1: a 5 man heroic worth doing
2: resisted CS's gain the @#%^ing combo points and/or dont break stealth (dont care which)
3: ghostly strike dodge bonus up to 20-25% range
4: riposte disarms for 8 seconds, same old cd
5: find weakness buff (perhaps 4pt talent, 3/6/9/12?)
6: wound poison does 13% a stack (65% total, bam we have a reason why its easier to dispel then @#%^ing mortal strike)
7: make imp backstab reduce energy cost by 1/3/5 as well as current effect
8: imp kick change: 1/1 talent -> your kick ability is no longer affected by the global cooldown
9: master of subtlely change: 3/3 talent -> attacks from stealth (only from, no time after) do 5/10/15% more damage, and your stuns have a 10/20/30% less chance to be resisted or dodged
10: premeditation change: adds 1 combo point to target and increases your energy regeneration by 50% for 6-8 seconds 90 second cd
11: make blade twisting 5/10% chance to immobilize target and interrupt spellcasting (no school silence) on ss/bs/hemo/shiv (gouge is redundant)
12: deadened nerves change : 3/3 talent -> reduces all non-periodic damage by 2/4/6%
all of these would be OP or require a counter-nerf to balance it... but we deserve a FEW imo
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 11:05pm by mongoosexcore
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all i wanna see outta 2.4 is...Follow
The good thing about reading wish lists is getting to watch the person's reaction when Blizzard does the exact opposite.
Quote:
8: imp kick change: 1/1 talent -> your kick ability is no longer affected by the global cooldown
This alone would pwn so hard.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
Making kick cost 20 energy would satisfy me tbh, I dont want to have to wait a max of 4 seconds to dirupt something after just depleting my energy.
pummel and kick need to be off GCD as a base ability, plain and simple.
1: read sunwell info
2: won't happen
3: won't happen
4: won't happen
5: might happen, doubtful
6: wp is harder to dispel than ms
7: won't happen
8: this won't happen either
9: no, no one takes the talent already, there's much better stuff to get
10: 30 more energy on a 90s cooldown? no.
11: no, blade twisting is good as it is
12: no, it's better how it is
Now that I've shot down all of your ideas, how about coming up with some worthwhile changes to the rogue class?
2: won't happen
3: won't happen
4: won't happen
5: might happen, doubtful
6: wp is harder to dispel than ms
7: won't happen
8: this won't happen either
9: no, no one takes the talent already, there's much better stuff to get
10: 30 more energy on a 90s cooldown? no.
11: no, blade twisting is good as it is
12: no, it's better how it is
Now that I've shot down all of your ideas, how about coming up with some worthwhile changes to the rogue class?
Won't happen but, God, wouldn't that kick change be glorious?
Theophany the Sly wrote:
1: read sunwell info
2: won't happen
3: won't happen
4: won't happen
5: might happen, doubtful
6: wp is harder to dispel than ms
7: won't happen
8: this won't happen either
9: no, no one takes the talent already, there's much better stuff to get
10: 30 more energy on a 90s cooldown? no.
11: no, blade twisting is good as it is
12: no, it's better how it is
Now that I've shot down all of your ideas, how about coming up with some worthwhile changes to the rogue class?
2: won't happen
3: won't happen
4: won't happen
5: might happen, doubtful
6: wp is harder to dispel than ms
7: won't happen
8: this won't happen either
9: no, no one takes the talent already, there's much better stuff to get
10: 30 more energy on a 90s cooldown? no.
11: no, blade twisting is good as it is
12: no, it's better how it is
Now that I've shot down all of your ideas, how about coming up with some worthwhile changes to the rogue class?
6: how is ms easier to dispel then wp again? i musta missed a class... which class learns how to dispel it 3 times per instant cast?
9: thats the point theo, no one takes it.... that would make it worth taking it.... since i know at least I hate the **** out of resisted clutch ks's... or the fact i hafta garrote priests just so they dont resist (lets not even get into dueling orc sl/sl locks that resist the opener)
10: you wont take something that made 1 cp and gave you a small energy burst? vanish-premed 2.0-cs-hemo-ks isnt appealing from ZERO energy?
11: thats a preference thing, id just imagine most people being into it when its a different use then crip poison (save the dispel factor)
12: its better how it is HOW? need that extra 2% reduction on the rend ticks? i see so many people skip that poor talent, and making it moreso like mage's prismatic cloak would give it at least SOME usage
they already said its prob just gonna be small changes... those are small changes that are a step in the right direction... i cant get into the more sweeping ones cuz i dont expect or want them this patch
saying wont happen isnt a shotdown, its being a pessimist... and most the **** you said i dont agree with period. and btw, stop being one of the MILLION shadowstep rogues who values 1pt in camo over ghostly strike
the **** dude
I don't know the game mechanics enough to speak intelligently on this at length, but the Imp. Kick w/ no global CD would rock. I've missed too many heals in heroics due to the global and energy usage.
mongoosexcore wrote:
Theophany the Sly wrote:
1: read sunwell info
2: won't happen
3: won't happen
4: won't happen
5: might happen, doubtful
6: wp is harder to dispel than ms
7: won't happen
8: this won't happen either
9: no, no one takes the talent already, there's much better stuff to get
10: 30 more energy on a 90s cooldown? no.
11: no, blade twisting is good as it is
12: no, it's better how it is
Now that I've shot down all of your ideas, how about coming up with some worthwhile changes to the rogue class?
2: won't happen
3: won't happen
4: won't happen
5: might happen, doubtful
6: wp is harder to dispel than ms
7: won't happen
8: this won't happen either
9: no, no one takes the talent already, there's much better stuff to get
10: 30 more energy on a 90s cooldown? no.
11: no, blade twisting is good as it is
12: no, it's better how it is
Now that I've shot down all of your ideas, how about coming up with some worthwhile changes to the rogue class?
6: how is ms easier to dispel then wp again? i musta missed a class... which class learns how to dispel it 3 times per instant cast?
9: thats the point theo, no one takes it.... that would make it worth taking it.... since i know at least I hate the sh*t out of resisted clutch ks's... or the fact i hafta garrote priests just so they dont resist (lets not even get into dueling orc sl/sl locks that resist the opener)
10: you wont take something that made 1 cp and gave you a small energy burst? vanish-premed 2.0-cs-hemo-ks isnt appealing from ZERO energy?
11: thats a preference thing, id just imagine most people being into it when its a different use then crip poison (save the dispel factor)
12: its better how it is HOW? need that extra 2% reduction on the rend ticks? i see so many people skip that poor talent, and making it moreso like mage's prismatic cloak would give it at least SOME usage
they already said its prob just gonna be small changes... those are small changes that are a step in the right direction... i cant get into the more sweeping ones cuz i dont expect or want them this patch
saying wont happen isnt a shotdown, its being a pessimist... and most the sh*t you said i dont agree with period. and btw, stop being one of the MILLION shadowstep rogues who values 1pt in camo over ghostly strike
the @#%^ dude
If you have vile poisons, you have a 40% chance to have your poisons resist dispels. Yes, even on abolish.
It may be harder to keep up a 5 stack of wound, but 3 or 4? Definitely not. You can ask most high rated rogues, wp is definitely more powerful in terms of up time than ms.
I would never put points into it. I'd rather increase my damage out of stealth.
I'd rather have 2 CPs, since I can shatter combo better with it.
The dispel part is the reason blade twisting is there. If it had a snare and had a chance to proc a root, sure, but just the root? No, thanks.
Deadened Nerves reduces ALL physical damage, not just physical periodic. L2read.
EDIT: And GS is crap. I do more damage on a hemo, and 15% dodge is worthless when I'm the last to die anyway.
Edited, Feb 7th 2008 11:41am by Theophany
i think its also worth mentioning that MS is a 31-pt talent, while WP is accessable to all rogues, regardless of spec.
in terms of counters, yes, more classes can counter WP than MS, but at the same time, each of those classes has a counter unto themselves. druids can get their abolish dispelled by a shaman or priest, poison cleansing totem can be destroyed, and use of cure poison/cleanse is fighting a losing GCD war. most importantly, if a target with WP is BoP'ed, its not a fight resetter if a single heal goes off on that target like it is with MS.
in terms of counters, yes, more classes can counter WP than MS, but at the same time, each of those classes has a counter unto themselves. druids can get their abolish dispelled by a shaman or priest, poison cleansing totem can be destroyed, and use of cure poison/cleanse is fighting a losing GCD war. most importantly, if a target with WP is BoP'ed, its not a fight resetter if a single heal goes off on that target like it is with MS.
Quote:
i think its also worth mentioning that MS is a 31-pt talent, while WP is accessable to all rogues, regardless of spec
(Intercept)
Wait, what? Your hemo hits harder than ghostly strike since when?
Quote:
(Intercept)
you mean that skill that all rogues drool over like itll solve all their problems?
wish granted. BUT you can only use it while in a special "intercept stance" that also increases all damage taken by 10%. you know, for ***** and giggles, we're gonna put kick in this new intercept stance too, but make kidney shot unavailable. we'll give you +3% crit to make up for it tho.
oh, also, switching to intercept stance reduces your current energy level by 40, as does switching back to "normal" stance.
All I want to see out of 2.4 is a mutilate instant damage buff.
edit: time to change my sig
Edited, Feb 7th 2008 10:20pm by DrMayhem
edit: time to change my sig
Edited, Feb 7th 2008 10:20pm by DrMayhem
Quote:
wish granted. BUT you can only use it while in a special "intercept stance" that also increases all damage taken by 10%. you know, for sh*ts and giggles, we're gonna put kick in this new intercept stance too, but make kidney shot unavailable. we'll give you +3% crit to make up for it tho.
oh, also, switching to intercept stance reduces your current energy level by 40, as does switching back to "normal" stance.
oh, also, switching to intercept stance reduces your current energy level by 40, as does switching back to "normal" stance.
Ok I'll take that.
But how about we move mortal strike to a 41 point talent. Then, just for sh*ts and giggles, your target has to be hamstringed to do the damage it does now and if they aren't it does 50% less. For even more sh*ts and giggles, hamstring is now dispellable by 3/4 healers.
But wait! Lets change your intimidating shout also! It lasts for 10 seconds, but only effects one target and is on a five minute cooldown! And just to keep things interesting, you have a limited range!
But no that's not all! Let's also decrease your armor from plate to leather, and knock off about 2k HP.
You won't win the trade-off game quor ;) Although I no longer believe warriors are ridiculously overpowered like I used to, there is no arguing they are certainly a better pvp class than rogues.
And don't even try to bring stealth into the equation. Considering that people can now see what buffs you have on, an enemy can instantly tell if a opponent not present is a rogue or a druid. Anyone who knows you are there can either set up a stealth trap that you can't possibly get around, or wait a minute till second-bullsh*t appears and they'll see you from halfway across the map. So for all intents and purposes, stealth in arena is just useless.
Edited, Feb 7th 2008 9:58pm by Shaolinz
better pvp class is certainly a stretch shao. better arena class? sure, ill buy that. but pvp? no. rogues have a very strong niche in pvp still, and ask anyone who kills clothies fastest and the answer will be rogue more often than not (hunters come close).
sad thing is, that isnt really a nerf. hammy is already the weakest snare, its ALWAYS going to be on anyways, because any smart war refreshes at 50% duration. half damage without hammy on is actually a buff, because right now if a target doesnt have hammy we get no damage....cause we arent in melee range.
off to bowling, we'll pick this up later you crazy rogue you.
Quote:
But how about we move mortal strike to a 41 point talent. Then, just for sh*ts and giggles, your target has to be hamstringed to do the damage it does now and if they aren't it does 50% less. For even more sh*ts and giggles, hamstring is now dispellable by 3/4 healers.
sad thing is, that isnt really a nerf. hammy is already the weakest snare, its ALWAYS going to be on anyways, because any smart war refreshes at 50% duration. half damage without hammy on is actually a buff, because right now if a target doesnt have hammy we get no damage....cause we arent in melee range.
off to bowling, we'll pick this up later you crazy rogue you.
Quote:
better pvp class is certainly a stretch shao. better arena class? sure, ill buy that. but pvp? no.
Sorry, better meaningful pvp class.
Danteter wrote:
Wait, what? Your hemo hits harder than ghostly strike since when?
5% weapon damage isn't 42 damage.
Quote:
Sorry, better meaningful pvp class.
meaningful is a matter of opinion. gnome is the more meaningful arena warrior race, but night elf is win for BG's and world pvp. im a nelf, and despite my shortcomings in arena, im happy with what im capable of in world pvp and bg's.
mongoose is a good example of a rogue whos happy with his rogueish-ness outside of arenas.
Quote:
mongoose is a good example of a rogue whos happy with his rogueish-ness outside of arenas.
Yea, I might have played a little longer if I could have been happy like mongoose. When you log onto a game and are consistently pissed off something is wrong.
Quor wrote:
sad thing is, that isnt really a nerf. hammy is already the weakest snare, its ALWAYS going to be on anyways, because any smart war refreshes at 50% duration. half damage without hammy on is actually a buff, because right now if a target doesnt have hammy we get no damage....cause we arent in melee range.
lol if I was a warrior I would'nt be very happy with that "buff"
imagine this:
You see a target in the distance
You use Bloodrage
You charge
You apply Hamstring(normally you could mortal strike right away)
You use Mortal strike
This costs more rage and it forces you to use Hamstring, so it will cost you more time to do the same amount of damage it does now.
And since warriors dont have any long stuns, trinketing out of a hamstring will be very attractive with this "buff".
All I want is:
• Vanish has been fixed.
• Stealth has been fixed.
• Shadowstep has been fixed.
• Vanish has been fixed.
• Stealth has been fixed.
• Shadowstep has been fixed.
Maverickzzz wrote:
Quor wrote:
sad thing is, that isnt really a nerf. hammy is already the weakest snare, its ALWAYS going to be on anyways, because any smart war refreshes at 50% duration. half damage without hammy on is actually a buff, because right now if a target doesnt have hammy we get no damage....cause we arent in melee range.
lol if I was a warrior I would'nt be very happy with that "buff"
imagine this:
You see a target in the distance
You use Bloodrage
You charge
You apply Hamstring(normally you could mortal strike right away)
You use Mortal strike
This costs more rage and it forces you to use Hamstring, so it will cost you more time to do the same amount of damage it does now.
And since warriors dont have any long stuns, trinketing out of a hamstring will be very attractive with this "buff".
Bolded the important part. Every warrior worth his salt immediately puts hamstring up before all else so having it as a pre-req isn't changing anything.
If they trinket hamstring they will then get nailed with piercing howl, back to melee range, then hamstring is back up.
The buff/nerf, however you want to look at it, really won't change anything.
theo wrote:
If you have vile poisons, you have a 40% chance to have your poisons resist dispels. Yes, even on abolish.
a: It may be harder to keep up a 5 stack of wound, but 3 or 4? Definitely not. You can ask most high rated rogues, wp is definitely more powerful in terms of up time than ms.
b: I would never put points into it. I'd rather increase my damage out of stealth.
c: I'd rather have 2 CPs, since I can shatter combo better with it.
d: The dispel part is the reason blade twisting is there. If it had a snare and had a chance to proc a root, sure, but just the root? No, thanks.
e: Deadened Nerves reduces ALL physical damage, not just physical periodic. L2read.
f: EDIT: And GS is crap. I do more damage on a hemo, and 15% dodge is worthless when I'm the last to die anyway.
a: It may be harder to keep up a 5 stack of wound, but 3 or 4? Definitely not. You can ask most high rated rogues, wp is definitely more powerful in terms of up time than ms.
b: I would never put points into it. I'd rather increase my damage out of stealth.
c: I'd rather have 2 CPs, since I can shatter combo better with it.
d: The dispel part is the reason blade twisting is there. If it had a snare and had a chance to proc a root, sure, but just the root? No, thanks.
e: Deadened Nerves reduces ALL physical damage, not just physical periodic. L2read.
f: EDIT: And GS is crap. I do more damage on a hemo, and 15% dodge is worthless when I'm the last to die anyway.
a: vile poisons is a big help, but not everyone specs it (im only 3/5 for example)... and even so, i know ms warriors can be contained in 5v5 arena well, but you know me
ALL pvp, NOT just arena
b: you dont put points into it now... so whats the difference? most rogues at least think ********** **** **** damnit to hell" when they lose in w/e they are doing just from the resisted cs
c: preference, i like how the 2 cp works atm too... but thats me in a 1v1 perspective, trying to think something to help bring it back (and it would work better with 30-0-31 and backstab shadowstep builds better then the current imo)
d: snare and root would be op, blizzard wouldnt have it.... people taking it think just to fight against poison dispellers, but you cant poison dispel a root, it contains better then a 50% snare and you can shiv before it ends if the crip gets dispelled
the big change for it was the interrupt spell casting, better healer lockdown (besides like a druid)
e: and what i said is all non-periodic, including phys and spell... so the only difference is you eat your full rend, read what i said, its more effect for less points unless deep wounds or rip or whatever is really killing you by the skin of your teeth
f: and 1 point camo is better? 1v1 with a rogue in 2v2 arena after both the partners died... ghostly strike is almost gamebreaking in that scenario
----------------
nice derail into lolwarriorsvsroguesineveryway guys ^_^
and i am happy with my current status, since im not big on the arenas... i kill anything my gear level and almost anything above mine.... im just saying to help the class, i would only need about 1 thing on my list
other then i would <3 <3 shadowstep NO energy cost... but it wont happen, but man would it help
yeah, i dont know where this whole idea came from that warriors charge then open with MS. maybe that works on gray targets, but as jim said, any warrior with half a brain charges then immediately puts hammy on the target, then follows up with whatever move is appropriate (generally MS, sometimes sweeping strikes, other times slam or demo shout/tclap).
it wont make trinketing hamstring any more or less worthwhile than it currently is.
it will be a nice nerf to arms pve dps however.
it wont make trinketing hamstring any more or less worthwhile than it currently is.
it will be a nice nerf to arms pve dps however.
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