Relentless Assault vs Major agility.Follow

After someone told me that the flask is WAY better then just a pot, and i should be ashamed of using pots i decided to go and do the math.

First, the easiest and least important aspect: cash.
On my server, RA costs ~35g, MA costs ~3g.
So unless you wipe more then 12 times in 2 hours (or once each 10 minutes) Major Agility is cheaper.
Although money shouldnt be an issue, it might come in later if they end up really close to eachother ;)

Relentless assault = 120 Ap.
Major Agility = 35 agility and 20 critrating.
35 agility translates to: 35 AP and 1.78% crit
so at first glance, RA is obviously better...


according to blizzard: 1 agi = 2 Ap and 1 crit = 2 AP.
(gems, enchants ect. that is the general rule Blizz uses)
120 AP = 120 point according to that (i´m keeping it as simple as i can)
35 agi = 70 points, 20 crit = 40 points for a total of 110 points.
This way, they are already a lot closer together.

Now the real question comes: do buffs like this get bonuses from talents like Lightning reflexes, Master Marksman and such?


For now i´ll assume it isnt affected.
Relentless Assault would be the way to go then, at least for BM and MM.
For survival there´s and added aspect, Expose Weakness.
EW gives the whole group or raid an extra 8.75 AP from the agility on the Potion.
At the least that is 8.75 AP for you, your pet and the tank.
Grabbing back on the 1 agi = 2 AP, 1 crit = 2 Ap rule:
where it was 120 v 110 before, it is now 120 vs 110 + 8.75 = 118.75, counting the AP from the tank and your pet for 50% because they dont form it into damage as much as a hunter does, its 120 vs 127.5 and already a winner for the Agility Potion.

So my conclusion was that i should keep using Major Agility Potions and ignoring flasks, though i am still very curious wether talents increase AP/Agi from buffs too or not.

I´d like to hear your opinion on this.

- Æthien




edit: yes, i realise i could have justed asked if talents increase stats gained from buffs but this might give a nice discussion and that is way more fun ;)

Edited, Feb 6th 2008 2:58pm by Aethien

euhm, read my whole post.... you just repeat what i said.
And 120 AP is still worth a lot to SV, even if it isnt agility it is personal dps.

I have 679 agility and 1928 Ap selfbuffed, i could have well over 700 agility unbuffed if i´d want to.
I dont, because it would seriously mess up my other stats such as +hit and attack power.

Agility isnt everything, balance is everything.

Major Agility is much more worth it, great benefits to the group as a whole, 120AP is like what? 3DPS? even 5DPS? 35 Agility is 35 AP plus almost 2% crit which adds about the same DPS so 3g versus 35g? is it really 12 times better? hell no, it's not even twice as good... the only benefit the flask has is that it persists through death.... but if you're wiping THAT many times to make the 35g for 2 hours better worth it than maybe 3-4 pots = 12-15g, you go right ahead and do whatever the hell you want, you've got a lot more patience than I do.

Unless you're talking PvP, I'm going to have to disagree. For SV Hunters in PvE, the only stat possibly more important than Agi is Hit, and that's only until you hit the cap, then it's Agi all the way.

SV in a endgame PvE environment isn't about personal DPS, if you're after that, BM will get better results. SV sacrifices some personal DPS to boost the damage of his teammates.

That's not to say that SV Hunters are incapapable of doing good personal DPS. Far from it in fact, but stacking Agi doesn't mean that other stats disappear. Agi in fact scales better than most, if not all Hunter stats.

Not to turn this into a pissing contest, but I've focused primarily on Agi only, and have 782, but am still over the hit cap and have have 1893AP unbuffed with AotH on.

So I can still put out the numbers, but I also grant around 250AP to members of my raid (when raid buffed) while I'm doing it.

Agi also boosts crit rating which helps in 2 ways. More EW uptime and it actually helps our damage. BM spec focuses on sustained damage through AP, SV damage is more spiky and relies more on crits.


Edited, Feb 6th 2008 10:14am by Rasen

I understand that you try to keep it simple (and honestly I'd go with MA if I used pots during raids...), but you have to consider that AP yields more DPS than agi, and agi yields more DPS than crit rating.

I use both, but depends on situation.

Relentless Assault (RA) can be very pricey and/or not available. I refuse to spend 40+ gold, so if it's that high, I don't buy it.

I actually prefer using the Maj Agi/Draenic Wisdom (MA/DW) combo. I like more Agi in general, primarily for the crit boost. I also like the mana from the DW. It never hurts to have more mana in long fights.

If I have the RA and I think there may be a few wipes, I tend to use it rather than MA/DW combo. Cost-wise, it's prob still cheaper to use the MA/DW combo, but I just don't like re-potting for 4+ deaths, if I think that's what's going to happen.

Just fyi, those are HORRIBLE numbers to follow. Use equivalence points, not Blizz's itemization values. Itemization puts every point of mana/5 at more than twice as good as any other hunter stat.


Yes, they do. Any buffs scale with talents, Kings, and so on, as far as I know.

And as SynnTastic said, you can now use a +30int or a 16mp5 elixir as well.

And just one other comment:

Truth. Stacking the hell out of agility is what you should be doing. With buffs and early-T5-level gear (ZA, Reaver, Solarian), you *can* be over 1000 agility fulyl buffed. Which is going to boost raid-wide DPS a lot more than if you try and boost your own damage first, and stack agility second. And as a little plus, you'll also be running 39% crit and 2250ap buffed :P

Edited, Feb 6th 2008 2:31pm by lsfreak

Quick question, side note for the gaurdian elixir.

Mageblood potion(16 mp/5) or Draenic Wisdom(30 int XX spirit)?

Consider the fact that I will already have Superior Mana Oil(14 mp/5) applied to my weapon.

You can be well over 1000 agi in kara and below gear

Elaborate please, not including crappy "of Agility" greens.

but you were buffed into heaven there, with everything from scroll to food to agility totem to kings etc etc.
take the totem and scroll away and suddenly you're at 1k agilit again, maybe less.


And you only have 6.6k mana buffed up high.
So only like what 4k unbuffed? so you sacrificed a lot of int for that agility.
you also paid for it with about ~250-300 Ap (comparing you to me now)

With the same buffs i would be at ~950 agility and about 2550-2600 AP...
And i'm in worse gear then you were there (or at least i assume you were in all epic stuffs... i am still in partial blues)
And i'd have about 2k more mana....