding damage)

Keep in mind that when you dodge, you create no aggro..and dont take any damage...leading to no mana. If the mob is hitting hard enough for you to have that "high" dodge..and you still dont have problems with mana..then keep up what your doing..but I have found that keeping dodge around 20%..parry around 17%..and stacking block VALUE that it helps lots on threat..and gives me mana. (although I'm just a tad under 16k unbuffed....(21.5k raid buffed)..and my spell dmg is ~450)

To the OP, instead of the previous poster...I'd advise to stack stam as much as you can..keeping your spell damage at a level where you dont have problems with aggro..and your complete avoidance at a level where you can parry as much as you can...dodge the rest...and still have a nice mana pool..from getting mana from the heals on you.

My stats..(only into T5 right now) are what I said above.... and ~525 block value.

I always seem to not take too much damage in t5 content (keep in mind I aoe tank or offtank mostly)..and I have no problems with threat..and always have a nice amount of mana.


P.S. When I main tank, I have another set of gear that puts me at 22% dodge..19% parry (pally t5 shoulders ftw :P)...and like 24% block...with about 500 block value....about 400 spell dmg...and the same amount of health..and I never have mana problems there or aggro problems either...So I guess it kinda depends on the situation...Main tanking = avoid a bit more....offtanking or aoe tanking = get hit a bit and block more, to keep some mana.


EDIT: = P.S.

Edited, Feb 10th 2008 12:42am by theblackcasper