There is something that bothers me about using evasion against a raid boss. Here is the story as I see it, please correct if I am wrong:
I start with 32.2% dodge chance. I understand that a boss miss rate against me is 4.4%, and my chance to parry is another 4.4%. So together I have 41% chance of avoiding the attack, 5.6% chance of being critted, 15% crushed and almost 39% of being hit in a civilized fashion.
When I use evasion, my avoidance reaches 91%. I still have 5.6% chance of being critted, and 3.4% of being crushed, is that right? That sounds somewhat grim - most likely every hit that lands will kill me.
Now what happens if I have some resilience? For example 40. Is the chance for being critted 4.6% now, with a chance for being crushed growing to 4.4%?
I wonder how much that is actually worth.
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Boss attack table, evasion and resilienceFollow
From what I gathered, resilience is more of a PVP thing not PVE... I may be wrong though
I just have to wonder why you are getting attacked enough by bosses to make you think about this so much.
Im not sure but for a warrior you kinda push away the crushing blows and then the crits.. So it might be the same for the rogue. that you will have less a chance to get critted with more avoidaince you have.
Last time I read up on mechanics like this, they (EJ) was still trying to determine whether the combat rolls are singular or multiple and yes it does make a difference.
And no, you don't get Resilience for PvE because you shouldn't be pulling aggro with Vanish, especially on a Raid Boss. Chances are a SPriest will pull before you do if everyone is going all out.
And no, you don't get Resilience for PvE because you shouldn't be pulling aggro with Vanish, especially on a Raid Boss. Chances are a SPriest will pull before you do if everyone is going all out.
/kick tank..
or
/gquit
or
/gquit
If you EVER have to use evasion on a boss then you, your tanks, your healers, or all of these suck terribly. Or something just went terribly wrong; in which case you are already screwed so there really is no point in even using evasion.
Evasion tanking is useful on the last 15 seconds of the red beam on Netherspite.
So, 10 answers, and only 1 actually trying to address the question somehow.
You guys have too much time or what?
I am really not interested in what you have to say about threat. I am asking about boss attack table against a rogue.
Here is a hope this bump will bring somebody who knows a thing about it.
You guys have too much time or what?
I am really not interested in what you have to say about threat. I am asking about boss attack table against a rogue.
Here is a hope this bump will bring somebody who knows a thing about it.
this is a question you should ask a tanking class... since they would have a MUCH beter idea (feral druid being closest since they lack shields)
but it should never be an issue... what boss inspired this question to begin with i wonder?
but it should never be an issue... what boss inspired this question to begin with i wonder?
Yes.
It's also completely worthless for you, as has been discussed, but if you get hit with Evasion up it'll be a crit or a crushing.
It's also completely worthless for you, as has been discussed, but if you get hit with Evasion up it'll be a crit or a crushing.
Information is rarely worthless. Or are you saying that resilience is worthless? Well, a reduction of crit chance is always good, as is any defensive stat. I have been hit many times by different mobs and bosses, and I kind of dislike being one-shot by crits. The most common bosses are those that whirlwind, but there are many specific cases.
But actually the question was more provoked by my new vindicator belt, which happens to also be the best DPS belt available to me right now.
But actually the question was more provoked by my new vindicator belt, which happens to also be the best DPS belt available to me right now.
Quote:
Information is rarely worthless. Or are you saying that resilience is worthless? Well, a reduction of crit chance is always good, as is any defensive stat. I have been hit many times by different mobs and bosses, and I kind of dislike being one-shot by crits. The most common bosses are those that whirlwind, but there are many specific cases.
But actually the question was more provoked by my new vindicator belt, which happens to also be the best DPS belt available to me right now.
But actually the question was more provoked by my new vindicator belt, which happens to also be the best DPS belt available to me right now.
It is worthless because if you look at any decent guild, you'll see that none of the non-tanks will be taking that much direct damage outside of AoEs from Bosses...unless they aggro. If a raid boss' AoE kills you (that quickly), gaining/stacking resilience isn't going help you anyways. Why would you need to go on the defensive? A few fights require gear sets and HP checks but none require Resilience stacking.
Like RPZip and Mongoose stated, if you are getting hit with Evasion up, its probably going to kill or take a big chunk out of you regardless of Resilience or not. Druid tanks have this issue similarly because of no shield and no "oh ****" talents that Warriors have.
I am not saying you are not right - I am saying that I don't care at the moment if it should happen or not. I am simply interested in knowing how it works.
Nobody really said it clearly so far, but I am getting a general impression that what I wrote in the original post is true. That is frankly all I wanted to know.
Nobody really said it clearly so far, but I am getting a general impression that what I wrote in the original post is true. That is frankly all I wanted to know.
Wytryszek wrote:
I am not saying you are not right - I am saying that I don't care at the moment if it should happen or not. I am simply interested in knowing how it works.
Nobody really said it clearly so far, but I am getting a general impression that what I wrote in the original post is true. That is frankly all I wanted to know.
Nobody really said it clearly so far, but I am getting a general impression that what I wrote in the original post is true. That is frankly all I wanted to know.
I think RP already said it - but if you get hit with evasion up on a boss, it'll be either crushing or crit. But what the rest of us want to know is why you're even worried about it?
Quote:
I am not saying you are not right - I am saying that I don't care at the moment if it should happen or not. I am simply interested in knowing how it works.
Nobody really said it clearly so far, but I am getting a general impression that what I wrote in the original post is true. That is frankly all I wanted to know.
Nobody really said it clearly so far, but I am getting a general impression that what I wrote in the original post is true. That is frankly all I wanted to know.
You can look it up at EJ, I know they have at least one detailed thread about what you are asking, I want to say its under a tanking class' section but can't be sure. If Raid Bosses behave the same way as Player-Characters then there is one under Rogue/Hunter (not sure which one) about attack tables. But thats not likely to be the case.
Wytryszek wrote:
Now what happens if I have some resilience? For example 40. Is the chance for being critted 4.6% now, with a chance for being crushed growing to 4.4%?
I wonder how much that is actually worth.
I wonder how much that is actually worth.
Yes, because critical hits are higher up on the attack table to push off than crushing blows. Getting resilience will decrease your chance to be critically hit, but you still do not have enough avoidance to have pushed off crushing blows, so now your crushed chance has increased.
Say, if you had exactly 94.4% avoidance, so the only possible thing a boss could do was to crit you. If you then had resilience and reduced the chance that you would be critically hit, you have not increased your avoidance, but lowered the boss's chance to crit you. That means that since the boss has less than 5.6% chance to crit you, but you still have only 94.4% of total avoidance, the open gap between the crit chance and your avoidance is filled with some crushing blow chance.
Thanks for the answers!
ThomasMagnum wrote:
I think RP already said it - but if you get hit with evasion up on a boss, it'll be either crushing or crit. But what the rest of us want to know is why you're even worried about it?
You know, a nice example presented itself last night. I tanked Temporus in heroic BM from 35%, and actually survived. Not that I wish to repeat this any time soon, but it happens.
In my opinion, rogue who claims he never gets hit is probably not playing at all.
Edit: These guys in heroics are lvl72. So no crusing attacks at least.
Edited, Feb 14th 2008 12:25pm by Wytryszek
a) Resilence does reduce crit chance in PvE, tho PvE tanking stats outweight impact of resilence.
b) For all mindless crowd yelling "Get omen" - Yes, rogue tanking was useful but you were playing "Hello Kitty Adventure Island" in these days.
For example I used to prep+evasion tank Instructor Raz in Naxx in short periods when MC breaks or trainee dead and rogue had way more chances to survive than MT.
b) For all mindless crowd yelling "Get omen" - Yes, rogue tanking was useful but you were playing "Hello Kitty Adventure Island" in these days.
For example I used to prep+evasion tank Instructor Raz in Naxx in short periods when MC breaks or trainee dead and rogue had way more chances to survive than MT.
I guess we have decent healers - I've never needed to tank. I also thought that's why we have an OT...
Quote:
Information is rarely worthless. Or are you saying that resilience is worthless? Well, a reduction of crit chance is always good, as is any defensive stat.
Well a rogue is dps....defensive stats for a raiding rogue seems useless to me.
If that vindicator belt is the best available DPS belt for u....u will take it for dps not for resi.
As for the whirlwind aoe...get an addon like big wiggs and don't worry about resilience,if u'r not there>> whirlwind can't kill u.
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