heroic ramps run
prot tank (me)
2h dps warrior
pvp spec rogue
lock
holy priest
i like to have three forms of cc for heroic ramps, but have done it with less. multitanking the run was actually not bad since i've made some recent upgrades to avoidance, mitigation and stamina, and the healer was quite good (though at first he didn't know that the destroyer mobs did an MS attack). HOWEVER...
... the dps warrior made it difficult to tank. i would ranged pull a mob group, then before i got so much as a shield slam/tclap/devastate/white hit/or even a demo shout in, he would charge/white swing >< so, guess whose portrait is under the mob's health bar? yep. the dps warrior's. i would blow taunt and get the mob back on me, but at this point i'm playing catch-up and am still trying to get all the mobs on me. eventually, some mob does break loose within the 6 second cd and guess who it runs to? yep. the healer. do i have taunt back up yet? nope. is mocking blow available? sometimes. at some point, i let the holy priest know to stop healing the dps warrior and that i wouldn't taunt mobs off him on initial pulls (i also let the dps warrior know to give me a few seconds to establish aggro), but it didn't work. we cleared up to the circular room past the big 5man pull and called it.
>< stupid dps warriors.
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quick rant re: dps warriorsFollow
Shame dude
I really feel your pain. And for some reason it always is the 2handed MS warriors. Never had a problem with a Fury warrior before but almost everytime I group with a MS warrior I want to cry by the ed of the run.
I really feel your pain. And for some reason it always is the 2handed MS warriors. Never had a problem with a Fury warrior before but almost everytime I group with a MS warrior I want to cry by the ed of the run.
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guess whose portrait is under the mob's health bar?
I'm just curious about what add-on does this? Or is it built into a UI? Would be useful for my tank.
Sorry bout the derail. To get back on topic...
DPS warriors are the devil!!!!
:-)
under interface somewhere, you can click on "show target of target - always" or something like that.
when i dps, i always wait for the tank to build up 2-3k threat, unless i know the tank well and he is well-geared with adequate +hit and expertise. guys like these that charge in are just.... grrraaaaaarrr.
when i dps, i always wait for the tank to build up 2-3k threat, unless i know the tank well and he is well-geared with adequate +hit and expertise. guys like these that charge in are just.... grrraaaaaarrr.
Sounds like you bumped into the "I need to top the damage meters even if I get my group killed type", its not just wars, theres a bunch of retarded dps out there.
might have a point there. he was neck and neck with the rogue on the damage chart. by comparison, the lock was below me on the damage meters by a bit, but he was johnny on the spot with seduce and fears and was geared in all blues.
lower dps + slightly lower run + well-controlled mobs >>>> reckless dps that forces the tank to use taunt constantly
lower dps + slightly lower run + well-controlled mobs >>>> reckless dps that forces the tank to use taunt constantly
It's not just DPS Warriors. I often have to tell the DPS to wait until I have the mob where I want to tank it and let me get a few threat moves on it before they really start in on it. On the more critical pulls where I really need to have the mob pulled way back or up against a wall, I will make a point of telling them just what and why I want the mob in a certain place and to not freeze or stun it before it gets to me.
The other situation where I sometimes have to tell the DPS to pay attention is when I'm fighting a mob that stuns me a lot, a mob that needs a lot of kiting or a mob that I have to move myself out of melee range periodically. The DPS needs to realize that when I'm stunned, in motion or outside melee range, I am not producing much (if any) threat so they need to watch the threat meter and scale down DPS if necessary.
Edited, Jan 31st 2008 11:10am by morghast
The other situation where I sometimes have to tell the DPS to pay attention is when I'm fighting a mob that stuns me a lot, a mob that needs a lot of kiting or a mob that I have to move myself out of melee range periodically. The DPS needs to realize that when I'm stunned, in motion or outside melee range, I am not producing much (if any) threat so they need to watch the threat meter and scale down DPS if necessary.
Edited, Jan 31st 2008 11:10am by morghast
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
i would ranged pull a mob group, then before i got so much as a shield slam/tclap/devastate/white hit/or even a demo shout in, he would charge/white swing ><
Taunt puts you just above the person with the highest threat, so next time you could try to not do anything until the [insert noob DPS here] has done all his initial attacks. After that just Taunt and Shield Slam, you should have an easier time to hold aggro.
Quote:
under interface somewhere, you can click on "show target of target - always" or something like that.
Thanks fro...stupid of me not to have already known that. Oh well...learn something new everyday. :-)
Agreed: It's not just warriors that can ***** up their role as dps. Rogues,locks and mages can be just as bad ("what do you mean that Hellfire is a bad opener?") Everyone is a noob at some point, but you have to learn from your mistakes and I personally can't stand dealing with people who refuse to fulfill their group role even after they've been told what to do by those who know. Life's too short to deal with jackasses who won't listen to common sense.
When I started doing pugs (with a lock, then later with a rogue) I relied on the tank and more experienced players to dictate the tactics. I would usually simply say "you mark it, I'll nuke it when you say 'go'" and that has worked for me pretty well.
Now that I do have a mid-level tankadin it seems that a lot of people would rather just run in, do their most spectacular spell/ability and then expect the tank to save their asses as their TPS shoots through the roof. Some people don't understand threat or the fact that tanks need just a few seconds to establish a base threat before the dps starts. But if they don't listen to the explination and continue to get themselves (or the whole group) killed, boot 'em and find a replacement.
Anyone ever feel that a pug was filled with 4 Leroy Jenkins' and you?
When I started doing pugs (with a lock, then later with a rogue) I relied on the tank and more experienced players to dictate the tactics. I would usually simply say "you mark it, I'll nuke it when you say 'go'" and that has worked for me pretty well.
Now that I do have a mid-level tankadin it seems that a lot of people would rather just run in, do their most spectacular spell/ability and then expect the tank to save their asses as their TPS shoots through the roof. Some people don't understand threat or the fact that tanks need just a few seconds to establish a base threat before the dps starts. But if they don't listen to the explination and continue to get themselves (or the whole group) killed, boot 'em and find a replacement.
Anyone ever feel that a pug was filled with 4 Leroy Jenkins' and you?
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Anyone ever feel that a pug was filled with 4 Leroy Jenkins' and you?
Oh God yes!
Utarius wrote:
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
i would ranged pull a mob group, then before i got so much as a shield slam/tclap/devastate/white hit/or even a demo shout in, he would charge/white swing ><
Taunt puts you just above the person with the highest threat, so next time you could try to not do anything until the [insert noob DPS here] has done all his initial attacks. After that just Taunt and Shield Slam, you should have an easier time to hold aggro.
the problem is not that i can't establish a threat lead after using taunt... the problem is that i have to throw a shield slam, and then at this point i should have thrown a tclap and some cleaves, but i'm busy trying to get ahead on threat on one mob instead of the two or three i'm tanking, and then i don't have enough threat on the third mob to keep it on me, so it runs after the healer but taunt is still on cd.
i think i'll spec imp taunt like gyf suggested just to run heroics with bad pugs a bit more easily.
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
Utarius wrote:
fromanthebarbarian wrote:
i would ranged pull a mob group, then before i got so much as a shield slam/tclap/devastate/white hit/or even a demo shout in, he would charge/white swing ><
Taunt puts you just above the person with the highest threat, so next time you could try to not do anything until the [insert noob DPS here] has done all his initial attacks. After that just Taunt and Shield Slam, you should have an easier time to hold aggro.
the problem is not that i can't establish a threat lead after using taunt... the problem is that i have to throw a shield slam, and then at this point i should have thrown a tclap and some cleaves, but i'm busy trying to get ahead on threat on one mob instead of the two or three i'm tanking, and then i don't have enough threat on the third mob to keep it on me, so it runs after the healer but taunt is still on cd.
If a suicide warrior is charging in and stealing threat off the bat, I let the mobs beat him into the ground. My main responsibility is to the healer, and that's who I'm going to save my taunt for, because I know they're going to need it.
In other words, let him die.
/agree with Ialaman
Last night, I was running slabs to get geared for kara/heroics. Group makeup was Me(prot tank) warrior(arms) rogue, pro lock w/veng & merc (played with him before) Pro priest (also played with him before)
You guys know the mobs that are before hellmaw, that shoot frostbolts and such?
My strat for taking those guys is pull, run behind pillar. I let the dps know, i marked the targets, pulled. One is sapped, rogue kidney shots one, and the warrior charges one, almost as soon as I get behind the pillar. every single pull. I yell at them, they repeat. So then I told the healer to just not heal them. So he did. They die, we /lol, rape remaining mobs. Didnt have a problem with it after that.
Last night, I was running slabs to get geared for kara/heroics. Group makeup was Me(prot tank) warrior(arms) rogue, pro lock w/veng & merc (played with him before) Pro priest (also played with him before)
You guys know the mobs that are before hellmaw, that shoot frostbolts and such?
My strat for taking those guys is pull, run behind pillar. I let the dps know, i marked the targets, pulled. One is sapped, rogue kidney shots one, and the warrior charges one, almost as soon as I get behind the pillar. every single pull. I yell at them, they repeat. So then I told the healer to just not heal them. So he did. They die, we /lol, rape remaining mobs. Didnt have a problem with it after that.
Scholar
40 posts
Always let the DPS die when they pull aggro, this coming from a Frost Mage.
If they stop attacking and run over to you, then they realize they made a mistake, and you should save them, but if they keep attacking, then they want the mob to attack them.
For example, with my mage, I'll often open up for max DPs at about 50% health, especially on the MS-type mobs, since I know at that level I can kite them to death without getting hit. 1-shot dead clothies FTW!
If it's a hunter he's probably doing the same thing (or he's an idiot and deserves the repair bills). Any other class is probably just incompetent. But it's the DPS responsibility to DPS and live without healing. With the exception of unavoidable AoE, heals should be reserved only for the Tanks, anyone else did it to themselves.
As I've seen quoted numerous places, if you die, it's the healers fault, if the healer dies, it's your fault, if any one else dies, it's their own darn fault.
If they stop attacking and run over to you, then they realize they made a mistake, and you should save them, but if they keep attacking, then they want the mob to attack them.
For example, with my mage, I'll often open up for max DPs at about 50% health, especially on the MS-type mobs, since I know at that level I can kite them to death without getting hit. 1-shot dead clothies FTW!
If it's a hunter he's probably doing the same thing (or he's an idiot and deserves the repair bills). Any other class is probably just incompetent. But it's the DPS responsibility to DPS and live without healing. With the exception of unavoidable AoE, heals should be reserved only for the Tanks, anyone else did it to themselves.
As I've seen quoted numerous places, if you die, it's the healers fault, if the healer dies, it's your fault, if any one else dies, it's their own darn fault.
I've had this problem with dps warriors from time to time, but mages the most, by far. I love bringing mages to my group because of free food / water and awesome CC, but I also hate bringing mages to my group because they are usually dps whores that don't play well with the group at all.
I know what you are taking about very well.... lol
On the other hand I love guild runs when I fight for aggro with our guild MT.
I often win :P. Still I don't die that easily anymore. I have now more HP and armor than I had as tank first going into those instances :P.
Oh while I do it I prefer to use PvP set :P.
As for MS warriors. Someretimes its not their fault. It is just how MS warrior works.
Tank has 2 k threat lead, MS warrior starts attacking -
white hit crit - 1700
sword sepcc crit - 1700
MS crit - 2000
sword specc crit - 1700
all below 2 sec. Guess who is tanking now.... I know it is not likely to happen but it does.
Still warrior/rogue stilling aggro is much less anoying that ranged stilling aggro. At least mob doesn't run away...
On the other hand I love guild runs when I fight for aggro with our guild MT.
I often win :P. Still I don't die that easily anymore. I have now more HP and armor than I had as tank first going into those instances :P.
Oh while I do it I prefer to use PvP set :P.
As for MS warriors. Someretimes its not their fault. It is just how MS warrior works.
Tank has 2 k threat lead, MS warrior starts attacking -
white hit crit - 1700
sword sepcc crit - 1700
MS crit - 2000
sword specc crit - 1700
all below 2 sec. Guess who is tanking now.... I know it is not likely to happen but it does.
Still warrior/rogue stilling aggro is much less anoying that ranged stilling aggro. At least mob doesn't run away...
I'm not lvl 70 yet and these problems are all I see in PUGs. Basicly any mobs that are still on me after the first 3-4 seconds I try to tank. The others if they aren't on the healer I let em beat on whoever was lighting them up. Nobody will listen.
30 posts
As an arms warrior, if I pull aggro, I do not expect to be healed, and I do not expect to get the thing taunted. I have 1 job imo and that is to not pull agro. I also do damage, but if I pull agro I die which is, surprisingly, very hard on my dps. Dps that pull off the tank like that deserve a huge repair cost (I just wish there was a way to let them die and not suffer as a group) This is also why I do not pug, ever. Too many bad players (sorry for sounding like an elitist jerk, but the decision to never pug again has probably saved my life by lowering my blood pressure.)
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i think i'll spec imp taunt like gyf suggested just to run heroics with bad pugs a bit more easily.
This is what I've done and it has made a world of difference in certain situations (think Shattered Halls with only a lock for CC). I've had people tell me that imp taunt is a waste of talent points, but those two seconds can mean the difference between a wipe and a successful run.
Can't remember which part of the forums I read it on but there is a quote from one of them that sums up this situation perfectly.
If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault.
If the tank dies, it's the healers fault.
If the dps die, it's their own fault.
If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault.
If the tank dies, it's the healers fault.
If the dps die, it's their own fault.
Nothing beats a mage opening a fight with PoM + Pyroblast.
I get irked when dps get the aggro and they keep on spamming their skills. It's common sense that if you notice the tank having trouble, you back off a little, turn around and stop hitting the mob for 2-3 secs. I let dps die when that happens. They know that they can rip aggro off me in a sec and go on to prove it, at the expense of the entire group. I'm forgiving when it comes to regualr instances, but in heroics...I always run with friends xD
I get irked when dps get the aggro and they keep on spamming their skills. It's common sense that if you notice the tank having trouble, you back off a little, turn around and stop hitting the mob for 2-3 secs. I let dps die when that happens. They know that they can rip aggro off me in a sec and go on to prove it, at the expense of the entire group. I'm forgiving when it comes to regualr instances, but in heroics...I always run with friends xD
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