Hello fellow druids!
I am resto and sitting at around 1400 healing bonus. My mana pool is around 9.6k and I have something like 180mana per 5 sec while casting.
My question.. is it possible to main heal an heroic? People tend to say druid healer cant manage an heroic.
I only have 1 green (a trinket that gives +55 healing) and working toward lower city prayer book (which is +70). Other than that, no more greens, lots of epic from Kara (including 2x T4 pieces). What do you think?
My build isn't that important since I'll respec in the next day to go full resto (no more points in balance to ease the soloing.. ;))
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Judging by your +heal you should have no problem main healing heroics. I main with a little less than 1200 +heal and about 9.6k mana with no problem. I'm in mostly blues with a a few epics from kara, badges, amd PvP.
I'm not sure how the "druids can't heal heroics" rumors started but I have seen nothing to make me think that a druid would have any more trouble than another healing class. The only issue that I have had is my own survivability. A pally could definitly take more punishment than I can but idealy the healer shouldn't be getting hit anyways.
I'm not sure how the "druids can't heal heroics" rumors started but I have seen nothing to make me think that a druid would have any more trouble than another healing class. The only issue that I have had is my own survivability. A pally could definitly take more punishment than I can but idealy the healer shouldn't be getting hit anyways.
The problem tree druids have with healing heroics is simply that it's not an ideal situation for us. On boss fights, tree form and HoTs can't keep up with the significant chunks of damage the tank will be taking and it forces us to spam healing touch or regrowth. It's perfectly doable mind you, but just not the kind of healing us tree druids were designed for. It took me a few boss fights to get the hang of it (timing is very important to keep the tank up), but I can solo heal heroics just fine. Just ignore the rumors and do your best.
the guild where I am made me heal heroic Arc yesterday. It went.. fairly well. With 1400 healing, I could keep the tank healed in tree form. The hots were enough + regrowth were enough. The guys with the meteor were a pain but manageable :)
The hardest part of all this, was the dps! 2 moonkins and a rogue. The moonkins were pulling aggro some times... and we didn't mark at all! In fact.. thinking about it... I saw no CC at all! But again, except the dumb pull (you know, try to find the 2 stealthed gal, before bosses #2 and #3, with an aoe was kinda.. lame since he pulled both of them!).
I cant wait to do another one tho! =)
The hardest part of all this, was the dps! 2 moonkins and a rogue. The moonkins were pulling aggro some times... and we didn't mark at all! In fact.. thinking about it... I saw no CC at all! But again, except the dumb pull (you know, try to find the 2 stealthed gal, before bosses #2 and #3, with an aoe was kinda.. lame since he pulled both of them!).
I cant wait to do another one tho! =)
I did my first two Heroics this weekend as a ToL Main Healer in my group. We started with Ramparts. For reference, I'm at 953+ Healing, 9.6k Mana and around 266 MP5 total.
Ramparts was tough, and my first Heroic healing. As a Resto Druid, it's tough to keep up with the big hitters & crits in Heroics. Regrowth doesn't provide enough consistency with spike healing and crits aren't something we should rely on. 3x LB and Rejuv stacked kept up fairly well on trash. A lot of the problems were not being prepared for new situations in the Heroic setting. We struggled with Omor until we used the ranged DPS tactic and let the Mage tank. Went down fast. We wiped on the 3rd boss after two attempts and called it due to some frustration.
The next night we tackled Slave Pens. Things went much smoother, know what to expect now. However, and I'll stress this...no matter how good a healer you are, it's always a bonus to have a backup/secondary healer in a Heroic, IMO. My wife switched to a hybrid Resto/Elem Shaman Build before we started doing Heroics because we knew we'd need some more reliable backup healing. It helped tremendously on situations where the tank two crits back to back, and the spike heal would help me out tremendously. All in all though, she only healed a lot on trouble pulls or bosses, otherwise she was casting when things were going smoothly (which was often). So Pen's went well.
I'm rather under geared and did just fine IMO. Again, a lot of my trouble was not knowing what to expect and using new strategies. So yes, Druids can main heal heroics...although I would stress more than any other healing class, that backup healing is almost a necessity more so for a Druid than any other healing class.
Edited, Feb 4th 2008 10:09am by Ryneguy
Ramparts was tough, and my first Heroic healing. As a Resto Druid, it's tough to keep up with the big hitters & crits in Heroics. Regrowth doesn't provide enough consistency with spike healing and crits aren't something we should rely on. 3x LB and Rejuv stacked kept up fairly well on trash. A lot of the problems were not being prepared for new situations in the Heroic setting. We struggled with Omor until we used the ranged DPS tactic and let the Mage tank. Went down fast. We wiped on the 3rd boss after two attempts and called it due to some frustration.
The next night we tackled Slave Pens. Things went much smoother, know what to expect now. However, and I'll stress this...no matter how good a healer you are, it's always a bonus to have a backup/secondary healer in a Heroic, IMO. My wife switched to a hybrid Resto/Elem Shaman Build before we started doing Heroics because we knew we'd need some more reliable backup healing. It helped tremendously on situations where the tank two crits back to back, and the spike heal would help me out tremendously. All in all though, she only healed a lot on trouble pulls or bosses, otherwise she was casting when things were going smoothly (which was often). So Pen's went well.
I'm rather under geared and did just fine IMO. Again, a lot of my trouble was not knowing what to expect and using new strategies. So yes, Druids can main heal heroics...although I would stress more than any other healing class, that backup healing is almost a necessity more so for a Druid than any other healing class.
Edited, Feb 4th 2008 10:09am by Ryneguy
Ryneguy wrote:
I did my first two Heroics this weekend as a ToL Main Healer in my group. We started with Ramparts. For reference, I'm at 953+ Healing, 9.6k Mana and around 266 MP5 total.
Ramparts was tough, and my first Heroic healing. As a Resto Druid, it's tough to keep up with the big hitters & crits in Heroics. Regrowth doesn't provide enough consistency with spike healing and crits aren't something we should rely on. 3x LB and Rejuv stacked kept up fairly well on trash. A lot of the problems were not being prepared for new situations in the Heroic setting. We struggled with Omor until we used the ranged DPS tactic and let the Mage tank. Went down fast. We wiped on the 3rd boss after two attempts and called it due to some frustration.
The next night we tackled Slave Pens. Things went much smoother, know what to expect now. However, and I'll stress this...no matter how good a healer you are, it's always a bonus to have a backup/secondary healer in a Heroic, IMO. My wife switched to a hybrid Resto/Elem Shaman Build before we started doing Heroics because we knew we'd need some more reliable backup healing. It helped tremendously on situations where the tank two crits back to back, and the spike heal would help me out tremendously. All in all though, she only healed a lot on trouble pulls or bosses, otherwise she was casting when things were going smoothly (which was often). So Pen's went well.
I'm rather under geared and did just fine IMO. Again, a lot of my trouble was not knowing what to expect and using new strategies. So yes, Druids can main heal heroics...although I would stress more than any other healing class, that backup healing is almost a necessity more so for a Druid than any other healing class.
Ramparts was tough, and my first Heroic healing. As a Resto Druid, it's tough to keep up with the big hitters & crits in Heroics. Regrowth doesn't provide enough consistency with spike healing and crits aren't something we should rely on. 3x LB and Rejuv stacked kept up fairly well on trash. A lot of the problems were not being prepared for new situations in the Heroic setting. We struggled with Omor until we used the ranged DPS tactic and let the Mage tank. Went down fast. We wiped on the 3rd boss after two attempts and called it due to some frustration.
The next night we tackled Slave Pens. Things went much smoother, know what to expect now. However, and I'll stress this...no matter how good a healer you are, it's always a bonus to have a backup/secondary healer in a Heroic, IMO. My wife switched to a hybrid Resto/Elem Shaman Build before we started doing Heroics because we knew we'd need some more reliable backup healing. It helped tremendously on situations where the tank two crits back to back, and the spike heal would help me out tremendously. All in all though, she only healed a lot on trouble pulls or bosses, otherwise she was casting when things were going smoothly (which was often). So Pen's went well.
I'm rather under geared and did just fine IMO. Again, a lot of my trouble was not knowing what to expect and using new strategies. So yes, Druids can main heal heroics...although I would stress more than any other healing class, that backup healing is almost a necessity more so for a Druid than any other healing class.
wow! at 1200healing bonus I was not feeling ready.. and at 1400 I'm still unsure! Gratz to you on going at 953 (no sarcasm intended at all!)
On another note, I tanked heroic UB, in my tanking gear I have 13.5k hp (unbuffed), 426 def (I have some gems to switch) and only 19.5k armor. A tree druid with 1600 healing stayed in ToL form all the fights and kept me alive without struggle. If you tank got critted back to back 2 times, I can easily guess he is not "uncrittable". I know we can get critted (I got critted once on some trash even though I had 415def) even with maxing out the def or resilience; but two times back to back, it's very very unlucky!
nbouchard wrote:
wow! at 1200healing bonus I was not feeling ready.. and at 1400 I'm still unsure! Gratz to you on going at 953 (no sarcasm intended at all!)
Well, it's a Guild/Family 5-man group I run with, so we're pretty consistant & have a good group dynamic. We've been kinda doing things ahead of time for quite some time now because we didn't find much to hold us back. 953+ Healing is with Wrath of Air totem buff up, so I'm at 853+ base (which is really low). We've struggled with drops though, and haven't had much luck for me, or our Rogue...so we figured instead of boring ourselves to death running SH & TK instances over and over again til we're blue in the face, we would just start the easier Heroics to gear & get badges.
I could definitely feel the strain of being below 1000+ Healing, though. I only got by cause we've got a good tank and a good routine to get crap done. I would fail in a PuG...bottom line, and I know it. I consumed -way- more Mana than usual, though, which at times posed a problem (especially on Crackler in Pens). So I can say I wasn't ready, just went with a good group and worked it out.
Yes, the pally isn't uncrushable yet. Like I said, we've suffered a long string of Mail/Cloth combo drops, and while the pally's got some nice gear, he could still be better off. Hopefully a few Heroics will change that, even if not full clears.
Ryneguy wrote:
Well, it's a Guild/Family 5-man group I run with, so we're pretty consistant & have a good group dynamic. We've been kinda doing things ahead of time for quite some time now because we didn't find much to hold us back. 953+ Healing is with Wrath of Air totem buff up, so I'm at 853+ base (which is really low). We've struggled with drops though, and haven't had much luck for me, or our Rogue...so we figured instead of boring ourselves to death running SH & TK instances over and over again til we're blue in the face, we would just start the easier Heroics to gear & get badges.
I could definitely feel the strain of being below 1000+ Healing, though. I only got by cause we've got a good tank and a good routine to get crap done. I would fail in a PuG...bottom line, and I know it. I consumed -way- more Mana than usual, though, which at times posed a problem (especially on Crackler in Pens). So I can say I wasn't ready, just went with a good group and worked it out.
Yes, the pally isn't uncrushable yet. Like I said, we've suffered a long string of Mail/Cloth combo drops, and while the pally's got some nice gear, he could still be better off. Hopefully a few Heroics will change that, even if not full clears.
The joy of gearing! I do feel your pain. I got lucky on my resto gear, the guild helped me a lot with kara (last run I got 6 resto drops and 2 dps gear). I was 5-man farming before that and I had difficulties to find gear (and group) that would be an update.
I wish you luck to you and your friends :)
Quote:
The problem tree druids have with healing heroics is simply that it's not an ideal situation for us. On boss fights, tree form and HoTs can't keep up with the significant chunks of damage the tank will be taking and it forces us to spam healing touch or regrowth. It's perfectly doable mind you, but just not the kind of healing us tree druids were designed for.
What are u talking about???? HoTs cant keep up the tank?
Did u ever play a healing druid?
When all hots are up we are the best healer for single-targets...
and if u need to go out of tree-form then ur not rly good at your job...
(or the tank is too low equipped, but then no healer can keep him up)
sry for the offense but ppl shouldnt write absolutely wrong stuff to ppl who ask questions...
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 9:52am by druidserg
Quote:
What are u talking about???? HoTs cant keep up the tank?
Did u ever play a healing druid?
When all hots are up we are the best healer for single-targets...
and if u need to go out of tree-form then ur not rly good at your job...
(or the tank is too low equipped, but then no healer can keep him up)
sry for the offense but ppl shouldnt write absolutely wrong stuff to ppl who ask questions...
Did u ever play a healing druid?
When all hots are up we are the best healer for single-targets...
and if u need to go out of tree-form then ur not rly good at your job...
(or the tank is too low equipped, but then no healer can keep him up)
sry for the offense but ppl shouldnt write absolutely wrong stuff to ppl who ask questions...
In heroics your average pug tank's health will go down too fast in situations and you will need big heals, even with Lifebloomx3 regrowthx1 rejuvx1, so therefor it wouldn't be the fact the druid's not good at their job, or that the tank is low equipped (Though this can contribute to it).
I have healed all heroics as Full points resto, however I don't use TOL very often because I don't enjoy it, the only places I use it are Heroic bm/The last boss in heroic SH/ZA because it's close to necessary there.
It's not "wrong" to go out of tree form, why should it be? we have perfectly good and mana efficient HT when using the correct ranks. Using our own spells when we see fit or when we want shouldn't be considered "Not doing our job"
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 6:21am by Fauxreal
Lukoi wrote:
The problem tree druids have with healing heroics is simply that it's not an ideal situation for us. On boss fights, tree form and HoTs can't keep up with the significant chunks of damage the tank will be taking and it forces us to spam healing touch or regrowth. It's perfectly doable mind you, but just not the kind of healing us tree druids were designed for.
Fauxreal wrote:
In heroics your average pug tank's health will go down too fast in situations and you will need big heals, even with Lifebloomx3 regrowthx1 rejuvx1, so therefor it wouldn't be the fact the druid's not good at their job, or that the tank is low equipped (Though this can contribute to it).
I don't really agree with this. I'm currently sitting on 1600 +healing and I just keep a stack of lifebloom and rejuvenation rolling on the tank. I use swiftmend on boss fights, but I (nearly) never use Regrowth. It is absolutely no problem to heal heroics in ToL form, when your tank is decently geared. (This means uncrittable and decent health pool)
Well that's the problem. We're not necessarily thinking rolling with people that are already geared and approaching Heroics as "on farm", more of entry level where we're there to get geared up so we can put them on farm status. Most Tanks (especially PuG tanks) aren't going to be uncrushable in their first Heroic run. Although we'd all love for that to be the case as healers! :P
Sure, sitting with 1600+ Healing with a Tank that has around 490 Def is going to give favorable conditions to the healing situation in any Heroic.
Sure, sitting with 1600+ Healing with a Tank that has around 490 Def is going to give favorable conditions to the healing situation in any Heroic.
Quote:
What are u talking about???? HoTs cant keep up the tank?
Did u ever play a healing druid?
When all hots are up we are the best healer for single-targets...
and if u need to go out of tree-form then ur not rly good at your job...
(or the tank is too low equipped, but then no healer can keep him up)
sry for the offense but ppl shouldnt write absolutely wrong stuff to ppl who ask questions...
Did u ever play a healing druid?
When all hots are up we are the best healer for single-targets...
and if u need to go out of tree-form then ur not rly good at your job...
(or the tank is too low equipped, but then no healer can keep him up)
sry for the offense but ppl shouldnt write absolutely wrong stuff to ppl who ask questions...
Yes, I've played a resto druid since last June. If I stay in treeform and let my tank die I'm not doing my job either.
Quote:
I don't really agree with this. I'm currently sitting on 1600 +healing and I just keep a stack of lifebloom and rejuvenation rolling on the tank. I use swiftmend on boss fights, but I (nearly) never use Regrowth. It is absolutely no problem to heal heroics in ToL form, when your tank is decently geared. (This means uncrittable and decent health pool)
Sure, now that I have +1838 bonus healing and the tanks in my guild are geared for SSC I can keep them up with HoTs. That doesn't mean druids with +1200 bonus healing should stay in tree form and try to do the same, wondering what the hell happened when the tank dies in 3 or 4 hits. Every heroic group I've been in has been a little different. It depends on everyone's gear whether I can sit in ToL and stack HoTs or whether I need to spam a direct heal to get us through a tight spot. It's all about being flexible and learning as you go.
From a tanking perspective, I always cringe when I see a druid in tree form going to try to heal me in heroics, especially when I see we're going to be fighting some big hitting guys, like the destroyers in mech. Those 1k heals per second are nice, but when he's hitting me for 4k with 1500 arcane following it, I need those big heals. I'm not saying it's impossible for a druid to heal a heroic, just shift out and rejuv and HT me... please?
As for tanking heroics before uncrit/uncrush, it doesn't really matter if they are uncrushable. You want them to have high avoidance, sure, but they don't need to be uncrushable because the mobs in heroics can't crush. Uncrittable however, is easy enough to obtain, and if you see a tank who is still crittable (under 485 defense for heroics) who wants to do a heroic, explain why they can't tank the instance then rightfully boot them from the party.
As for tanking heroics before uncrit/uncrush, it doesn't really matter if they are uncrushable. You want them to have high avoidance, sure, but they don't need to be uncrushable because the mobs in heroics can't crush. Uncrittable however, is easy enough to obtain, and if you see a tank who is still crittable (under 485 defense for heroics) who wants to do a heroic, explain why they can't tank the instance then rightfully boot them from the party.
CapJack of the Seven Seas wrote:
From a tanking perspective, I always cringe when I see a druid in tree form going to try to heal me in heroics, especially when I see we're going to be fighting some big hitting guys, like the destroyers in mech. Those 1k heals per second are nice, but when he's hitting me for 4k with 1500 arcane following it, I need those big heals. I'm not saying it's impossible for a druid to heal a heroic, just shift out and rejuv and HT me... please?
The strenght of the druid is the shapeshifting. It's normal to go from tree to caster whenever needed! I won't stop myself casting Healing touch (which can crit to almost 8k atm) because I dont want to shapeshift!
Same thing as your tank, if you see a tree druid that dont want to switch form.. kick him!
Even feral specced I haven't had any real problem keeping a tank up with HoTs(not that I heal heroics very often). If you are resto & have your swiftmend etc then all that would ever be needed would be a NS+HT macro for emergencies. I really can't see any other time that you should need anything more than your 3 HOT's & swiftmend.
I think our healing is fine for heroics, it's survivability that becomes the issue. A pally healer can take more punishment than we can. And if your cc breaks down or tank can't hold two, that does matter.
I have to go druid form for some bosses to get HTs in (the ones that hit for 4-6K) but usually I just stay in tree and keep HOTs up. I can do it fine if we have the CC and a good tank.
1600 healing, 9.3K mana, 150Mp5 while casting, self buffed
I have to go druid form for some bosses to get HTs in (the ones that hit for 4-6K) but usually I just stay in tree and keep HOTs up. I can do it fine if we have the CC and a good tank.
1600 healing, 9.3K mana, 150Mp5 while casting, self buffed
nbouchard wrote:
On another note, I tanked heroic UB, in my tanking gear I have 13.5k hp (unbuffed), 426 def (I have some gems to switch) and only 19.5k armor. A tree druid with 1600 healing stayed in ToL form all the fights and kept me alive without struggle. If you tank got critted back to back 2 times, I can easily guess he is not "uncrittable". I know we can get critted (I got critted once on some trash even though I had 415def) even with maxing out the def or resilience; but two times back to back, it's very very unlucky!
I just want to point out that if you have survival of the fittest and 415 defense you will never get crit. There is not a small chance, it's absolute reduction to 0. Did you not have SotF?
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 4:49pm by Xsarus
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
[quote=nbouchard]
I just want to point out that if you have survival of the fittest and 415 defense you will never get crit. There is not a small chance, it's absolute reduction to 0. Did you not have SotF?
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 4:49pm by Xsarus
I just want to point out that if you have survival of the fittest and 415 defense you will never get crit. There is not a small chance, it's absolute reduction to 0. Did you not have SotF?
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 4:49pm by Xsarus
Actually, I think the way it works there's always a small % chance to get critted even if you are "uncrittable." Not common at all but it happens.
nbouchard wrote:
On another note, I tanked heroic UB, in my tanking gear I have 13.5k hp (unbuffed), 426 def (I have some gems to switch) and only 19.5k armor. A tree druid with 1600 healing stayed in ToL form all the fights and kept me alive without struggle. If you tank got critted back to back 2 times, I can easily guess he is not "uncrittable". I know we can get critted (I got critted once on some trash even though I had 415def)
Druids only need 415 Defense for uncrittable if you have 3/3 Survival of the Fittest. As far as healers go, the only reason I prefer Paladins, Priests, or Shamans is for the extra buffs. BoK/Fort/Grace of Air totem are all a lot better than the extra +5 stats from the resto druid's 5/5 IMotW.
Edit... nevermind I was wrong
Edit again, maybe not as wrong as I thought, here's an interesting article about getting crit even though you are at full defense:
http://www.evilempireguild.org/guides/critcrush.php
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 3:56pm by CapJack
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 4:04pm by CapJack
Edit again, maybe not as wrong as I thought, here's an interesting article about getting crit even though you are at full defense:
http://www.evilempireguild.org/guides/critcrush.php
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 3:56pm by CapJack
Edited, Feb 5th 2008 4:04pm by CapJack
This is an idiotic question, of course you can main heal heroics.
I'm baffled as to why you thought that we can't, and even more baffled at why you're getting rated up.
I'm baffled as to why you thought that we can't, and even more baffled at why you're getting rated up.
As most people have stated yes you can easily heal in a heroic. I have found with a decently geared tank when I have the 3 stack of lifebloom along with rejuvenation going that in most trash instances this is more than enough.
For the most part I can stay in tree form - if it's a boss I may need to throw in one of the oh **** heals with the 21 point talent that I can't think of the name of right now.
For the most part I can stay in tree form - if it's a boss I may need to throw in one of the oh **** heals with the 21 point talent that I can't think of the name of right now.
Sorry, I meant uncrittable, not uncrushable. For reference, the Pally tank I run with is at 505 Def, 12.8k Armor, 13% Dodge, 16.5% parry, 27% Block, 10.5k Health...so he's fairly well off for the most part. The real problem is the 1k+ dmg per hit taken from big hitters, and if/when they're non-CC controllable and the tank has to deal with more than one (or the tank takes one and an offtank takes another). That's when Resto's start to have a hard time without a secondary healing class to back them up, IMO. (At least in my case :P)
And yea, anyone skilled enough & geared fairly well can handle healing a Heroic. I don't really think anyone here is saying Druids can't heal Heroics. If I can do it with under 1k+ Healing, I think it's definitely manageable for the most part. It's whether we can do it without backup that's in question, and at what point we're ready for that.
And yea, anyone skilled enough & geared fairly well can handle healing a Heroic. I don't really think anyone here is saying Druids can't heal Heroics. If I can do it with under 1k+ Healing, I think it's definitely manageable for the most part. It's whether we can do it without backup that's in question, and at what point we're ready for that.
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