Ok I have a tank mouldering around level 46 so I have a little appreciation for aggro generation. I have to say though of late I have found self-proclaimed tanks to be incapable of generating aggro let alone holding it.
I went to Mech last night, I'm not a bad healer, I get through heroics with 1200 base bonus heal (and my regular guild tank (who is a god btw)), first normal boss took 3 hours. It was quite simple the tank kept losing the aggro, I even got to the point where I would let the tanks health fall to 30% before I'd start pulling him back.
I'm just worried because I'm seeing this as a trend, is it just incompetants, or should they go on a course of "What Sunder Armor is good for?"
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 5:49am by Tyranise
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I have noticed this as of late as well. But with a little more specific paramaters, warriors seem to be the key.
I rolled a priest, only tanks I can find that consistantly keep aggro lately have been pallys. Bears seem to have been added to the endangered species list, but the few I have found do well for the most part. Warriors on the other hand, well.... suck.
Is this some plague that cause warriors to remove sunder and thunderclap from their bar, cause them to forget to repair before a dungeon and never restock on ammo? I don't know, but seems to be a growing trend IMO as well.
I rolled a priest, only tanks I can find that consistantly keep aggro lately have been pallys. Bears seem to have been added to the endangered species list, but the few I have found do well for the most part. Warriors on the other hand, well.... suck.
Is this some plague that cause warriors to remove sunder and thunderclap from their bar, cause them to forget to repair before a dungeon and never restock on ammo? I don't know, but seems to be a growing trend IMO as well.
This trend happens every year after christmas.
All those new people getting WoW and some shiny level 70's.
All those new people getting WoW and some shiny level 70's.
yeh i have noticed this since you only need to be honored to get into heroics, you get these jsut turned 70 warriors thinking
"ooh i have the felsteel set and the gladiator shield, i can tank a heroic"
NO YOU CAN'T!
i went through 5 tanks the other day to do a daily heoic before i found one that could handle the mobs, the 1st guys were useless, had more greens that blues and i jsut kicked most of them before we even got in the instance.
then when we tried it with one gusy(who still had greens), he gets one shotted, so i whack on a shield and while still in my fury gear i manage to tank one while the other is sheeped, then tank the other.
if i can do it as fury why cannot prot warriros do it?
"ooh i have the felsteel set and the gladiator shield, i can tank a heroic"
NO YOU CAN'T!
i went through 5 tanks the other day to do a daily heoic before i found one that could handle the mobs, the 1st guys were useless, had more greens that blues and i jsut kicked most of them before we even got in the instance.
then when we tried it with one gusy(who still had greens), he gets one shotted, so i whack on a shield and while still in my fury gear i manage to tank one while the other is sheeped, then tank the other.
if i can do it as fury why cannot prot warriros do it?
In the name of all the decent warrior tanks in World of Warcraft, I apologize.
Now that is out of the way;
FACT:
Warriors that don't apply sunderarmor (or use Devestate to do so) are useless.
FACT:
A Tank who's health falls below 30% will flinch, because it will usually mean he pulled while the healer was AFK, or Prince Mal just landed 3 crushing blows on his ***.
FACT:
There are hundreds, if not thousands lvl70-prot-warriors out there. 10% of them may suck. You may have met this 10%. We are not all like that.
FACT:
Let me quote redbarronthesecond here;
I tanked herioc Mech in Blue/greens, aprox 5 to 7 greens at that moment; I did fine (with a priest with 1100 +healing).
I did fine. We wiped twice, on the second boss (fire ***** = a pain), dropped her on the third try.
CONCLUSION:
Some warriors suck. You may go on a bad luck spree, and encounter lots of sucky tanks. To say, and I quote evilfourty;
is short sighted, and an insult to the class. Go watch Kungen tank, hell, come watch me tank; not all warriors suck. Many of us apply those five sunders, many of us tank heroics in greens/blues just fine. Open your eyes; heroic can be a pain or a blessing; PUGs can be a pain or a blessing; prot warriors can be a pain or a blessing.
WoW can be a pain or a blessing.
Thou shalt meditate on this, young one.
Now that is out of the way;
FACT:
Warriors that don't apply sunderarmor (or use Devestate to do so) are useless.
FACT:
A Tank who's health falls below 30% will flinch, because it will usually mean he pulled while the healer was AFK, or Prince Mal just landed 3 crushing blows on his ***.
FACT:
There are hundreds, if not thousands lvl70-prot-warriors out there. 10% of them may suck. You may have met this 10%. We are not all like that.
FACT:
Let me quote redbarronthesecond here;
Quote:
yeh i have noticed this since you only need to be honored to get into heroics, you get these jsut turned 70 warriors thinking
"ooh i have the felsteel set and the gladiator shield, i can tank a heroic"
NO YOU CAN'T!
"ooh i have the felsteel set and the gladiator shield, i can tank a heroic"
NO YOU CAN'T!
I tanked herioc Mech in Blue/greens, aprox 5 to 7 greens at that moment; I did fine (with a priest with 1100 +healing).
I did fine. We wiped twice, on the second boss (fire ***** = a pain), dropped her on the third try.
CONCLUSION:
Some warriors suck. You may go on a bad luck spree, and encounter lots of sucky tanks. To say, and I quote evilfourty;
Quote:
Warriors on the other hand, well.... suck.
is short sighted, and an insult to the class. Go watch Kungen tank, hell, come watch me tank; not all warriors suck. Many of us apply those five sunders, many of us tank heroics in greens/blues just fine. Open your eyes; heroic can be a pain or a blessing; PUGs can be a pain or a blessing; prot warriors can be a pain or a blessing.
WoW can be a pain or a blessing.
Thou shalt meditate on this, young one.
42 posts
I won't argue with u about paladins being able to hold aggro well, that's not what they're good at, since it's not really what they're meant to do, off tank maybe but main tank I'd take a good Protection warrior any day of the week.
My sunder armor comments, well I hear so many warriors say don't attack until I have 2 Sunders on him, so what am I going to quote?
And I'm not targetting all warriors, I know some very good tanks, who are a dream to work with, I am pointing out what has become a nasty and very worrying trend.
My sunder armor comments, well I hear so many warriors say don't attack until I have 2 Sunders on him, so what am I going to quote?
And I'm not targetting all warriors, I know some very good tanks, who are a dream to work with, I am pointing out what has become a nasty and very worrying trend.
Quote:
I won't argue with u about paladins being able to hold aggro well, that's not what they're good at, since it's not really what they're meant to do, off tank maybe but main tank I'd take a good Protection warrior any day of the week.
DO NOT say this on the Pally board...ever. :-)
Disclaimer: Paladense in no way, shape, or form endorses the above statement regarding Tankadins.
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 10:43am by Paladense
Quote:
I won't argue with u about paladins being able to hold aggro well, that's not what they're good at
Wrong. Pallies have such an easy time because of how they work. As long as the mob hits them at least a few times before the DPS starts, it's difficult to pull them off. A warrior's advantage is, with better gear, more of the really fast aggro generation that's needed in T5 and above. In fact, you've relegated them to "offtank" status - offtanks are forced to generate threat without being hit much, certainly no where near as often as the main tank, which pallies suck at. They're either main tanks, or AoE tanks, not offtanks, because they'll never be able to build aggro under someone else.
"Wait for 2 sunders" means two Sunder debuffs, even though it's Devastate that they're using. If they're Prot that is.
Waiting to 30% to start healing is BAD. The warrior will panic and generate aggro even worse, because now he thinks he has to try to keep himself alive too. If the DPS hasn't pulled aggro off a single mob, there's no way you will with just healing, as long as you don't throw off a huge heal right at the start.
Though there is some disparity in the method and ability in which the different tanking classes hold aggro, it is widely accepted that warriors are the best at holding threat on a single target while palys are best for multi-target threat generation. Even so, I believe the problem that you are encountering is not a class-specific problem, but rather a lack of skill in the tanks you have been playing with. A good tank, whether it be a warrior, paly, or druid, should be able to hold aggro on at least one mob so long as the dps is waiting a sufficient amount of time for threat generation at the beginning of pulls. Honestly, though, I believe that less than 50% of the tanks I run into in PuGs can do this. I suspect there is an even smaller percentage skilled enough to properly tank multiple mobs...maybe as low as 10-15%. The fact is simply that a lot of people don't play their classes optimally, and this is often most noticeable in the case of tanks and healers. When I do find a good tank or healer, I tend to add them to my friends list immediately for future groups. I would suggest doing the same, as it is unrealistic to expect the skill of millions of players to increase significantly any time soon.
Quote:
I won't argue with u about paladins being able to hold aggro well, that's not what they're good at, since it's not really what they're meant to do, off tank maybe but main tank I'd take a good Protection warrior any day of the week.
SOrry. Wrong.
Tankadins provide the best multi target aggro and good single target aggro.
Warrios provide the best single target aggro and good multi target aggro.
Paladins are great tanks. Their only problem comes in later raid boss fights where certain bosses shift through phases and dump all aggro. A pally just can't climb back up the aggro charts quickly like a warrior or druid can. Other than that though they make awesome tanks.
42 posts
Ooops I think I upset some paladins... I think I'll go crawl into a corner and cry, this wasn't quite what I intended :)
A warrior that has never tanked before 70 can often not tank in any heroics at 70. Why? Tanking takes practise. Start tanking at lower levels and you get experienced. You'll learn to use things as sunder/taunt/revenge and all other stuff you normally wouldn't use. Want to tank at 70, but never tanked before? Go get tanking experience by running lowerlevel non-heroics (not too low).
Just to add something: reasons why warriors can suck as tanks.
1. No use of shield. Healers often like to see a shield for extra armor/blockchance/abilities that require shields. Tanks wielding 2-handers or duel wielding just want to DPS. They often suck as a tank.
2. No use of sunder armor/taunt/revenge. These warriors think: "why should I want to do less DPS, lol?" These tanks are retarded.
3. Not chasing/taunting mobs which are running of (to healer, DPS'r or just to get some of their fellow mobs to help).
4. Allowing the healer to die.
5. Keep building aggro on just one mob till it's dead (other mobs will run often to the healer if a tank does this)
6. They start pulling when a healer says any of the following: OOM, MB, AFK, BRB or "DON'T PULL, YOU DAMN FOOL, I AM NOT READY YET"
Btw, tankadins can be great, I've seen them, thy are rare, but they exist.
Just to add something: reasons why warriors can suck as tanks.
1. No use of shield. Healers often like to see a shield for extra armor/blockchance/abilities that require shields. Tanks wielding 2-handers or duel wielding just want to DPS. They often suck as a tank.
2. No use of sunder armor/taunt/revenge. These warriors think: "why should I want to do less DPS, lol?" These tanks are retarded.
3. Not chasing/taunting mobs which are running of (to healer, DPS'r or just to get some of their fellow mobs to help).
4. Allowing the healer to die.
5. Keep building aggro on just one mob till it's dead (other mobs will run often to the healer if a tank does this)
6. They start pulling when a healer says any of the following: OOM, MB, AFK, BRB or "DON'T PULL, YOU DAMN FOOL, I AM NOT READY YET"
Btw, tankadins can be great, I've seen them, thy are rare, but they exist.
Quote:
Ooops I think I upset some paladins... I think I'll go crawl into a corner and cry, this wasn't quite what I intended :)
Not upset a pally, I just hate ignorance and try to kill it brutally ;) Hence why I pointed out that pallies DO generate incredible threat. There. Ignorance dead.
:D
If a warrior is tanking a boss and a healer pulls off him, I'm sorry but that warrior is horrible.
Now I'd like to add a caution here. If you were with a tank that overgeared the instance by a lot, lets say a raid tank, he would not be taking much damage, thus not generating much rage and so his threat would suffer a lot. I'd be surprised if healing pulled the mob off him, but dps would have to be a lot more careful. This is why it's good for a tank to have a few dps pieces around.
On the first boss in mech, I find I'm quite rage starved, and if the healer is having to heal everyone there is a possibility that your healing aggro might outdo the tanks, but I'd be really really surprised.
Now I'd like to add a caution here. If you were with a tank that overgeared the instance by a lot, lets say a raid tank, he would not be taking much damage, thus not generating much rage and so his threat would suffer a lot. I'd be surprised if healing pulled the mob off him, but dps would have to be a lot more careful. This is why it's good for a tank to have a few dps pieces around.
On the first boss in mech, I find I'm quite rage starved, and if the healer is having to heal everyone there is a possibility that your healing aggro might outdo the tanks, but I'd be really really surprised.
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Hmm. I am only commenting on the mech remark. I have a druid tank and have done mech sooo many times on heroic and non (bloody cloak never drops).
The first boss on non heroic can sometimes be hard to keep agro on.
This is due to the fact that the red shield comes up within the first few seconds of the fight. If the tank dps's whilst red is up he will die fairly rapidly. So most tanks choose to not dps when its up. Now given that the fight has just started, agro has not been established. Ranged dps will kick in and forget that the tank isnt gathering agro and consequently the boss will loose his position and UFOs will reign on the group.
2 solutions:
1) Acknowledge this and dont start up dps for a little while.
2) Heal the tank through the red shield and let him dps and shield wall (if warr).
For my 2 cents I think pally tanks have excellent agro.
The other thing about tanks is that sometimes they gear too much towards being able to take a hit and consequently cant give much punch in their hits. Hence they arent getting enough agro. This will generally improve as they gear up more.
Edit: I take it you are constantly pom'ing the tank?
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 5:33pm by Minxete
The first boss on non heroic can sometimes be hard to keep agro on.
This is due to the fact that the red shield comes up within the first few seconds of the fight. If the tank dps's whilst red is up he will die fairly rapidly. So most tanks choose to not dps when its up. Now given that the fight has just started, agro has not been established. Ranged dps will kick in and forget that the tank isnt gathering agro and consequently the boss will loose his position and UFOs will reign on the group.
2 solutions:
1) Acknowledge this and dont start up dps for a little while.
2) Heal the tank through the red shield and let him dps and shield wall (if warr).
For my 2 cents I think pally tanks have excellent agro.
The other thing about tanks is that sometimes they gear too much towards being able to take a hit and consequently cant give much punch in their hits. Hence they arent getting enough agro. This will generally improve as they gear up more.
Edit: I take it you are constantly pom'ing the tank?
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 5:33pm by Minxete
42 posts
Hmmm Ok I'd take the last persons point and say maybe the tank does have a problem with that boss. And I'd leave the issue there. But it still leaves the glaring fact that before we got to that boss we wiped three times cos the tank lost agro. Don't get me wrong I realise healing generates aggro, and some spells more than others, I've even got omen installed so I'm not a complete numpty (btw a fair few of the tanks I'm complaining about don't), and whilst I agree I should throw bad tanks back, everyone has to start somewhere.
With my guild tank his aggro shoots up almost immeadiately and I can't break the tanks aggro unless it's a long fight, even then the tanks probably dead when that happens cos I've run out of mana. And for those checking my armory, yes it's not great gear, but hey, it's a fairly new lvl 70 priest and I play instances regularly with my hunter and I'm seeing the same thing there, logic dictates therefore if other priests are having the same or similar problems, the tanks need to learn what to do or be honest and become a DPS.
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 6:01pm by Tyranise
With my guild tank his aggro shoots up almost immeadiately and I can't break the tanks aggro unless it's a long fight, even then the tanks probably dead when that happens cos I've run out of mana. And for those checking my armory, yes it's not great gear, but hey, it's a fairly new lvl 70 priest and I play instances regularly with my hunter and I'm seeing the same thing there, logic dictates therefore if other priests are having the same or similar problems, the tanks need to learn what to do or be honest and become a DPS.
Edited, Feb 6th 2008 6:01pm by Tyranise
Quote:
Some warriors suck. You may go on a bad luck spree, and encounter lots of sucky tanks. To say, and I quote evilfourty;
Quote:
Warriors on the other hand, well.... suck.
Quote:
Warriors on the other hand, well.... suck.
That was taken a little out of context. I am not saying that all warriors suck. Just that I have been running into more and more that do. My first choice on my tank list is a warrior friend of mine, the second person I call on is a Pally.
I am just saying for pugs I have been noticing more of the 10% that you speak about.
What class were they? You forgot to mention.
I found that druids have the hardest time being tanks, simply due to not being able to make enough threat to protect the rest of us. Has nothing to do with how many hits they can take, fortunately.
I did Mana Tombs a couple times with my priest, and we had a druid tank each time. And, I would pull agro really easily if I started healing. It was a good thing I was not the main healer, but still, we had a few bad fights because of that.
Same thing happens in the few raids I seen. I could not be my group's healer, because the tank was a druid.
I found that druids have the hardest time being tanks, simply due to not being able to make enough threat to protect the rest of us. Has nothing to do with how many hits they can take, fortunately.
I did Mana Tombs a couple times with my priest, and we had a druid tank each time. And, I would pull agro really easily if I started healing. It was a good thing I was not the main healer, but still, we had a few bad fights because of that.
Same thing happens in the few raids I seen. I could not be my group's healer, because the tank was a druid.
Ok well if you wiped a couple of times prior to even the first boss then there is definately a problem with the tank - being either gear or tactics.
As I said before if they gear too much for avoidance, they may be at risk of not being able to keep threat (assuming blues and greens here).
Or it could be technique.
For example, if I'm in a group with 1 cc and it is a 4 pull (as is often in mech), then I'll mark up the dps targets as skull first, x second and circle third.
When I pull ill starfire circle, as casting switch to x and moonfire him once starfire done, then immediately switch to bear and ff+mangle skull. This gives me threat immediately on all 3 non cc'd chars. Once I've laid a couple of hits on the main dps target I'll then swipe the others to keep threat up across all.
Warriors (from my understanding) do similar things whereby they will often switch targets, lay down a sunder and switch back in order to keep threat across all.
Just double checking the pom thing - remember that pom does threat to the receiver not the caster so ensuring that you pom up the tank means more threat to them. I only say this as I was in a kara pug the other day and the healing priest did not know this. Their response was "Sheez - I should be using it all the time then!".
As you were the person getting the agro I am assuming it wasnt because of the dps'ers severely out gearing the tank.
If it was a paladin tank and no righteous fury up... that could also be the problem.
As I said before if they gear too much for avoidance, they may be at risk of not being able to keep threat (assuming blues and greens here).
Or it could be technique.
For example, if I'm in a group with 1 cc and it is a 4 pull (as is often in mech), then I'll mark up the dps targets as skull first, x second and circle third.
When I pull ill starfire circle, as casting switch to x and moonfire him once starfire done, then immediately switch to bear and ff+mangle skull. This gives me threat immediately on all 3 non cc'd chars. Once I've laid a couple of hits on the main dps target I'll then swipe the others to keep threat up across all.
Warriors (from my understanding) do similar things whereby they will often switch targets, lay down a sunder and switch back in order to keep threat across all.
Just double checking the pom thing - remember that pom does threat to the receiver not the caster so ensuring that you pom up the tank means more threat to them. I only say this as I was in a kara pug the other day and the healing priest did not know this. Their response was "Sheez - I should be using it all the time then!".
As you were the person getting the agro I am assuming it wasnt because of the dps'ers severely out gearing the tank.
If it was a paladin tank and no righteous fury up... that could also be the problem.
Since you asked this question in the warrior forums as well I am posting my response here second quoted section:
Additionally, I saw a post about pally tanks, and planned to respond, however it seems some have and it was resolved, in fact there were complaints in the warrior forums about why people were picking pally tanks over warrior tanks:
HERE IS MY POST FROM THE WARRIOR FORUM TO YOUR ORIGINAL POST :)
Then I see people complaining there arent enough tanks, then one finally finds some tanks willing to tank and they are not willing to help. Just respectfully decline them if you see that you dont have the necessary gear, or offer to help them gear up or learn more by running with them through other instance for experience, before you know it, youll have more tanks that DO know what to do and you may even get a couple you can attach to your hip as both you and the tank gear up. Or if you dont want to be bothered then refer them to other places as my second quote suggests, such as here and just look for a new tank.
The healer/tank relationship is a tenuous one at best and to start building up that corp is great, one reason I rarely PUG even for dailies, heroics, and normals while leveling. Sometimes its unavoidable, but if I at least have a decent Tank/Healer combo, then the rest usually falls into place pretty well.
Additionally, I saw a post about pally tanks, and planned to respond, however it seems some have and it was resolved, in fact there were complaints in the warrior forums about why people were picking pally tanks over warrior tanks:
Quote:
prot being excluded?
Posted: Feb 1st 2008 8:35pm | IP: Logged | Reply... Reply to this
marklartank
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9 posts
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i've been in outlands for 4 levels now, and whenever i'm questing i always go LFG for whatever. a few nights ago, i get a whisper:
whipser: what spec war?
me: prot
whisper: boo
so then this person spams general chat for the next 30 minutes with "LF DPS for ramps". i check out the group, they have a 65 pally tank. wtf? is the difference in dps really going to matter in ramps with a 65 tank? finally, no takers and i get another whisper: can you dps at all?
me: well, i do carry a weapon
i get an invite, join the group and the run is very easy. i keep up battle shout, hamstring and devastate (no threat problem with 65 pally). yes, i'm last on dps meter, but not terribly.
the next night, another whisper (different person): what spec war?
me: prot
whisper: k, nvmd
me: because i'm prot?
whisper: just looking for dps
i check out the group, another prot pally tank and i never hear back from them.
the next night, another whisper: what spec?
me: prot
whisper: hmm, me too (pally)
<long pause>
whisper: ok you tank, i think i can heal ramps
run goes fine. i die once by the first boss, but we get a tree druid to heal and the rest is easy.
so, i have two questions:
1) where did all the prot pallys come from and are they now the preferred tanking class?
2) why are people so picky about what classes to bring to the early outland instances? does it really matter if you down vazruden in 3 minutes or 3.5 minutes?
Posted: Feb 1st 2008 8:35pm | IP: Logged | Reply... Reply to this
marklartank
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i've been in outlands for 4 levels now, and whenever i'm questing i always go LFG for whatever. a few nights ago, i get a whisper:
whipser: what spec war?
me: prot
whisper: boo
so then this person spams general chat for the next 30 minutes with "LF DPS for ramps". i check out the group, they have a 65 pally tank. wtf? is the difference in dps really going to matter in ramps with a 65 tank? finally, no takers and i get another whisper: can you dps at all?
me: well, i do carry a weapon
i get an invite, join the group and the run is very easy. i keep up battle shout, hamstring and devastate (no threat problem with 65 pally). yes, i'm last on dps meter, but not terribly.
the next night, another whisper (different person): what spec war?
me: prot
whisper: k, nvmd
me: because i'm prot?
whisper: just looking for dps
i check out the group, another prot pally tank and i never hear back from them.
the next night, another whisper: what spec?
me: prot
whisper: hmm, me too (pally)
<long pause>
whisper: ok you tank, i think i can heal ramps
run goes fine. i die once by the first boss, but we get a tree druid to heal and the rest is easy.
so, i have two questions:
1) where did all the prot pallys come from and are they now the preferred tanking class?
2) why are people so picky about what classes to bring to the early outland instances? does it really matter if you down vazruden in 3 minutes or 3.5 minutes?
HERE IS MY POST FROM THE WARRIOR FORUM TO YOUR ORIGINAL POST :)
Quote:
Throwing my half cent in here. It is has become abundantly clear that there are an influx of tanks recently. Unfortunately, as many of my comrades here have said, most do not take the time to learn and feel if they have a sword and board and throw talents in protection, they can tank anything.
Most of anything I could say has been said, ie, levelers who at 70 think they can automatically do heroics with improper gear, talent abuse, general lack of knowledge, a majority of players who are under the age of adulthood and in alot of cases could be even prepubescent thus not having a mature approach to group play. They see a raid, ooooh I wanna, they see arena, ooooh I wanna, they see Heroic something oooooh I wanna, and they hear that tanks and healers are always in need so they "attempt" to roll one. With 9, I think it has grown to 10M subscribers, you will get that quite a bit. Everyone wants the BEST of everything, the BEST gear, the BEST spec, the BEST class, and so on and think if they do it, then it will magically happen.
Hell Ive even run across those "experienced" players with great gear that still had no clue, and most respond as, well I got this gear didnt I so I cant be half bad, no, they just do it half assed.
My tank is primarily another tanking class, while I am leveling my warrior, the issues I have come across are truly unbelievable sometimes. Impatience, whether young or old, is inexcusable. Everyone wants to to rush and gets pissed when they die...
Some tanks truly want to learn and were focused on leveling that they rarely stepped foot in instances and require the appropriate learning curve, helping on lower level outlands dungeons are a good way to go, as well as those experienced, such as yourself, giving them THAT opportunity to grow. As long as they are up front with you and they need some experience, then help them. The more we do that, the more we will have tanks that are not as inept, particularly those that will never read wowwiki, alla, wowhead, or any of those other sites...so the only "guide" would be you or others who are willing to share their experience. Helping them get geared up to do the job.
The more and more we help one another out in the game, the better of you will be in the end, and I mean you in a general sense, not necessarily the OP. Even if you dont have the time to help gear them up, tell them where to go, or offer some advise on talents, or direct them to these boards.
Many warriors can offtank most things very well even in another tree, have them do that and work with a MT to learn a bit more, the warrior OT will provide a good deal of DPS as well. Also strap a hunter to your hip, they do have that talent/spell I think that focuses all aggro on the tank or whoever is marked, Mark of Death I think? Ive seen it but not sure if it is a talent, spell or other, but it is there.
The best guide are those people who are willing to help, as the good tanks in the game are the ones that usually were helped at one point or another, if they are not willing to learn or accept it, fine, tell em to f off and die, LOL JK, but ignore works well too :)
Most of anything I could say has been said, ie, levelers who at 70 think they can automatically do heroics with improper gear, talent abuse, general lack of knowledge, a majority of players who are under the age of adulthood and in alot of cases could be even prepubescent thus not having a mature approach to group play. They see a raid, ooooh I wanna, they see arena, ooooh I wanna, they see Heroic something oooooh I wanna, and they hear that tanks and healers are always in need so they "attempt" to roll one. With 9, I think it has grown to 10M subscribers, you will get that quite a bit. Everyone wants the BEST of everything, the BEST gear, the BEST spec, the BEST class, and so on and think if they do it, then it will magically happen.
Hell Ive even run across those "experienced" players with great gear that still had no clue, and most respond as, well I got this gear didnt I so I cant be half bad, no, they just do it half assed.
My tank is primarily another tanking class, while I am leveling my warrior, the issues I have come across are truly unbelievable sometimes. Impatience, whether young or old, is inexcusable. Everyone wants to to rush and gets pissed when they die...
Some tanks truly want to learn and were focused on leveling that they rarely stepped foot in instances and require the appropriate learning curve, helping on lower level outlands dungeons are a good way to go, as well as those experienced, such as yourself, giving them THAT opportunity to grow. As long as they are up front with you and they need some experience, then help them. The more we do that, the more we will have tanks that are not as inept, particularly those that will never read wowwiki, alla, wowhead, or any of those other sites...so the only "guide" would be you or others who are willing to share their experience. Helping them get geared up to do the job.
The more and more we help one another out in the game, the better of you will be in the end, and I mean you in a general sense, not necessarily the OP. Even if you dont have the time to help gear them up, tell them where to go, or offer some advise on talents, or direct them to these boards.
Many warriors can offtank most things very well even in another tree, have them do that and work with a MT to learn a bit more, the warrior OT will provide a good deal of DPS as well. Also strap a hunter to your hip, they do have that talent/spell I think that focuses all aggro on the tank or whoever is marked, Mark of Death I think? Ive seen it but not sure if it is a talent, spell or other, but it is there.
The best guide are those people who are willing to help, as the good tanks in the game are the ones that usually were helped at one point or another, if they are not willing to learn or accept it, fine, tell em to f off and die, LOL JK, but ignore works well too :)
Then I see people complaining there arent enough tanks, then one finally finds some tanks willing to tank and they are not willing to help. Just respectfully decline them if you see that you dont have the necessary gear, or offer to help them gear up or learn more by running with them through other instance for experience, before you know it, youll have more tanks that DO know what to do and you may even get a couple you can attach to your hip as both you and the tank gear up. Or if you dont want to be bothered then refer them to other places as my second quote suggests, such as here and just look for a new tank.
The healer/tank relationship is a tenuous one at best and to start building up that corp is great, one reason I rarely PUG even for dailies, heroics, and normals while leveling. Sometimes its unavoidable, but if I at least have a decent Tank/Healer combo, then the rest usually falls into place pretty well.
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