Dragon's Breath?Follow

You know... I have the same question. After reading the tooltip and referencing my play style, I decided I don't need it yet, if ever.

I'm not a raider and I pretty much always run with a friend, so I think the stun portion of it is pretty well unnecessary for me.

It sounds nice, but I have yet to find a need for it. So if anyone's got some solid advice on when/how to use or if it's necessary for non-raiders, that would be groovy info to have :)

In PvP Dragon's Breath is a God send to a tree that already sucks for Pee-veee-pee.

To be honest, Dragon's breath is a nice spell though, and while grinding you really shouldn't be using any AoE's besides nova...

Is it valuable in PVP because it's another instant cast or because it's actually useful? The stun - I guess - could stop a cast or something, but most of the casts I face are instant, plus most of the casts are from distance - so the local AOE effect really wouldn't be used.

As for AOE in Solo play - mostly I mean for the purposes of a double pull, a hard mob that I want to instant cast to hasten kills, or, like you mentioned - Nova, Blink/Backup, Cast.

I love my Dragon Breath. I don't use that stun time to try and get distance, instead I go right into a fireball. By the time the stun wears off the spell is
nearly done and the enemy has one swipe in at best before being tagged.

These are words to live by for a Mage. Instants = godsend in Oshi situations, this is true for everyone, and for a wimp like a Fire Mage this is exceptionally true.

As others have said too, while fire is not the best PVP spec, in WPVP and in random PVP situations fire can still hold up itself relatively well, and DBreath is and awesome addition.

Now the point of having 40 in Fire to allow 21 in another tree is a decent one, although if you really take a good look and a Deep Fire mage, it doesn't make much sense.

Most deep fires have more than 41 Talents in Fire in the first place - so taking out the 1 point from DBreath still wouldn't allow 21 in another spec. Where Ice and Fire collide becomes even more obvious with a 0/40/21 build from which no good comes (rofl), and even in a 21/40/0 you're looking at severly gimping PVE to boost PVP abilities with a build that doesn't PVP in the first place...

Plus would you rather have that PoM Pyro once every 3 minutes or a DBreath every 20 seconds? Think about it.

While Dragon's Breath isn't essential to a Fire Mage's ******* generally, it is by no means a wasted talent, especially considering your other options.

Yup, same here...and it does come in handy waiting that extra second for frost nova to come off cooldown when adds attack.

Yeah, i do use 1 through "=" for my keybindings.... I figure either way you are using 2 hands, just got used to it i guess...

Also, using 7 as the AE is easy cause if I'm getting to the point where I'm using AE - I'm either doing it 1x to finish something off (think bugs in Tarnasis) or I'm totally screwed and I'm just hitting 7 till I win/lose the fight. So looking at the keys for 1second isn't a huge deal.

hahah.


Anyway thanks for the replies everyone.

Dragon's breath was basically a nice spell, to make the firetree, which sucked in PvP until we got IB from trainer, better in PvP. This way we could at least down some other players without getting totally owned on a regular basis.

In some cases and versus some classes it was actually better then frost IMO.

For now I do not know if the firetree is worth jack in PvP. There are just a few things that concern me about the spells. I am talkin about arena PvP here, and situations that require some skill.

Upsides are:
-3 secs total silence and no action from the target (exept if he pops the PvP-trinket)
-high damage output
-stuns
-dazing with blastwave

Downside:
-2 of the most useful firespells scale REALLY sucky with your gear (Dragon's breath and Blastwave, who are both sitting at 14% damage+)
-Most slowing effects are stronger/equally strong as the daze, negating its effect
-lower surviveability than frost due to the lack of cold snap and ice barrier

"All in all I'd say in theory fire is just a nice grinding/Raidspecc, with its mana-efficiency and high damage, and DB is just a nice add-in to not make you totally suck in PvP when it comes down to it." This would be my certain answer before the path with IB. Now I've PvPed some, and I'm specced frost. I cannot say for sure, if Fire or frost is better for PvP now, but what I can say for sure is: DB is not a grinding spell. And on top Its no use at all if you are a slow clicker, who can not even use any spell while he is disorientated, because he is too slow. And the PvP aspect won't come into play then either, because you are going to loose anyways.

While I'm here I can as well ask the question that personally interest me: Is fire any use in high-end-PvP? In theory I'd really like those tools like DB, because in theory they are amazing versus the classes I hate most: PvP-healers.
On the other hand I'm personally of the opinion that especially the spells I'll be using most (scorch DB, blastwave) gain too few spelldamage to negate all the resil and HP those Guys have. So while I'm sucky geared (and my enemies also), those spells own, but now that I'm full on PvP epics (nearly) and I'm also up against similar geared guys, they got more HP now, they dampen the damage I do with resil, and my shiny spells do nearly the same damage as when I just hit lvl 70....

Is anyone here convinced that I overlooked something? Fire ownz PvP zomg?

Groar what you say is true in big enough situations... but 3v3 and 2v2 (especially) the whole "lower surviveability than frost due to the lack of cold snap and ice barrier" is true to a much greater degree.

With the general addition of Ice Block, it is true that all mages have some form of survivability boost (mostly for knocking off debuffs/DoTs), but Ice still drastically outlasts once engaged.

And after SPriests and Warlocks, Mages are the first to get targetted - obnoxious Mages even before. Why do you think so many Warlocks have moved over to SL/SL -- ALL that build is meant to do is last longer - a good 20-25% at that - but it's a nasty hit to effectiveness in PVP since they no longer can put quite the pressure on their enemies (no SBurn, no IHoT, no UA, no Shadowfury, no Castthrough, and bad +damage.)

Something similar can be said about ice -- but there is definatly a reason to spec into it. Sure your damage may drop a good percent, but as Warlocks quickly learn it's better to do less DPS and stay alive longer on a general scope. Especially when Mages/Locks are in the same boat in a lot of CC options.

Even with some of the recent changes (Iceblock namely) the effectiveness of Ice in low number Combat/Spellbattles still dominates over Arcane or Fire.

I've been fire for a while now. Initially, I resisted getting DB because it looked weak to me, especially for a 41 pt talent. However, I finally decided to get it and try it out and I've been very pleased with it.
First of all, I do not PvP at all, so I cannot address what seem to be very legitimate issues concerning the viability of this talent in PvP. I can speak to my personal use of this talent in PvE though.
Initially, I will note that the spell is very cost effective compared to our other AoE options. I use it in two situations: first, I use this spell in normal AoE situations with the following rotation:
I run up next to the mob and cast Flame Strike ----> Frost Nova -----> (Back up)----> Flame Strike -----> (Nova Breaks) -----> Dragon's Breath -----> Blast Wave -----> (If not dead) -----> AE ----> AE ----> Ice Block
I like it because it is another fire AoE spell and is capable of a crit, causing ignites.
The other time I use it is in an OH SH#@ situation. It is basically the same rotation as above, except without the Flame Strikes. Still dishes out quite a bit of damage. The critical thing that the DB provides is the 2 sec delay that is needed to live through the global cooldown on Blast Wave. Once Blast Wave goes off, you can blink away and put down some good distance while Nova cools down.
Otherwise, I found myself dying as 5-6 mobs hit me while I was waiting in Global Cooldown. Dunno, some food for thought.