Mage vs Warlock?Follow

Don't have a lock, becuz I leveled a hunter to 58 before getting bored and a buddy warned me playstyle is somewhat similar (pet tanks while you dps) and I should try something else. Very happy to have rolled a mage.

1.) Depends, generally mage, especially in 5 mans. But warlocks have strange situational CC (banish,enslave). Overall I'd say mage.

2.1) Wow big question. In raiding, both are there for DPS, but theres more reason to stack locks because of their utility (curses for the raid, imp shadowbolt up more often increases dps of shadow priests and other warlocks). The charges get eaten up quickly, so more locks the better. Mages? No other class really benefits from imp scorch, and if no fire mages were brought to a raid, that's just an extra dps curse for a lock to use instead of curse of elements (~133 extra dps).

Still theres a ton of mages, and I've almost never heard of a raid without mage slots. They pump out very competitive DPS, bring strong AOE, sheep is often invaluable on trash, and who doesn't want free mana biscuits?

2.2) Don't really want to get me started on PVP, but I'll say warlocks are better there, and many of the old "mage only" setups (2345, PMR) are replacing their mages with warlocks (2346, PWL).

3.) Warlocks are more efficient at grinding/leveling period.

4.) No



So according to me, you might not see alot of reason to roll a mage. Roll one for the FUN of it if you want, but sadly I'm going to have to say warlocks are a better designed class. They'll level faster, PVP better, at least tie mages in DPS, beat them more often then not, have better stacking utility in raids, stronger AOE, better raid survivability.

Ok.. now here's my 2 cents

1. Sheep is overall pretty damn awesome. But enslave/banash can shine in certian situations. I'm still going to have to give the edge to sheep since it can be used in more situations.. for pve and pvp.

2a. In optimum situations locks can beat a mage in DPS.. sorry guys.. but it's true. But in WoW any retarded can install and play the game. Sadly enough most of them choose to roll locks. So you will tend to see alot more crappy locks then you do mages. Mainly because lvling a lock is like playing Eddie Gordo in Tekken. Select target, roll face on keyboard, dead target. That tends to give locks some bad rep in raids and pugs. But even so a 25 man with 3 mages, 3 locks, and 2 spriest in there will pwn. All 3 are going to be close and any good raid leader will make room for all 3 classes.

2b. Lock have the upperhand in PvP. Simply because they give more classes a hard time then mages do. Leaving shammys out (since every class is the anti-sham) really only warriors have major issues with mages. Locks can do great damage WHILE running away. Mages really can't.

3. Having a lvl 70 mage and lvl 70 lock I belive that mages lvl much faster. 2 shotting every mob you see is just plain quick. However, locks lvl alot... well safer for lack of a better word. If you get out of your comfort zone then lvling a mage can have some issues. Hard to lvl when your dead. But if you keep up with gear a mage will kill faster then a lock and therefore lvl faster.

4. I don't think "no" is the perfect answer to this. In alot of situations.. yes. But with the same gear, in a fight where the mage can just stand there and DPS the crap out of somthing.. it's going to be really close.

Not just classes, but specs too since Destro-locks gear differently than Aff Locks and fire mages gear a bit differently than frost mages.

I was even speaking of late T5 where almost all warlocks spec destruction (0/21/40) and benefit greatly from stand still fights just like mages do.

I know there might be some "well I outdps locks" but theres so many variables. Quite often I see raid leaders not properly min/maxing to put locks in an optimal spot for DPS. ie: 3 mages, ele shaman and shadow priest in a group, well duh that's gonna favor mages. Locks really have to fight to get stuck in a sick caster group like boomkin/

But put an equally geared late T5 lock vs. a mage, in good groups (shadow priest, ele shaman, boomkin), put lowest DPS locks on raid curses, highest DPS lock on CoD, have shadow priests and geared destruction locks in the raid (for more ISB), I think warlock pretty much always wins. The best geared mage could have the lesser geared mages keep up imp scorch, I still think locks pull out ahead. Shadowbolts do MASSIVE damage in a destro setup, and we have more synergy with the raid then fire mages do ATM (shadow priests, other locks for ISB, CoS).

Decurse. I'm not saying it's everything, but it popped into my head when I read that statement.

Yes its all very true, Warlocks are the current king of AOE, they have a better damage output in raids, and more often than not you feel that you where brought along for your mana biscuits.
Mages are Not a bad class, it has just become a situational class, f.eks. mages are still the best kiting class in raids, and they are still able to damage nearly equal to warlocks in a pure nuking fight, in addition to this our evocation may not be as good as the warlocks lifetap, but it does not make the life tougher for the healers.
Resilience is not a curse against mages as much as it is against warlock, it affects periodical damage aswell as crit, which tends to complicate a warlocks road to glory far more than a mages road.
Endgame the roles of the mage and the warlock are nearly identical, stand and nuke as much as you are able to, while staying alive, the damage will be drifting some days the mage might be at the top of the damage meters, others the warlock, there will probably be more days with the warlocks since shadowbolts deal the same amount of damage as fireball, and have less casting time, but hey thats what fireblast are supposed to make up for.

(all this is relying on the warlock using the Destro:40/demo:21 build since that is the most common endgame raiding build)

Still i have never regretted rolling mage, i manage to at times shine in raids, and overall i find mages most funny, though you have to be more skilled as a mage to launch the same amount of damage as a warlock.

i hope this clarified the differences between the classes.

To be fair, fear is probably the better PvP CC. Even with DR, the ability to damage the player while they run is great.

Plus, if I am not mistaken, it may be used vs. Druids, which is huge.

Wrong.

I have a level 70 Warlock and if you think taking a Warlock to a battleground on a killing spree only requires you to keep track of Fear and Drain Life, you'll fail tremendously in all aspects.

The Warlock class is, of the two in question, by far the most complicated one to play well. I have no experience in anything past 5-man instances (non-Heroic) as far as PvE goes, so I won't comment on that, but in PvP...

Let's just say that if you're up against anything that utilizes fast melee damage, you're screwed. Every 3 minutes you can blow Death Coil to gain some distance on the attacker, followed by Fear, which he'll most likely break. You can toss on the DoT spells, but you'll probably be dead before they chew through his health, not to mention most people have ways to counter DoT spells, if not by healing themselves or dispelling the debuffs, then by simply waiting to leave combat and eating to outlast the damage. I've tried just about every talent build there is for my Warlock and I still Fail with a capital F when I do PvP.

The thing is, you can't rely on crits, instant casts or shields to prevent you from losing casting time. With the right talents you can get some spell pushback protection when casting various spells, but you rely a great deal on being left alone and giving your spells time to do their thing. If someone spots you and singles you out, you're in for a rough time, unless you're wearing all epics, have Soul Link running with your Voidwalker out and about 300 resilience. Maybe then you'll unlock God Mode, I don't know.

Speaking of Voidwalker, that's another thing about Warlocks that makes them much more complex than the Mages. You have to choose the right demon minion for the right situation. Using your Felhunter against spellcasters is kind of like winning the lottery, but your opponent might as well be a Warrior (with no buffs to eat and no spells to lock) who'll rip your Felhunter a new one along with you.

Some will tell you to go with a Demonology build, to get Soul Link, Demonic Knowledge, Master Demonologist and Demonic Resilience. Pretty neat build, but unfortunately it relies a great deal on your demon to stay alive. Let's use the before mentioned situation where you encounter a Warrior with your Felhunter out. You've blown Fel Domination so you can't insta-summon a better demon and doing a 6-second summoning is suicide.

You have your Soul Link which basically reduces all incoming damage by 20%. That's like wearing plate armor as a spellcaster. Neato, right?

Then there's Demonic Knowledge which takes your demon's stamina and intellect, put it together and gives you 15% as spelldamage. Also pretty neato. Gives around 100-200 spelldamage.

Then Master Demonologist, which, with your Felhunter out, increases your magical resistances by x amount. Also great, maybe not so much against a Warrior who has zero magical abilities. But still.

Now, let's say the Warrior has half a brain and notices your many Demonology buffs on you. He won't switch target to your pet, because that'll allow you to get off a Fear or whatnot. He'll simply use Cleave, Whirlwind and any other multi-target attacks he can find. Since your pet receives the damage your Soul Link absorbs, it'll drop like a rock. And once your demon is gone, Soul Link, Demonic Knowledge and Master Demonologist goes with it. Buh-bye.

That's what many anti-Warlock crybabies forget about. They just see a Warlock with 12,000 health, 300 resilience and Soul Link and goes "OMG HE'S INDESTRUCTIBLE LIEK CONCRETE!" and they totally forget that not all Warlocks run around with that kind of gear and more than once the opponent has the brains to figure out that killing the demon makes the Warlock very sad. Sad like a sad panda.

Anyway, that was a little sidetrack on Warlock vs. Mage in PvP. I would definitely prefer to play a Mage there, simply because Mages have so many instant cast spells at their disposal. But it's a matter of personal taste, I guess.

Welcome back to the game. Two years is a long time considering the major overhauls this game has gotten since then. Hope you'll like it.

Edited, Feb 7th 2008 12:03am by Mazra

Err..what? You mean the AoEs?

Ice Barrier and Ice Block being defensive, but still instant, I'll give you. Water Elemental is a summoned pet on a fairly long cool down. Not something I'll concede. CoC, AE, DB and BW are AoEs, not something I'll concede, especially since 3 of the 4 have decent cooldowns and I was specifically asking if he meant AoEs(yeah, Maz is a he, or at least looks like one in his pics).

Really, offensively, that leaves Fireblast, Ice Lance and Frost Nova. Two have a cooldown, one is used for control, not damage and one is completely useless as a real damage dealer without special conditions.

2 minutes cooldown. Glad you nkow your class well.

Seriously Mazra, you get your *** kicked on your Warlock because of two things:

a) You're a really poor player, at least when it comes to in game knowledge. Trinket cheap shot moar!
b) You've made it abundantly clear you have **** gear. Yes, you can't tank Warriors whilst gaining health from them till you have 350 resilience. Everyone who is interested in high end PvP/ being competetive has that by now. And by high end, I mean 1500+. Your dependency on gear to survive shows how little skill comes into your class and how much gear does - all your defense, save fear, is passive. For soem reason you mentoned Fear and Warrior in the same sentence, so this is highly fortunate for you.

Here's a tip on Warriors for you: POSITION YOUR PET OUT OF MELEE RANGE OF YOURSELF. Amazing, isn't it?

On another note, let's play a game, mazra. We'll call it the instant casting game. You know who deals most damage from isntants in PvP? Warlocks. That's part of the reason Warlocks are replacing Mages in 2v2 and 3v3 - a mage's damage is shut down far more easily.

I'd go on to mention factors that make mages harder, such as kiting, playing vs casters, moving correctly (don't have to worry about that on your lock) but really, I don't think I need to.

yeah sorry my abbreviations might could have used a bit more explanation.

I was just trying to see where he could possibly be coming from Poldarn. The wall of text laid out before me seemed somewhat close to a rant and devoid of logical warlock (let alone mage) thought processes.

To get back to the OP a mage will shine in AOE grinding. In quick (but worrisome) levels and in decent, albeit, highly skill/gear focused pvp.

A warlock will shine in being much easier to pick up. After you get your voidwalker and fear...people tend to get a complex : P

Deeps will be very high. Locks have a nice versatility where, unlike mages, all talent trees won't look the same in the end.



I love both my lock and my mage. I came back to the game after a long absence and you know what the first thing I wanted to pick up was? That is where a mage will shine IMHO