Bare minimum for heroicsFollow

Heroics are much harder than the previous versions of the instance. One of the big changes is that a lot of the enemies are immune to the various forms of Crowd control that are available. The targets also have more health and do more damage. This makes it critical for everyone in the group to be pulling their weight so to speak. An accidental set of adds is not so easy to overcome due to shear cusidness and will most times prove quite fatal. CC is even more so a big part of the dungeon as you will want as many enemies occupied as possible while killing the main target.

Gear wise it is best if you geared for these as if you were going into a raid. There are some heroics that I have heard as being harder than doing Kara.

Also, work on your resist sets. There are several bosses that will now require you to have 250 min resistance to one school of magic. For heroic Ramparts you would need a Fire set for the last boss and possibly a Shadow set for the second one.

Thank you for your kind reply. I suppose it's reasonable to do lvl 70 instances before running any Heroic, so I'll do it, no doubt.
Good to know that they are generally the same number, and I guess I spected them to be way harder, for everything I read say exactly that.
One question, though. If the mobs are immune to CC, how one group can efectively CC then?


Sorry if I misunderstand you, but are you saying to me that the stats to go to Kara and Gruul are the same for Heroics? I tend to doubt that, since the first impression I have is that I have to have some Heroic drops and badges rewards before adventuring into Kara/Gruul, so I would have to run Heroics before it. It just don't make sense to me. Again, sorry If I misunderstand.

I suppose that something like 26%~30% crit and 1500~2000 AP is a good starter for kitty in an Heroic. I imagine I have to be hit capped too. And crit immune for mobs of lvl 73 as a tank, right? Or the defense cap for Heroics is lower?

I'm only entry level heroic here, and not into Kara yet, but to me heroics are a TOTALLY different ballgame. Everybody has to be well-geared, and everybody has to both know the fights and do their job to near perfection. Anything less leads to wipes.

Incorrect on a few counts.
1) To tank heroics ya gotta be crit immune. Get your heavy clefthoof set in the AH and you're most of the way there. With a combination of other gear and enchants, and 415 def is easy peasy.
2) I recommend that your first entree into heroics be as DPS...tanking them is brutal.

Skibum's right, man, check that Kara readiness thread for an idea of Heroic readiness. Those with more experience than I have say that some heroics are harder than early Kara stuff.

Your guess of 26-30% crit and 1500-2000 AP in cat form is weak sauce for heroics. For perspective, I don't have any heroic upgrades yet and am sitting at 33.5% crit and 2650 AP. You better at least get to 31 and 2200 or so. Tanking is even more gear dependent. In bear form before some recent upgrades I had 12k health and 20.5k armor...I tanked Heroic SV (my first heroic) as a last resort because they couldn't find anybody else...we couldn't get past one boss until our lock switched to his epic'd out prot warrior and I switched to DPS. Maybe I suck and they were just being nice, but the group was insistent that I was playing well but undergeared.

With all due respect: "save it." You're not close enough to this content to say you don't see what the problem is. And "heroic" does not equate to "X levels harder than base level of instance" such that Heroic Ramps is 10 levels easier than Heroic Mech. They're all tuned to be difficult for 70's and all require very good gear and technique.

Uuuhhhh, no.

Yeah, after I writed it down I realized that this was way too low, since I'm 66 and almost with that numbers. But I decided to leave it be, since whatever number I put there would be a guess anyway.


No problem, it was more of a guess than anything again. You got to be wrong before be right, right?
Maybe I wrote in a way that sounded bad, but wasn't really my intention. But thanks for the input, nevertheless. It's important stuff to know.


I meant the normal one, not the Heroic, of course. At least, I have heard some people claming that and I thought I could do it too, since I'm not a bad player for my class (I think that I'm actually quite good, but that's another point). Of course they could be lying, thus my assumption would be total failure, but I just based my claim on what I heard and read before.


I didn't played before BC was released, but I did played those instances before venturing at BC, just to tale a look at them. The PUG I went with had lots and lots of trouble. If I'm not mistaken, we didn't finished it, so I can quite understand this. Not entirely, but quite.


I use emmeral list a lot. I even made a search and posted a list of "equip-to-have-before-next-expansion", since I don't think I will have time to raid before the expack comes, due to personal commitments. This is the link to my list: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/class.html?wclass=6;mid=1201529069245959549;num=0;page=1


Will try to do that, but I don't think they will want to or even if it would be compared to a "real" situation. 90% of my guild is sitting on t5, but maybe this will show how low I would be. Gotta learn somewhere, somehow.


Thanks for this input.


Anyway, thanks everyone for the responses. Was more-or-less what I thought, but a litle harder, heh. I thought that, for example, the defense needed to be crit immune would be lower, since the mobs aren't 73 like raid bosses, but from what you say, the defense needed is quite the same.
Guess this is the "you had to be there" kind of thing. Well, I will soon and I will post my thoughts then.

Rate up for everyone who posted here. I asked and you answered in a right manner. Thanks a lot.

Edited, Jan 30th 2008 5:00pm by Brisin

As others have said heroics are absolutely brutal and the difficulty is on a scale that you have never encountered before. Even the heroics instances themselves can vary greatly from one another. Heroic instances require everyone to be on the top of their game and have the appropriate gear and knowledge of their class to succeed.

If you plan on tanking, which as a feral druid you likely will, plan on having about 22k armor, 13k health, 27% dodge, and be crit immune. Some instances may require more than this, others may require less, but I think this is a good ballpark estimate of where you should be to tank most heroics.

If you plan on dpsing, I would shoot for at least 2.5k attack power and 30% crit. Hit rating doesn't need to be maxed but you should have some +hit. Proper dps is just as important in heroics as healers and tanks. Some bosses simply cannot be done if you are a low on dps (the second boss in Botanica comes to mind.)

If you think you're ready for heroics the best thing you can do is go out and try one. This is the best way to check and see if your gear and tanking skills are up to the new content you are facing. In my guild we send any prospective tanks to try tanking the Ravengaurds in Heroic Sethekk Halls. The combined dps of those two mobs can easily reach over 1000 and I've seen it reach as high as 1800. I figure that if you can tank those mobs you are ready for most anything heroics will throw at you... at least your gear is anyways.

I have soloed all of ramparts except the last boss. It is not particularly difficult for a well equipped bear. Most of the trash pulls are doable but I did stealth past many as there is just no point.

I have seen vids of the last boss being done and read the strat for doing it, but I died twice and decided it just wasn't worth the repair bills.

If you got large prismatics from DE'ing the loot instead of small prismatics, i'd probably solo it more often as the gold reward would be much better.


I still maintain that tanking heroics is much harder than tanking Karazhan. In Karazhan, most of the pulls are under control and you just stand there building up as much threat as possible. In Heroics, you have to run around picking up loose mobs, tank multilple mobs, save the healer, watch for runners etc.etc.


To gear yourself for Heroics use this guide on Emmerald's forums for gearing for Karazhan tanking. It gives you several suitable options for each slot which you can use to prepare for heroics which you can use to prepare for Kara :)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Spirestone&n=Rarebeast

The full Feralheart set, of course.

Hi, I have started running heroics on my druid in the last couple of weeks.
I have also started offtanking in Kara. I believe the stats needed are approximately the same. I have 25k armor, 15k health and 30%dodge (maybe more dodge).

In my kitty gear I have 3k AP and 40% crit (nerf imo).

As others have noted heroics are very difficult. If you imagine you are level 61 and running ramp, now imagine that the guys are pounding on you twice as hard and cc's are breaking more frequently or there are less of them. That is a heroic.

One thing I didnt see mentioned above regarding stats is tanking and AP. Generally you can be in greens and blues and get the stats I've listed above - however you would be sacrificing a tonne of AP. As DPS needs to be high in heroics the dps'ers will generally be well geared hence create a lot of threat.

If your AP is too low in bear they will strip agro way too easily (despite how brilliant of a tank you may be). I know because this initially happened to me before I managed to get the Earthwarden and some PvP gear to tank with.

my personal rule for heroics is that they USED to be a revered requirement. so in other words, blizzard kinda thought that maybe you should run the other instances enough so youve got about revered, thus picking up the items necessary to survive in a heroic.

now, depending on item drops you may be heroic ready by honored or even friendly, especially if you substitute some high quality crafted stuff (heavy clefthoof for tanking, primal mooncloth for healing etc.). but even then heroics will throw you a few curveballs. for instance, capacitus in mech is WAY more fun (and potentially challenging for the unlearned) on heroic than he is on normal. i also learned that, on my warrior, i cant tank capacitus "traditionally" unless im prot specced. if im arms then the only way i can hold aggro is by slam spam in defensive stance. thankfully he doesnt hit so hard that my healers cant keep up with the damage, but it was a surprise trying to tank him the usual way at first.

Yeah in my last Kara run got some really nice kitty drops, which made about 3% crit difference and about 200AP diff.

As other poster said, I worked hard on the vindicator's set and gladiator maul to get my kitty and tank gear up. Also got two pieces of glad armor (head and shoulders) for tanking.

Bought Badge of Tenacity for 1000g (as per other post deep pockets) and managed to get Darkmoon madness for around 300g.

I made sure I did rep grinds on going to level 70 so could get the glyphs and shoulder enchants straight away. Add ontop of that the leg enchants.

Edit: Oh yeah. Also bought Natural Grace recipe and got a guildy to make Shadowprowlers for me.

Edited, Jan 31st 2008 3:50pm by Minxete

I just want to start off by saying Reg Ramps is definitely solo-able, my good buddy Dinner has done it a few times, though he is a decently geared and well played druid.

I really wanted to reply to re-itterate what everyone is saying. Heroics are no laughing matter...I can't give examples from a druid's viewpoint, but as a holy pally I can say that heroic ramps alone gave me a big slap in the face about how much I underestimated it. I healed a group in ramps with 940 +healing and it was the most intense healing i've ever done bar none. Kara is way less stressful since you go in with healers and back up healers and a tank and most likely a back up tank. Don't get me wrong, there are some bosses in Kara that are no laughing matter, but I think heroics are where people really get to shine and show the realm how well they know how to play their toons...