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Mongoose vs ExecutionerFollow

#1 Feb 06 2008 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
title says all, which is better?
#2 Feb 06 2008 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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<lawlRet?>

To answer the question though ... Executioner looks cooler, so Executioner it is ;)
#3 Feb 06 2008 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
Well ok, I know this opens my up to a lot of hypocritical comments, but I got the torch tonight and if anything I don't want to be a complete noob and leave it unenchanted... and if I'm going to enchant it, I might as well enchant it with the right thing. Honestly I don't even really know if I'm going to use it but at the worst I do plan on leveling to 80 (even if this becomes my DK's alt) so it'll help. I've been talking to some warriors and they all say executioner, but I like having multiple opinions.
#4 Feb 06 2008 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
ArPen is bad for Ret (doesn't effect enough of your damage). Mongoose is the better choice out of the two for Retadins.
#5 Feb 06 2008 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
See now that's what I was honestly thinking, but you're the first to actually say that. I thought it was just my ignorance.
#6 Feb 06 2008 at 9:08 PM Rating: Default
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#7 Feb 06 2008 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Shampoo or Conditioner?


Use the two-in-one. Also, you now get 20% more for FREE!

Quote:
but I got the torch tonight and if anything I don't want to be a complete noob and leave it unenchanted...


Quote:
ArPen is bad for Ret (doesn't effect enough of your damage).


Noob questions: what is the "torch" and "arpen" is, I am assuming, armor penetration?
#8 Feb 06 2008 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
LockeColeMA wrote:
Noob questions: what is the "torch" and "arpen" is, I am assuming, armor penetration?


armor penetration and http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?source=live;witem=32332

now shoo. I liked RPZip's thoughts on mongoose, judgement/seals/etc don't care about armor anyway, executioner might be a better warrior enchant.
#9 Feb 06 2008 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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I always thought Savagery was likely to be the best of the three for paladins, but I could be wrong.
#10 Feb 06 2008 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
savagery is just AP right? That's so meh... mongoose has haste and crit
#11 Feb 06 2008 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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Dilbrt wrote:
savagery is just AP right? That's so meh... mongoose has haste and crit


I'm just saying what I remember reading. Not saying it's necessarily true, though there is some logic to it. Also may be a difference between Alliance and Horde paladins.

Edited, Feb 7th 2008 12:07am by Poldaran
#12 Feb 07 2008 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Dilbrt wrote:
See now that's what I was honestly thinking, but you're the first to actually say that. I thought it was just my ignorance.

Really? See, now, that's kind of funny to me... because I'm pretty sure I've said it in every Retribution Paladin weapon enchant thread EVER.
#13 Feb 07 2008 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
yeah but that'd mean I'd actually read ret posts. Used to be, I'd just open it, post lawl ret then leave. Then I got attacked by the rate down monkeys so I don't even bother opening ret threads anymore.
#14 Feb 07 2008 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
Maulgak wrote:
[ Executioner looks cooler, so Executioner it is ;)


I dunno.. executioner to me looks like someone is just constantly unwrapping your weapon.
#15 Feb 07 2008 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know this is a little of subject but:

Quote:
(even if this becomes my DK's alt)


If you didnt already know, you dont lose your current character, you just get a new slot that opens for the DK.

Quote:
The Death Knight is the first hero class in World of Warcraft. At a high, undetermined level, a player will be able to create a Death Knight. This is a second and separate character from your original character. The Death Knight starts at a high level somewhere around 60 or 70 with multiple spells and abilities ready to use. Within this quest chain the character learns to master the power of the Death Knight and learns to use this new power for their will. Blizzard is currently exploring various options as to how the Death Knight will play and the types of abilities at its disposal, and they will reveal more information about this new class as they get further along in development.

There is no restriction to how many Death Knights you can create, and you can create a new character on any realm, as any other class.


Sunds like they will have a few quests to show you how to use it since you start with many spells already in known.
#16 Feb 07 2008 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
spicyoctopusroll wrote:
I know this is a little of subject but:

Quote:
(even if this becomes my DK's alt)


If you didnt already know, you dont lose your current character, you just get a new slot that opens for the DK.


I dont see how that comment could be interpreted as him thinking his char will be consumed.

more like he is making the stament with the possiblity of liking DK more then his Pally. Making DK take the spot of his Main charactor by the amount of didication he will have to that char.

Most, if not all of the Pallies on this board, Should have an intamate knowledge of how DK will work, mainly because everyone in wow thinks DK is a alternate form of a pally, and come here with their questions.

So much information about the topic is tossed about here. Despite there being a sticky about all of this on the main page. /confused

Edited, Feb 7th 2008 12:15pm by RuenBahamut
#17 Feb 07 2008 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I dont see how that comment could be interpreted as him thinking his char will be consumed.


Quote:
(even if this becomes my DK's alt)


To me if someone says BECOMES,sounds like it is consumed.

Also why I posted

Quote:
If you didn't already know,


Quote:
So much information about the topic is tossed about here. Despite there being a sticky about all of this on the main page. /confused


Indeed, however, like you said, so much information tossed about here, some may not read it all. Not a big deal that I threw it out there as I have and know Dilbert probably knows all about it, but you never know.

TBH, some people don't go through every sticky and post on every board, typically what is most interest to them, and a newer person may read that and interpret it the same way and start a whole new slew of threads on the topic, Ive seen it happen. Honestly, it really doesn't matter until the xp actually is released, but, for me, its nice to be certain.
#18 Feb 07 2008 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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And DILBERT, Im done. dont want your thread to become a debate about something that has been already overly discussed like Ruen said.
#19 Feb 07 2008 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
Threads degrade, its the natural progress of forums. Even something as simple as listing which guilds are where in progression end up flame or troll fests by the end, it doesn't bother me. My own questions were answered, so where it goes from there doesn't affect me.

I know that chars aren't consumed (though I wouldn't mind it actually being consumed if it meant I got to use my tradeskills/rep on my new toon), I meant it as a description of where I allotted my time. I have 3 70s, but I didn't even level any of them past 60 until my paladin was 70, had exalted rep with nearly everyone, and basically had every piece of gear I could get outside of a raid. That's kinda how I roll, I like to finish a char the best I can before starting on a second.
#20 Feb 08 2008 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mongoose.
#21 Feb 08 2008 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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From warriorpwns.com wrote:
Mongoose vs Executioner vs Savagery
Enchants November 20th, 2007
Long version:

Season 3 starts next week, so it’s high time to take a look at weapon enchants to make sure what to pick. Personally, I think I wont have this problem, since I’ll have to stick with weapon chain. For those of you who will have Weapon Mastery tho, a quick analise.

First, let’s compare Executioner to Mongoose. They are both proc enchants, and while I couldn’t find any real PPM for them to estimate their average uptime, I’ll just assume they proc on same rate. Mongoose gives 120 agility and 2% haste to attacks. 120 agility translate into 3.63% crit, 4% dodge and 240 armor. Executioner makes your attacks ignore 840 enemy armor, the trick here is that the exact dps increase form Executioner depends on the armor your enemy has, and as such it’s best when used on low armor targets. I’ve updated my Sunder Armor calculator recently to include Executioner. Without looking at Sunder Armor, Executioner on 5k armor target is 5.71% damage increase, which really increase burst damage, and it really works great with Sunder Armor. Also, S3 armor is full of armor reduction (not as much as some PvE gear tho). When taking on 10k armored target, that number goes down, but is till worth it, with 4.26% damage increase. If you have around 130% crit, 3.63% crit from mongoose is about 2.7% dps increase, when you take resilience into account it goes down to ~2.2 - 2.1 dps increase, there is no competition, Executioner is way better offensive enchant for warriors then Mongoose. My numbers can be not so accurate, I’m not taking deep wounds, flurry or whatever into account, but even if I would, there is no way that 2.2% would raise enough to compete with 5% of Executioner. The good side about mongoose is that it helps with your survivability, but then, dodge and 240 armor is not going to help you when you get nuked on the arena. Let’s just give mongoose to rogues.

Savagery is pretty simple, 70 attack power always. 70 attack power is 5 dps. 5 dps when you already have 250 dps (I guess that number will go much higher in S3, if it’s not already higher for heavily ap geared S2 warriors) is roughly 2% dps increase (again, not counting many factors, but it should be pretty close). As such, it already beat mongoose for offensive power as it’s active all the time. I don’t know how high can the uptime on Executioner be, but assuming 50% uptime, Executioner beats Savagery on average dps over time. Executioner also scales well better with gear, it gets better the more attack power you have and the more armor reduction from other sources you have, it’s a beast right here. The huge advantage of Savagery is it’s price, Executioner is rather expensive stuff, nothing out of reach for any warrior tho. It finally feels like we have an enchant that truly benefits our class.

Short version:

Executioner pwns.



I don't vouch for the accuracy but it's an interesting read from a differnent point of view
#22 Feb 08 2008 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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edit:

Wow after doing more math i think im retarded.

Edited, Feb 8th 2008 9:50am by KTurner
#23 Feb 08 2008 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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That's also from a Warrior's point of view, so I don't think the math could be directly translated to Paladin DPS and percentages. What do I know though, I'm terrible with math.

What I do know is that for PvE (I thought that was what this thread was about) I would take Mongoose hands-down. For PvP, I would actually probably go for a weapon chain myself.
#24 Feb 08 2008 at 11:31 AM Rating: Default
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Gaudion wrote:
That's also from a Warrior's point of view, so I don't think the math could be directly translated to Paladin DPS and percentages. What do I know though, I'm terrible with math.



True. but the author doesn't factor in warrior talents so it could be your mom's POV for all I care

Gaudion wrote:

What I do know is that for PvE (I thought that was what this thread was about)



OP made no mention of his preference in this post ;)

Gaudion wrote:

I would take Mongoose hands-down. For PvP, I would actually probably go for a weapon chain myself


I like the chain myself but Executioner looks better at increasing DPS in both arenas imo.

#25 Feb 08 2008 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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chood wrote:
Gaudion wrote:
That's also from a Warrior's point of view, so I don't think the math could be directly translated to Paladin DPS and percentages. What do I know though, I'm terrible with math.



True. but the author doesn't factor in warrior talents so it could be your mom's POV for all I care

Does his calculation figure in the use of Whirlwind and Mortal Strike or Bloodthirst? Or Overpower? Talents or no talents, aside from bleeds and Thunderclap Warrior damage is all physical damage. And Warriors don't proc Vengeance when they crit.

SoC and JoC are spells so they get zero benefit from armor penetration. Your smart-*** reply doesn't really help us figure this out one way or the other now does it?

Quote:
Gaudion wrote:

I would take Mongoose hands-down. For PvP, I would actually probably go for a weapon chain myself


I like the chain myself but Executioner looks better at increasing DPS in both arenas imo.

... What?
#26 Feb 08 2008 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
That's Warrior math, but more importantly it's bad/awful Warrior math.
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