opinion on SL SLFollow

im currently doing the 41/7/11 build. im starting to pvp some more and was thinking of the SL SL temp. i heard and ive seen that it is hard to kill, but was wondering how the damage output was from that build. I am very used to dark pact really like it, so i was wondering how your mana pool did without it(yeah i know i still have lifetap) was also wondering how it did in instances.
thanks

Ive been raiding with 41/0/20 for a while and some pvp, but now I dont have a consistent raid run (im just put on stand-by even though Im a top DPSer...). I couldnt stand how fast a hunter rogue or warrior would just own me so I respeced to Sl/Sl. Now Im able to embarrass most of the AV hunters and sit in the middle of big groups getting smashed yet still make it difficult to die.

Yesterday I was in an AV where a hunter and lock were both trying to kill me, I just put siphon life on everything, dotted the lock and hunter then stayed close to the hunter and drained. I used my felhunter to beat on the lock with him eating my debuffs at the same time. I killed the hunter with like 1000hp left, then I used a health stone. The lock was at about 3/4 life and me at 1/4 life. I refreshed dots and just drained. I dropped to about 500 hp but stayed there. It was so low I couldnt see the green anymore. I just watched the locks health drop in amazement untill he died too.

Definately the highlight of my Wow night.

As for SL/SL in instances I've never tried but you lose alot of the improved damage spells from the affliction tree to gain survivability.

I came from a full destruction spec and a full affliction spec and finally went SL/SL.

As destruction and deep affliction i could top dps in instances and raids but when to pvp i was just too squishy and would go down fairly easy unless in a 5v5 team the damage output was nice.

After respecing to sl/sl im not going back because most of my time playing my lock is spent pvping now.

Your damage output is fairly good in arena due to the fact that you are draining life more than in a full affliction spec.

You basically outlast ur opponents in arena if you have a healer and for a 2 dps team you can still nuke and last without a healer.

A locks role in an arena team is not solely to do damage its main focus should be croud controlling the healer spell locking etc and with sl/sl u can keep all dots on 2-3 targets and croud control at the same time.

SL in bg
Survivability is the focus. It works best either in situations where you're in a large group vs another large group, or against a few enemies (1-2). Dark pact really isn't necessary, as you'll rarely need it in bg (asside from iDotting large groups - in which case you can afford to life-tap). The three reasons I prefer Affliction Destro to SL/SL (despite currently being specced sl/sl for arena) is 1) UA, 2)iHoT, and 3)Shadowburn. It gets annoying an mana inefficient when you have to recast instant dots - it also cuts your dps because you won't have another ticking dot (coa/cot/cow/coe). Instant HoT is also missed - the increased survivability make rogues and warriors easier, although fighting good hunters becomes a problem. You also lack the ability to do decent instant burst damage from shadowburn. *Shrugs* personally I can do just as well without it, but it's preferred for arena, so imo everyone should get a bit of experience with it.

SL in raids
Leave. Even in heroics, you'll most likely be the lowest dps in the group - at a point where your cc abilities won't compensate. For dps, switch to affl demo sac, affl destro, or destro demo sac. The ONLY thing you should be running in heroic level plus as a sl/sl lock would be Leo (SSC).

SL pet arena/bg
In my opinion, you would benefit more from having your felpuppy out for the +70 resistance, paranoia, and anti-caster abilities. Also, your succi will only be untouchable until you actually use her, in which case she dies in a few hits from a warrior (btw 2-4). You can instantly resummon, but imo it's a waste of time - as their healer will be completely free in the meanwhile (compared to a felpuppy).

Lol, for raiding, Sl/Sl is weak sauce.

No one should ever encourage it.

I can see the interest of this SL/SL build but isn't it a huge problem to lose improved Howl of Terror?

I haven't pvped much with my warlock (just 69 now) but I would guess that an instant PBAoE fear every 15-20 sec (if my memory serves me well) would be too great to pass.

And if I go so deep as to take improved Howl of Terror, then why not also take Unstable Affliction. So my question is: is SL/SL really better than 43/7/11 in an arena setting?

Thanks,

nostra

SL/SL is THE spec for 2v2 and 3v3. 'tis sad to say but simply put, the increased survivablity of the spec is rediculous. I've got 349 resiliance in my pvp gear, and last night in 3v3 I could survive through two S3 geared warriors nuking me down with no issues to my healers mana while I was CCing their healer, dealing some damage to 1 warrior and generally doing what warlocks do best. be a pain in the **** :D

Indeed, major survivability for pvp. But for raiding? Forget it.
I'd never let a lock come to a raid with SL/SL spec, not a chance.

6/44/11 is the only one I'd let into a raid, unless it's an alt kara/gruuls/SSC or whatever.

sl/sl is a survivability and control spec. you have the damage mitigation and life return to keep going for a long time, while also being free to control one or two people depending on the situation.

in 2's and 3's its mostly an outlast spec. in 5's its mostly a control spec. in bgs its fairly strong, and your ability to deal damage and survive increases as your opponents grow more numerous. with a good healer by your side you can tank quite a few people. the best ive seen to date was a friend of mine in eots, with the flag, at fel reaver ruins. he had a disc priest and holy paladin with him, and they went up against 9-10 horde. the battleground ended before he died, a good 8 minutes after he first charged the place. the horde just couldnt bring him down.

knowledge of when to sac a voidwalker is key to lasting thru the worst your enemy can throw at you.

the major weakness of this spec is priests. theyll dispel everything if theyre smart, and tab-dotting is a great way to make prom an ultra-efficient heal. a good priest will force an sl/sl lock to do more single target damage, something the sl/sl doesnt specialize in. in smaller group situations, the sl/sl is best served by draining the priest of mana before loading up the dots. in larger situations, having someone apply more direct pressure to the priest can give you room to dot up the priest and an additional target, increasing your dps and incoming health by a decent amount while also limiting the likelihood that prom will bounce around like a five year old on a sugar high.

as for pve, sl/sl usually wont top damage charts, but they do make premier seeders, because no other aoe class can put out the damage a seeding warlock can, and no other warlock spec can handle incoming damage like an sl/sl can. my only experience is with the 10-man instances, but there are a number of times having a smart sl/sl lock has taken a fight from "tough" to "easily manageable". with VW talents the blueberry becomes a decent off-tank on situations such as moroes or malacrass, building damage-less aggro thru manual taunting so that when the CC breaks they mobs go for the VW instead of the healers.

the life return and general control/survivability aspects of an sl/sl lock give it tank-like attributes in some situations as well. an sl/sl lock can, with fel hunter out, continue to do full dps during phase 3 zul'jin, hastening the completion of that phase.

finally, a good sl/sl lock can easily CC two mobs at once by using yo-yo fearing and VW tanking at the same time. instant cast dots mean the lock can still maintain some dps on the main target while CCing the other mobs, and soul link gives the lock the breathing room necessary to deal with the odd resist or early random aoe. their ability to self-heal is also great for healers, essentially giving the healer one less target to worry about.

Edited, Mar 19th 2008 5:21am by Quor