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Shammy advice against roguesFollow
14 posts
Im new to posting forums so if i mess it up plz forgive me. I have a question i have a lvl 67 shammy 40 into elemntal and the last 21 into resto so im able to heal quite well and get the instant cast as well as rock with lightning, i have average gear for my level and every instance ive run ive been #1 in the damage charts somethin i love about my shammy is they can also take a beating now the question i have is why do i always get my *** kicked by rogues no matter what i do if they dont stunlock my for the entire fight and kill me like that they just vanish and ambush me again i was just seein if any other shammies out there can give me some advice thx alot for yer time
Alexandretta 67 shammy[poll]
There is only one defense we have for Rogues: PvP gear. I could get really in depth and give you an if-they-do-then-you-do theorycrafting synopsis, but... the bottom line is, there is absolutely no substiture for raw armor, stamina, and resilliance. To be able to beat Rogues you first have to be able to survive them because you're just not going to win a DPS race with them under any circumstances. Their tools > our tools.
Got jumped by a rogue? Is he mace spec? I have the solution! Wait for him to kill you and get the drop on him ext time there is really nothing else to do. Otherwise resilience and health (in essence PvP gear)
29 posts
Well for starters i disagree with the need of pvp gear, not saying its not nice but were talking about an equally geared character your against, so regardless of gear you would be on equal terms. If world pvp is the problem your having with rogues, there is a simple answer. Gain 1 more level and get the fire ele totem. So when your sittin there stun locked youll at least be putting out some decent dps. Only other advice i can give is to make sure your poison cleansing totem is up asap so if by chnce you trinket out of the right stun u might have the chance to gain some seperation. At that point spam your instant spells, get off natures swift for a heal ( added with a potion is even better ), and while all thats going on the ele should still be hacking away at him. From my expiereice thats gonna be pretty much your best bet. I cant say what stun is the best to trinket out of because theres just too many.. not to mention if he has preparation. As for battlegrounds, well its group oriented combat. So unless your one of the clowns running around by yourself you shouldnt see too much pure 1 vs 1 with anyone, let alone a rogue. Im not even gonna mention arena's cause the thought alone makes me sick... youll know soon enough... anyway good luck to ya
Define "equally" geared? There's nothing EQUAL about this game what so ever :P And on that note, there's nothing "equal" between a Shaman and a Rogue in PVP. Hell you can have a NAKED rogue facing off against a Shaman, and the odds still favor the rogue!
Fact of the matter of what the previous posters are saying, is that "typically" speaking...as a shaman your going to have to "survive" their initial attack, and the uncontested onslaught that WILL follow. Rogues have the tools to get the first shot, and we unfortunetly don't have reliable tools to prevent that. Sure you can argue that "well if I have this that and the other totem" down, that will "help". And situationally...it might. Course thats based all on the assumption that you "KNEW" a rogue was going to attack at a specific moment, NOT a luxury a rogue gives typically. That type of situation is something more akin to "dueling" a rogue...but dueling is NOT pvp!
Fact is that PvP gear excels in STAM, Armor and Res, which sad to say is our "defense" against rogues (notice I didn't say full proof defense). Goal is to outlast their stunlock, and run their energy gauge into the ground, at which point we finally a very small window of time to counter attack...assuming you lived!
Now, what do you do once your out of the lock? Well you can waste about 6 seconds trying to get a full spread of totems down to "start" fighting them (not something I recommend since 6 seconds is enough time for them to get energy back for their skills). Perhaps you can get maybe ONE heal off, and start a counter attack, or you can role the dice and hope you can get one attack off and 1-2 shot them. Either way, you only got a second or 2 to make your choices, because a "good" rogue is gonna hit you with SOMETHING, which typically means your about to get locked up again..and your not going to live thru a second onslaught.
That pretty much sums it up. Rogues are better at PvP than we are. Course arguably we're better at PvE than they are...but thats a different topic.
Fact of the matter of what the previous posters are saying, is that "typically" speaking...as a shaman your going to have to "survive" their initial attack, and the uncontested onslaught that WILL follow. Rogues have the tools to get the first shot, and we unfortunetly don't have reliable tools to prevent that. Sure you can argue that "well if I have this that and the other totem" down, that will "help". And situationally...it might. Course thats based all on the assumption that you "KNEW" a rogue was going to attack at a specific moment, NOT a luxury a rogue gives typically. That type of situation is something more akin to "dueling" a rogue...but dueling is NOT pvp!
Fact is that PvP gear excels in STAM, Armor and Res, which sad to say is our "defense" against rogues (notice I didn't say full proof defense). Goal is to outlast their stunlock, and run their energy gauge into the ground, at which point we finally a very small window of time to counter attack...assuming you lived!
Now, what do you do once your out of the lock? Well you can waste about 6 seconds trying to get a full spread of totems down to "start" fighting them (not something I recommend since 6 seconds is enough time for them to get energy back for their skills). Perhaps you can get maybe ONE heal off, and start a counter attack, or you can role the dice and hope you can get one attack off and 1-2 shot them. Either way, you only got a second or 2 to make your choices, because a "good" rogue is gonna hit you with SOMETHING, which typically means your about to get locked up again..and your not going to live thru a second onslaught.
Quote:
Their tools > our tools
That pretty much sums it up. Rogues are better at PvP than we are. Course arguably we're better at PvE than they are...but thats a different topic.
14 posts
thx fer all the advice about the topic im glad im not the only one who has this problem other than havin the odd rogue kill me every so often, the shaman has to be the most fun character ive ever had
There's not a lot you can do vs a good rogue. The tactic I have most luck with, is just kiting. Keep lightning shield up instead of water, frost shock every time its off cooldown, and run to your teamates, hope one of them will help you out. Without help, your probably going to die.
Frostshock + Poison Cleansing totem = your best defense.
Frostshock + Poison Cleansing totem = your best defense.
6 posts
Just get res gear, but to beat a rogue you should go restoration. With earthshield on, and stun trinket with res gear , your imortal to the rogue.
Use flame, or fire ele, frost shock or earthbind and keep turning. The only way hes going to kill you is if your out geared or he calls for back up or mana issue. Save your instant heal for when hes about 1/4 health. Remeber to use a mana pot when it gets to the end of it, cause he will just keep killing your flame totem, so you will have to keep casting it, but if you got the mana, you win, use mana tide . use the poison totem at the start after stuns. Its very simple , its just gear. also, earth shield up always. he will run unless help comes.
Restoration PWNS rogues 1v1, but you have to get res gear, farm bg and hit arena and get a set. It all helps on any shammy build , but with restro its so much eaiser , and earth shield ftw!
Use flame, or fire ele, frost shock or earthbind and keep turning. The only way hes going to kill you is if your out geared or he calls for back up or mana issue. Save your instant heal for when hes about 1/4 health. Remeber to use a mana pot when it gets to the end of it, cause he will just keep killing your flame totem, so you will have to keep casting it, but if you got the mana, you win, use mana tide . use the poison totem at the start after stuns. Its very simple , its just gear. also, earth shield up always. he will run unless help comes.
Restoration PWNS rogues 1v1, but you have to get res gear, farm bg and hit arena and get a set. It all helps on any shammy build , but with restro its so much eaiser , and earth shield ftw!
Surving a rogue that just jumped you? I've found one way that is sure to kill him;
Bring a raid
This message was sponsored by shamans who really, really hate rogues
Bring a raid
This message was sponsored by shamans who really, really hate rogues
If you are going to trinket a stun, you trinket kidney shot.
If you trinket cheap shot (the initial stun), they're just going to hit you with kidney shot and stun you again.
So, trinket kidney shot, poison cleansing totem, frost shock + earthbind, and try and get some separation.
If you have either of your eles use them. The earth ele doesn't do as much damage as the fire ele but it's a distraction.
If you trinket cheap shot (the initial stun), they're just going to hit you with kidney shot and stun you again.
So, trinket kidney shot, poison cleansing totem, frost shock + earthbind, and try and get some separation.
If you have either of your eles use them. The earth ele doesn't do as much damage as the fire ele but it's a distraction.
The best thing a shaman can do against us rogues is to keep their distance. Drop a grounding totem so we can't get near you and then fire away with your spells. Repeat everytime we get close.
That's one of our downfalls. We practically have NO range (minus any learned skill like guns,etc.) and even then, we can't do as much damage as we should.
This is my advice from a rogue to shammy (plus the fact that I have a 45 shammy myself).
That's one of our downfalls. We practically have NO range (minus any learned skill like guns,etc.) and even then, we can't do as much damage as we should.
This is my advice from a rogue to shammy (plus the fact that I have a 45 shammy myself).
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
If you are going to trinket a stun, you trinket kidney shot.
If you trinket cheap shot (the initial stun), they're just going to hit you with kidney shot and stun you again.
If you trinket cheap shot (the initial stun), they're just going to hit you with kidney shot and stun you again.
You shouldn't trinket a stun at all. You're going to be stunned against a Rogue. Constantly. This is just a reality you're going to have to accept. Between Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot, and Mace Stun (which like 99% of them are sporting in PvP), any stun you get out of is just going to be replaced by a new one.
You should always, always, always save your trinket for Blind. Even if you bowl a 300 against the Rogue, if he can Blind + Vanish then you probably just lost because he can bandage and then start his opening routine again from the top. Worst case scenario, the Rogue is going to skulk off and eat 'til his health is full and then come back and try again.
Here is your best bet against fighting a rogue...
Take your hands off the keyboard. Turn around, cover your ears and scream "LALALALALALA". Sure your mom/boyfriend might get pissed at the noise, but this is going to get ugly.
Grounding totem? That only works on spells. I'm sure you mean earthbind totem, and even then they nerfed it to where it no longer breaks your stealth or effects your speed in stealth.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 9:44am by Draeneipally
Take your hands off the keyboard. Turn around, cover your ears and scream "LALALALALALA". Sure your mom/boyfriend might get pissed at the noise, but this is going to get ugly.
Quote:
Drop a grounding totem so we can't get near you and then fire away with your spells. Repeat everytime we get close.
Grounding totem? That only works on spells. I'm sure you mean earthbind totem, and even then they nerfed it to where it no longer breaks your stealth or effects your speed in stealth.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 9:44am by Draeneipally
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