I'm not personally a mage, but my friend loves frost, and I love it's utility in heroics. He's a kiting machine and there's no way around it. I also realize that fire is king during raids. I was wondering what anyone else thought of this spec that I came up with. Obviously it's sort've rough. What I'm wondering is, do Spell Power and Ice Shards stack? It seems that this could be a very viable frost dps spec. Obviously you lose empowered FB, but I'm wondering if this would be outweighed by gaining Arcane Power? Note, I also consider Arcane Potency a waste of points. Off the top it looks great, but 30% increased crit every 10th spell is incredibly misleading to many (i'm sure some of you know the theorycraft behind it, and it's less than impressive.)
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?2050550000130150300120000000000000000000000000505020310035010030000
Anyways, thanks for your opinions, let me know what you think!
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raid spec frost?Follow
Yes ice shards and spell power stack. And i agree that Arcane Potency isnt that great.
That being said it looks more like a half baked PvP spec, definitely not a raiding spec. Although some will say (a few) that its a viable raid spec, if youre friend want to raid as frost, deep frost is the option.
For raiding that deep in the arcane tree is mixed with fire bc of the way ignite works.
Check out the sticky on the mage forums "best mage post ever" which could use an update since the last patch.
Its true that deep fire is a way better raid spec especially if you have 700+ spell damage. I can also kite mobs in heriocs as deep fire, frostnova, dragons breath, blast nova and if in a pinch frostbolt rank 1, so thats a very poor excuse imo ;)
Anyway kiting takes more time killing thrash then tank and spank focus fire, i only do it when i "test the tank". (aka nuking like a ****** and pulling aggro) And there is not much kiting going on in bossfights, where pewpew really matters. Thrash doesnt "count" at all.
But if hes only running heriocs and has decent gear his spec doesnt matter that much.
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 4:09pm by Sjans
That being said it looks more like a half baked PvP spec, definitely not a raiding spec. Although some will say (a few) that its a viable raid spec, if youre friend want to raid as frost, deep frost is the option.
For raiding that deep in the arcane tree is mixed with fire bc of the way ignite works.
Check out the sticky on the mage forums "best mage post ever" which could use an update since the last patch.
Its true that deep fire is a way better raid spec especially if you have 700+ spell damage. I can also kite mobs in heriocs as deep fire, frostnova, dragons breath, blast nova and if in a pinch frostbolt rank 1, so thats a very poor excuse imo ;)
Anyway kiting takes more time killing thrash then tank and spank focus fire, i only do it when i "test the tank". (aka nuking like a ****** and pulling aggro) And there is not much kiting going on in bossfights, where pewpew really matters. Thrash doesnt "count" at all.
But if hes only running heriocs and has decent gear his spec doesnt matter that much.
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 4:09pm by Sjans
a very viable raiding spec for frost is
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0Ec0czghziZZVA0coc0o
u have really nice crits, AP, Icy Veins and our mana-management is nice too.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0Ec0czghziZZVA0coc0o
u have really nice crits, AP, Icy Veins and our mana-management is nice too.
druidserg wrote:
a very viable raiding spec for frost is
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0Ec0czghziZZVA0coc0o
u have really nice crits, AP, Icy Veins and our mana-management is nice too.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0Ec0czghziZZVA0coc0o
u have really nice crits, AP, Icy Veins and our mana-management is nice too.
it is viable to a certain extent, until you get around 800 frost damage, where picking up the water elemental, winters chill, ice floes, winds, would be a bigger dps upgrade. That being said fire will still be ahead of it.
I had the 40/0/21 build for a long time. Through Kara and into Gruul's. I loved that spec, but the damage is just not enough to be viable. At one time I had stated that I would never spec fire, and that was simply because I didn't ever think I would have the time to raid.
Well the time has become available, so I started thinking about changing...then 2k gold later (too lazy, pressed for time, to farm mats) and I an now 0/50/11.
ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!!!
My damage is much much much more than it ever was with either the 2/0/59 or 40/0/21 builds. The crits are incredible and I am top 2 in dps in 10 mans and in the top 5 or 6 in 25 mans. Locks and Enhancement shammies tend to sometimes get me in damage.
Fire is for sure without a doubt THE raid build!
Well the time has become available, so I started thinking about changing...then 2k gold later (too lazy, pressed for time, to farm mats) and I an now 0/50/11.
ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!!!!
My damage is much much much more than it ever was with either the 2/0/59 or 40/0/21 builds. The crits are incredible and I am top 2 in dps in 10 mans and in the top 5 or 6 in 25 mans. Locks and Enhancement shammies tend to sometimes get me in damage.
Fire is for sure without a doubt THE raid build!
Personally when I was raiding/5man as frost I used http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0VZZVAMsofxsVqt as my build. It seemed to give me more dps than 40/0/21, adding in the dmg from the water elemental is also a bonus, and with a 3 min cd you can have it out constantly at a low mana cost.
The stacking of winter's chill from this build will also help the dps of anyone who goes 40/0/21.
The only thing I didn't like about frost mage was the extremely lame set bonus from frozen shadoweave. How spellfire got such a better bonus I will never understand.
Personally, I miss frost for questing and pvp, but I do love the extreme damage output of 2/48/11 in raids.
The stacking of winter's chill from this build will also help the dps of anyone who goes 40/0/21.
The only thing I didn't like about frost mage was the extremely lame set bonus from frozen shadoweave. How spellfire got such a better bonus I will never understand.
Personally, I miss frost for questing and pvp, but I do love the extreme damage output of 2/48/11 in raids.
All three element trees can be viable for raids. If you don't care about topping the damage meter and all that stuff, and just fulfilling your role as a mage competently, you can do just fine with Frost.
If you're all about "GODLY DPS!!!", "HAH, ROGUES FTL! FIRE PWNS!", topping damage meters, etc., you'll want to go Arcane or Fire.
Arcane has the greatest potential burst damage, at the cost of being terribly mana-inefficient even with the INT and mana boosts from Arcane talents.
Fire has more crit, more reliable damage and more consistent burst damage (and cool flame effects).
Frost is the most mana-efficient by far, and offers the best defenses, but the least damage. Frost can do raid-viable damage, but people prefer Fire or Arcane simply because in raids the main job of a mage is to do as much damage as possible without taking aggro from the tank.
If you want to unleash the true power of Frost in a raid, you need to go Deep Frost. 2/0/59 or 13/0/?? (don't remember the exact number) are good specs to pick.
Good luck. ^^
If you're all about "GODLY DPS!!!", "HAH, ROGUES FTL! FIRE PWNS!", topping damage meters, etc., you'll want to go Arcane or Fire.
Arcane has the greatest potential burst damage, at the cost of being terribly mana-inefficient even with the INT and mana boosts from Arcane talents.
Fire has more crit, more reliable damage and more consistent burst damage (and cool flame effects).
Frost is the most mana-efficient by far, and offers the best defenses, but the least damage. Frost can do raid-viable damage, but people prefer Fire or Arcane simply because in raids the main job of a mage is to do as much damage as possible without taking aggro from the tank.
If you want to unleash the true power of Frost in a raid, you need to go Deep Frost. 2/0/59 or 13/0/?? (don't remember the exact number) are good specs to pick.
Good luck. ^^
PsydonX wrote:
All three element trees can be viable for raids. If you don't care about topping the damage meter and all that stuff, and just fulfilling your role as a mage competently, you can do just fine with Frost.
If you're all about "GODLY DPS!!!", "HAH, ROGUES FTL! FIRE PWNS!", topping damage meters, etc., you'll want to go Arcane or Fire.
Arcane has the greatest potential burst damage, at the cost of being terribly mana-inefficient even with the INT and mana boosts from Arcane talents.
Fire has more crit, more reliable damage and more consistent burst damage (and cool flame effects).
Frost is the most mana-efficient by far, and offers the best defenses, but the least damage. Frost can do raid-viable damage, but people prefer Fire or Arcane simply because in raids the main job of a mage is to do as much damage as possible without taking aggro from the tank.
If you want to unleash the true power of Frost in a raid, you need to go Deep Frost. 2/0/59 or 13/0/?? (don't remember the exact number) are good specs to pick.
Good luck. ^^
If you're all about "GODLY DPS!!!", "HAH, ROGUES FTL! FIRE PWNS!", topping damage meters, etc., you'll want to go Arcane or Fire.
Arcane has the greatest potential burst damage, at the cost of being terribly mana-inefficient even with the INT and mana boosts from Arcane talents.
Fire has more crit, more reliable damage and more consistent burst damage (and cool flame effects).
Frost is the most mana-efficient by far, and offers the best defenses, but the least damage. Frost can do raid-viable damage, but people prefer Fire or Arcane simply because in raids the main job of a mage is to do as much damage as possible without taking aggro from the tank.
If you want to unleash the true power of Frost in a raid, you need to go Deep Frost. 2/0/59 or 13/0/?? (don't remember the exact number) are good specs to pick.
Good luck. ^^
As I have already replied to your original thread, I will just make a small note.
When DPS becomes important in later raids (ssc+tk, and I am now in MH/BT) where fights ARE a dps race to make sure healers are not going out of mana, beating enrage timers, etc, then being the best dps spec with the most gear available to you is the only way to go. If you want to gimp yourself and your raid by doing 100 less dps then feel free to do so, but past kara + gruuls where your damage means between a wipe and a kill it is more worth it to go for fire. Even if you are #1 in the raid as frost, that means a couple of things -- you either outgear everyone around you, those around you are not that good, and/or you could be beating ou the #2 person by even more than what you just did.
Anobix wrote:
As I have already replied to your original thread, I will just make a small note.
When DPS becomes important in later raids (ssc+tk, and I am now in MH/BT) where fights ARE a dps race to make sure healers are not going out of mana, beating enrage timers, etc, then being the best dps spec with the most gear available to you is the only way to go. If you want to gimp yourself and your raid by doing 100 less dps then feel free to do so, but past kara + gruuls where your damage means between a wipe and a kill it is more worth it to go for fire. Even if you are #1 in the raid as frost, that means a couple of things -- you either outgear everyone around you, those around you are not that good, and/or you could be beating ou the #2 person by even more than what you just did.
When DPS becomes important in later raids (ssc+tk, and I am now in MH/BT) where fights ARE a dps race to make sure healers are not going out of mana, beating enrage timers, etc, then being the best dps spec with the most gear available to you is the only way to go. If you want to gimp yourself and your raid by doing 100 less dps then feel free to do so, but past kara + gruuls where your damage means between a wipe and a kill it is more worth it to go for fire. Even if you are #1 in the raid as frost, that means a couple of things -- you either outgear everyone around you, those around you are not that good, and/or you could be beating ou the #2 person by even more than what you just did.
True dat.
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