Hi everyone,
I'm not a Shaman, but my guild recently started referring to Kaliban's loot list for loot distribution in Karazhan (http://www.wow-loot.com/raid_kara.htm). One of my guild's Enhancement Shaman's wants to know why Hunters and Rogues have priority over Enhancement Shammy's for Garona's Signet Ring.
But to be able to answer him, I need to know: How important is AGI to Enhancement Shamans? Is it as important as it is to hunters and rogues (pretty much their primary stat)?
Thanks for your help!
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How important is AGI?Follow
The hit is the reason the shaman should want it, not the agility
That was my thought, which is why rogues and hunters, who would benefit from the AGI, should have priority over Shamans.
But I think he admitted this as well, indirectly: he said the exalted Kara rep ring is better than Garona's. I think we'll be able to come to an agreement.
But I think he admitted this as well, indirectly: he said the exalted Kara rep ring is better than Garona's. I think we'll be able to come to an agreement.
Well, you can wear 2 rings so why not have Violet Signet of the Master Assassin and Garona's?
Anyway, AGI is only important to enhancement shamans for the amount of crit chance it gives them. I believe for an enhancement shaman, 25 agi = 1% to crit (this is just off of some unequip/reequip tests so I'm not entirely positive).
However, rogues and hunters get crit% AND AP from agi, so it should be defaulted to them first unless it would be a huge upgrade for the shaman but only a minor upgrade for the rogue/hunter.
Enhancement shamans do not have to focus on +hit nearly as much as rogues and fury warriors do. Shamans get 9% to hit from talents if they spec correctly and being able to keep flurry up all the time via crit% will lead to higher DPS numbers than stacking hit rating.
Anyway, AGI is only important to enhancement shamans for the amount of crit chance it gives them. I believe for an enhancement shaman, 25 agi = 1% to crit (this is just off of some unequip/reequip tests so I'm not entirely positive).
However, rogues and hunters get crit% AND AP from agi, so it should be defaulted to them first unless it would be a huge upgrade for the shaman but only a minor upgrade for the rogue/hunter.
Enhancement shamans do not have to focus on +hit nearly as much as rogues and fury warriors do. Shamans get 9% to hit from talents if they spec correctly and being able to keep flurry up all the time via crit% will lead to higher DPS numbers than stacking hit rating.
Yup, each point of agility can be regarded as a little less than one crit rating in most situations, and equal to one point of crit rating if you regularly get Kings (same for dps warrior and ret pallies). It does more for rogues and hunters since it gives crit (albiet at almost half the rate) and AP.
Also, hit isn't very important, and as a result the Exalted Violet Eye ring is almost beating out by blue rings, not to mention the other rings in Kara. Using standard item weights, the Exalted is worth ~91AP, Garona's ~101.2AP, Netherspite ~96AP, and the Prince ring ~116.6AP (keep in mind this just means that equipping said items would be worth about the same damage increase as an item with that much AP, not that they somehow provide that much AP, and keep in mind it varies based on a person's gear).
EDIT: By the way, I don't think that site is good enough when you're really looking at gear. It looks at it in a void, doesn't compare it to other pieces outside the armor class, and so on. For example, it says spriests are the first tier for Lightning Capacitor, when in reality it's outdone by level 60 blue trinkets. Another example is that it gives tertiary priority of the leather chest off Karathress to enhance shammies, and fury warriors aren't even listed, even though it's the best chest possible until T6 for them.
Edited, Jan 31st 2008 4:22pm by lsfreak
Also, hit isn't very important, and as a result the Exalted Violet Eye ring is almost beating out by blue rings, not to mention the other rings in Kara. Using standard item weights, the Exalted is worth ~91AP, Garona's ~101.2AP, Netherspite ~96AP, and the Prince ring ~116.6AP (keep in mind this just means that equipping said items would be worth about the same damage increase as an item with that much AP, not that they somehow provide that much AP, and keep in mind it varies based on a person's gear).
EDIT: By the way, I don't think that site is good enough when you're really looking at gear. It looks at it in a void, doesn't compare it to other pieces outside the armor class, and so on. For example, it says spriests are the first tier for Lightning Capacitor, when in reality it's outdone by level 60 blue trinkets. Another example is that it gives tertiary priority of the leather chest off Karathress to enhance shammies, and fury warriors aren't even listed, even though it's the best chest possible until T6 for them.
Edited, Jan 31st 2008 4:22pm by lsfreak
Thanks for all your thoughts, I appreciate it.
Bigdaddyjug: Rather than Garona's, how about Exalted Kara ring plus Ring of a Thousand Marks?
Isfreak: You're right, that site is somewhat limiting. What we did was take the Kara loot list as a foundation, then edit it appropriately, but we're just getting started with the editing part. As our E Shaman pointed out, the same mail gear that I think is crap for hunters is also crap for E Shamans. But it's still better for us than Fury Warriors, which isn't saying much--some of that mail gear is just trash.
But again, agreed on all points about looking at it in a void, which is a significant issue. Hopefully my guild can take that into account when revamping it.
Bigdaddyjug: Rather than Garona's, how about Exalted Kara ring plus Ring of a Thousand Marks?
Isfreak: You're right, that site is somewhat limiting. What we did was take the Kara loot list as a foundation, then edit it appropriately, but we're just getting started with the editing part. As our E Shaman pointed out, the same mail gear that I think is crap for hunters is also crap for E Shamans. But it's still better for us than Fury Warriors, which isn't saying much--some of that mail gear is just trash.
But again, agreed on all points about looking at it in a void, which is a significant issue. Hopefully my guild can take that into account when revamping it.
Ring of a Thousand Marks is fine.
All of the melee DPS rings in Kara are fine for an enhancement shaman, and the heroic badge ring isn't horrible either.
As Isfreak said, go for the ring that gives you the most AP/crit even if it sacrifices a little hit rating.
All of the melee DPS rings in Kara are fine for an enhancement shaman, and the heroic badge ring isn't horrible either.
As Isfreak said, go for the ring that gives you the most AP/crit even if it sacrifices a little hit rating.
agil is only minorly less of a useful stat to shammies as strength due to the low amount of agil it takes for us to get crit chance.
heres teh list of what you want from kara ( and lol at the fact that's it's mostly leather) I will put down the best item first then move backwards
Head: T4 head. cowl of defiance, steelspine faceguard
Neck: Worgen claw necklace, Mithril chain of heroism, saberclaw talisman( LOL PVP)
Shoulders: Bladed shoulderpads of the merciless, Beastmaw pauldrons
Cloak: Royal cloak of arathi kings, Drape of the darkreavers/Farstrider wildcloak( tossup between those)( recommend 60 badge cloak)
Chest:Scaled breastplate of carnage/Chestguard of the conniver ( also a toss-up)
bracers: Bracers of maliciousness ( pvp here as well
Gloves: T4 gloves, Grips of deftness, Gloves of quickening
belt: girdle of the prowler ( I recommend pvp belt)
Legs:Skulkers greaves, Rip-flayer leggings
Boots: just pvp rofl :S all the enhance pieces are better than kara gear
Rings: ring of a thousand marks, garona's, epic faction ring or pvp ring
trinkets: get hourglass of the unraveller from BM and bloodlust brooch from badges
and for weapons in kara you'll be getting prince axe mh and fool's bane offhand MH executioner and offhand mongoose
Edit: forgot to mention that hit is a FAR FROM PRIORITY STAT FOR SHAMMIES as alot of a shaman's dmg is yellow which hit is not applied to, all the best geared shammies have 150 hit or so at the most
Edited, Feb 1st 2008 3:54am by EvilShenanigans
heres teh list of what you want from kara ( and lol at the fact that's it's mostly leather) I will put down the best item first then move backwards
Head: T4 head. cowl of defiance, steelspine faceguard
Neck: Worgen claw necklace, Mithril chain of heroism, saberclaw talisman( LOL PVP)
Shoulders: Bladed shoulderpads of the merciless, Beastmaw pauldrons
Cloak: Royal cloak of arathi kings, Drape of the darkreavers/Farstrider wildcloak( tossup between those)( recommend 60 badge cloak)
Chest:Scaled breastplate of carnage/Chestguard of the conniver ( also a toss-up)
bracers: Bracers of maliciousness ( pvp here as well
Gloves: T4 gloves, Grips of deftness, Gloves of quickening
belt: girdle of the prowler ( I recommend pvp belt)
Legs:Skulkers greaves, Rip-flayer leggings
Boots: just pvp rofl :S all the enhance pieces are better than kara gear
Rings: ring of a thousand marks, garona's, epic faction ring or pvp ring
trinkets: get hourglass of the unraveller from BM and bloodlust brooch from badges
and for weapons in kara you'll be getting prince axe mh and fool's bane offhand MH executioner and offhand mongoose
Edit: forgot to mention that hit is a FAR FROM PRIORITY STAT FOR SHAMMIES as alot of a shaman's dmg is yellow which hit is not applied to, all the best geared shammies have 150 hit or so at the most
Edited, Feb 1st 2008 3:54am by EvilShenanigans
Hit rating IS applied to yellow damage, the only difference is that special attacks only have a 5% miss chance, not the 24% miss chance that dual-wielders have.
Fortunately, enhancement shamans get well over 5% hit just from a proper talent spec.
That gear list for what to look for from Kara is pretty spot on as well.
Edited, Feb 1st 2008 8:20am by Bigdaddyjug
Fortunately, enhancement shamans get well over 5% hit just from a proper talent spec.
That gear list for what to look for from Kara is pretty spot on as well.
Edited, Feb 1st 2008 8:20am by Bigdaddyjug
lsfreak wrote:
Yup, each point of agility can be regarded as a little less than one crit rating in most situations, and equal to one point of crit rating if you regularly get Kings (same for dps warrior and ret pallies). It does more for rogues and hunters since it gives crit (albiet at almost half the rate) and AP.
Side note; Warriors need 33 AGI for 1% crit, which means that AGI is worth about as much as 2/3rds of a Crit Rating. It's considerably worse.
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