Elemental Raiding talents/ cast sequence (from a non-shaman)Follow

Absolutely right. No reason at all to take EotS for PvE.

If you think he needs to respec, this is my Elemental raiding build. Not saying he needs to spec that exactly, but you can use it as a reference.


Not really. You actually shock very infrequently as an Elemental Shaman in PvE. Not saying Reverberation isn't good for PvE, because it is, but it's a talent you can afford to lose points in if you need them elsewhere.


Buffing your fire totems is good for PvP, but won't really serve you well in PvE beyond level 50. You're going to want to drop Totem of Wrath for your fire totem 100% of the time in instance parties and raids.


Unrelenting Storm is far less necessary than Storm Reach. No Elemental build should ever be without Storm Reach. Period.


Mana Spring Totem, Wrath of Air Totem, Totem of Wrath. There is no earth totem for casters, so skip it unless there's a melee in your group, in which case give them Strength of Earth or Stoneskin, or if there is a mob around that fears drop Tremor Totem.

After that... just spam Lightning Bolt. That's it. There's no rotation to speak of for pure DPS. Lightning Bolt is going to do more damage and cost you far less mana over time. However, spamming Lightning Bolt means you have to stay rooted since it has a cast time. If a battle forces you to go mobile (for example, when you have to move for Prince's infernals or run out for Shade's Arcane Explosion), then you should Flame Shock and let that tick while you run to whever you need to be. And as soon as you get there, go right back to spamming Lightning Bolt.

Chain Lightning can net you some good DPS, but you have to be very careful about when you cast it in Kara and beyond. If you break a CC or crit and/or Overload on targets the tanks don't have enough peripheral aggro on, nine people are going to be very unhappy with you. Also, if you are casting it in any kind of sustained situation, I would recommend only doing so when Elemental Focus procs, otherwise it'll eat too much of your mana as it typically costs two-to-three times as much as Lightning Bolt.

Edited, Feb 8th 2008 1:19am by Gaudion

Yeah, you go DPS Prince in Kara and tell me Storm Reach is not a must.

There are plenty of fights where you want to stand at max range and mob AoE's typically top out at about 30 yards, so Storm Reach is the difference between getting nailed and not getting nailed. Storm Reach also helps you avoid lapses in DPS by requiring you to reposition yourself less, especially noticeable on fights like Curator.

i have yet to have a problem on either of those fights =P

I didn't say it is not nice, but it is not needed either, and a fight like prince is a rather poor example if you know what your doing there, in an area like gruul's lair i can see what you mean a bit more, but it is still not needed, altho PvP i find it quite necessary.

Point is, if you want to maximize you over all pve dps, this is one of the points you can shave off, if you prefer the hit to unrelenting storm by all means go for it, but this is a luxury not a necessity.

Thanks guys,

Gaudion, your build is pretty much what I was going to recommend.

Also, I think I'll be going with the Storm Reach suggestion as the shammy in question seldom has mana problems as it is, and the improved efficiency he'll be getting from more crits due to Tidal Mastery should keep him going.

As to chain lightning, I'll tell him just to use it when we're doing AOE pulls...

like i said before prince is a poor example of why you would need storm reach, you say we need to back up when he aoe's well this is false, his aoe is 20 yards, our nuke range is 30 yards, why do we need storm reach to avoid it?

Now if you said it was infernals then that makes a tad bit more sense, but if you and your guild knows what they are doing you use the door strat for prince which means you and your caster groups never move and neither should your tank.

Prince's nova has a 30 yard range. Go look it up. Better yet, go fight Prince yourself and make sure you stand inside of 30 yards. Oh, and, uh... make sure you come back here and let us all know how that work out for you.

Suddenly I have an even stronger feeling that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

An Elemental Shaman shouldn't be out-DPS'ing a Rogue over the longhaul. If that's happening, you guys need to work on your Rogue. On Prince, yeah, since the Rogue has to reposition, but that's not really fair. That's like comparing your Elemental Shaman's DPS to the Rogue's on Shade, or to a Warlock or Mage on Illhoof.

There's a useful four-letter word, and you're full of it.

Because you don't know what you're talking about.


There's also a lot of ego involved. People like knowing more than other people, they don't like knowing less, and they like other people who don't know to come to them asking for information. It's basic human nature.

I really can't reach any other conclusion than that you're lying, because if you weren't you would know things like the range of Prince's nova and you wouldn't be telling people the things you are. Yes, this is a place for the exchange of ideas and information. Opinions are valid, but there are still some things that are inherantly true and some that are inherently false. Telling people they won't get hit by Prince's nova if they stand at 30 yards or closer is false. Period. There's also no way you can reasonably dispute the fact that they would be better off if they didn't have to move. Period.


Immaterial. They both have talents that increase their range, and I dare you find me one that doesn't take them. Everyone that has talents that increase the ranges of their spells takes them. There is a reason for that. They are invaluable.

It's not needed but for raiding you want every advantage you can have.

edit : I took storm reach for my pvp and raid build.




Completely false, the infernals spawn between prince and the door sometimes. In fact it wiped us once today.


Edited, Feb 10th 2008 1:34am by Draeneipally

Enfeeble (Phases One and Two)
Periodically casts Enfeeble on five characters chosen at random, excluding the current target (the tank). Enfeeble reduces maximum health to a single hit point for about seven seconds. While this effect is active, any damage causes instant death. Healing effects do nothing, but the lost health returns after this undispellable effect ends. Enfeeble is followed by a Shadow Nova, so enfeebled characters must stay 30+ yards away from Malchezaar, and watch out for Infernals. Vampiric effects such as Siphon Life ignore Enfeeble. This does not hit pets.
So you'd be fine at 30 yards..

Shadow Nova (All phases)
Malchezaar's Shadow Nova has a three-second cast, a range of 25–28 yards, deals about 3000 shadow damage, and includes a knock-back. This attack can be outranged by healers and ranged damage-dealers, so even if they are enfeebled it does not cause much concern. Enfeebled melee must get out of range; however as long as they start running right away they have plenty of time to avoid the Shadow Nova. This attack can be resisted. During Phases One and Two, Malchezaar casts this roughly four seconds after Enfeeble. During Phase Three, he casts it without preliminaries.

This is ridiculous.

Alright, let's assume for a second that Prince's nova is 28 yards (even though it's consistently listed and addressed as 30). Or that Prince's hitbox that jmfmb keeps yammering on about nets you an extra 1-2 yards. You guys are talking about a 1-2 yard range in which you have to position yourself with pinpoint accuracy on a second's notice, and if you're off by more than a yard or two you get nailed.

Here is what I really want to know: What's the point? When you save yourself two points by not taking Storm Reach, where are putting them? Where's this huge benefit that cries out for talent points from the depths of your very souls? Unrelenting Storm? You really think six yards of range is a good trade-off for (let's pick an easily obtainable Kara stat of 400 intellect) 16 MP/5? If not there, then where else? This is the burning question that I really want to see answered.