Just respecced from feral to resto and have a few questions regarding healing for the slightly more experienced druids out there. Any help would be great;y appreciated.
First: when pre-hotting the tank before a pull, which part of my heals gains aggro on the mobs aggro-list? I was under the impression that any healing done after entering combat will create aggro, hence putting 3 lifeblooms and a rejuv on a full health tank is technically zero healing done until he gets hit, am I right? The reason I ask is quite often (on a trash pull) the non tanked mobs seem to run to the moment the tank has pulled. Should I wait with my hots until we have entered combat? I guess this is more of a game mechanic issue but it's still caused a few hairy moments on the occasional heroic.
Secondly I seem to go oom disturbingly fast (this is especially relevant to 10 man raids). At the moment if I can I stay in tree form as long as possible, casting the usual insta-hots and regrowths but around 2/3 of the way through the fights, I am having to rely on my mana-potion cooldown to be down. And yes this is also after having used innervate. I basically avoid using Healing Touch at all costs bar emergencies - and even then it's nature's swiftness -> healing touch.
At the moment in heal gear (unbuffed) I'm looking at 1324+heal, 375int and 411spi which admittedly isn't fantastic.
Any help/advice would be great
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A few mainly resto questionsFollow
Lifebloom counts as the person bloomed healing themselves, it uses the same mechanic as Prayer of Mending and Earthshield.
Which means it will also be your heal that doesn't regen pally tank mana, etc.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd hate to be causing wipes, my main is a priest, so I go with what druids have told me. :D
Which means it will also be your heal that doesn't regen pally tank mana, etc.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd hate to be causing wipes, my main is a priest, so I go with what druids have told me. :D
The FINAL heal of lifebloom counts as the person's threat whom you casted it on, but not the ticks prior to.
Maybe the tank is casting something like Commanding shout? Which would make the Hots heal up the difference.
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 9:17pm by Fauxreal
Maybe the tank is casting something like Commanding shout? Which would make the Hots heal up the difference.
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 9:17pm by Fauxreal
Hrm that's weird, it wouldn't let me edit my post
well I wanted to add
Maybe (If the tank is a warrior) He is casting Commanding shout, causing your Hots to then tick prematurely?
I seem to go OOM Alot too, whith innervate. I Guess that if your amount of healing in the right places backs it up, and not too much overhealing going on with regrowth it's okay.
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 9:27pm by Fauxreal
well I wanted to add
Maybe (If the tank is a warrior) He is casting Commanding shout, causing your Hots to then tick prematurely?
I seem to go OOM Alot too, whith innervate. I Guess that if your amount of healing in the right places backs it up, and not too much overhealing going on with regrowth it's okay.
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 9:27pm by Fauxreal
Regrowth will send you OOM fast. Keep the 3 stack of Lifebloom up, use rejuv if needed and save regrowth for when it is really needed. If you do this, your mana will last a lot longer.
Heads up zargoza, update your sig. It says feral. I'd also do armory links rather than plain text, so we can look you up and offer advice.
Over-healing causes no threat, but even HoT's cast before the fight will cause threat if the tank either takes damage or had damage on him already. If the tank has built up say 37 threat from thorns on each of the adds (but not any from TC, etc) you only need to do 97 healing (factor in 50% threat on heals and 130% threat needed to pull off the tank when out of melee range) to pull. My untalented and ungeared rejuv/regrowth ticks at 62 are over 200, so you're obviously going to pull if you're talented and geared for healing.
Waiting until the tank has built sufficient threat (which honestly shouldn't take too long) to start the healing process and having more crowd control are two simple ways to solve this problem.
Secondly I seem to go oom disturbingly fast (this is especially relevant to 10 man raids). At the moment if I can I stay in tree form as long as possible, casting the usual insta-hots and regrowths but around 2/3 of the way through the fights, I am having to rely on my mana-potion cooldown to be down. And yes this is also after having used innervate. I basically avoid using Healing Touch at all costs bar emergencies - and even then it's nature's swiftness -> healing touch.
At the moment in heal gear (unbuffed) I'm looking at 1324+heal, 375int and 411spi which admittedly isn't fantastic.
There's a few things I must say about this:
1. You left out your MP/5. That really matters, especially when you talk about going OOM.
2. I dont know about everybody here, but I much prefer mana pool to +int. All int does is buff spell crit, mana pool, and maybe healing (if you're going deeper into the balance tree). Spirit is important though as it helps tree form.
I'm not too familiar with druid stats, but there could be a number of reasons you're going OOM (note that these are not mutually exclusive, more than one may be true):
1. If the fights go with less CC than you should (like I said would help in problem 1), you may need to be putting out more healing than is necessary. 2 mobs will do roughly 3 times the damage as 1 mob (since your tank is getting hit for double damage for the first mob, and then single damage for the second, adding up to 3 total), and that scales in a very nonlinear fashion. The more CC you have, the easier it is on your mana pool.
2. If any of the other healers are undergeared for the fight, you may be burning more mana to pick up their slack.
3. You are undergeared, and need better gear.
4. Your spell rotation is wrong (note the keeping regrowth out unless you need to). Using less mana efficient heals, or overhealing too much, wastes mana. Your goal is to get the most damage healed out of each mana point while still keeping everyone alive. Don't forget about swiftmend!
5. The DPS is slacking, or else not prepared for the encounter. Case in point, doing VC (I know it's low, but as most everyone's done it and I've run it hundreds of times, the examples I get from there are plentiful) I ended up with a group of 18 priest, 19 rogue (me), and 24 druid. Yes, 3 people. We did great, all of us knew how to play and what we were doing, but on the final fight we would die because the priest went OOM. When we'd cleared it out before in a 4-man group with no real tank. Why did the priest go OOM? The fight went on longer than her healing could keep up. Longer fight = more damage taken by the tank = more healing needed to be done = more mana spent.
If this were a paladin/priest/shaman forum, or a HT based heal spec, I'd suggest downranking as well, but I dont believe downranking helps HoTs a whole lot.
Hope I helped, and hope it's not a wall of text.
Quote:
First: when pre-hotting the tank before a pull, which part of my heals gains aggro on the mobs aggro-list? I was under the impression that any healing done after entering combat will create aggro, hence putting 3 lifeblooms and a rejuv on a full health tank is technically zero healing done until he gets hit, am I right? The reason I ask is quite often (on a trash pull) the non tanked mobs seem to run to the moment the tank has pulled. Should I wait with my hots until we have entered combat? I guess this is more of a game mechanic issue but it's still caused a few hairy moments on the occasional heroic.
Over-healing causes no threat, but even HoT's cast before the fight will cause threat if the tank either takes damage or had damage on him already. If the tank has built up say 37 threat from thorns on each of the adds (but not any from TC, etc) you only need to do 97 healing (factor in 50% threat on heals and 130% threat needed to pull off the tank when out of melee range) to pull. My untalented and ungeared rejuv/regrowth ticks at 62 are over 200, so you're obviously going to pull if you're talented and geared for healing.
Waiting until the tank has built sufficient threat (which honestly shouldn't take too long) to start the healing process and having more crowd control are two simple ways to solve this problem.
Quote:
Secondly I seem to go oom disturbingly fast (this is especially relevant to 10 man raids). At the moment if I can I stay in tree form as long as possible, casting the usual insta-hots and regrowths but around 2/3 of the way through the fights, I am having to rely on my mana-potion cooldown to be down. And yes this is also after having used innervate. I basically avoid using Healing Touch at all costs bar emergencies - and even then it's nature's swiftness -> healing touch.
At the moment in heal gear (unbuffed) I'm looking at 1324+heal, 375int and 411spi which admittedly isn't fantastic.
There's a few things I must say about this:
1. You left out your MP/5. That really matters, especially when you talk about going OOM.
2. I dont know about everybody here, but I much prefer mana pool to +int. All int does is buff spell crit, mana pool, and maybe healing (if you're going deeper into the balance tree). Spirit is important though as it helps tree form.
I'm not too familiar with druid stats, but there could be a number of reasons you're going OOM (note that these are not mutually exclusive, more than one may be true):
1. If the fights go with less CC than you should (like I said would help in problem 1), you may need to be putting out more healing than is necessary. 2 mobs will do roughly 3 times the damage as 1 mob (since your tank is getting hit for double damage for the first mob, and then single damage for the second, adding up to 3 total), and that scales in a very nonlinear fashion. The more CC you have, the easier it is on your mana pool.
2. If any of the other healers are undergeared for the fight, you may be burning more mana to pick up their slack.
3. You are undergeared, and need better gear.
4. Your spell rotation is wrong (note the keeping regrowth out unless you need to). Using less mana efficient heals, or overhealing too much, wastes mana. Your goal is to get the most damage healed out of each mana point while still keeping everyone alive. Don't forget about swiftmend!
5. The DPS is slacking, or else not prepared for the encounter. Case in point, doing VC (I know it's low, but as most everyone's done it and I've run it hundreds of times, the examples I get from there are plentiful) I ended up with a group of 18 priest, 19 rogue (me), and 24 druid. Yes, 3 people. We did great, all of us knew how to play and what we were doing, but on the final fight we would die because the priest went OOM. When we'd cleared it out before in a 4-man group with no real tank. Why did the priest go OOM? The fight went on longer than her healing could keep up. Longer fight = more damage taken by the tank = more healing needed to be done = more mana spent.
If this were a paladin/priest/shaman forum, or a HT based heal spec, I'd suggest downranking as well, but I dont believe downranking helps HoTs a whole lot.
Hope I helped, and hope it's not a wall of text.
At the beginning of fights, I try to keep my healing to a minimum, maybe one lifebloom before the pull and sometimes it blooms as he gets hit (giving him the healing aggro instead of me). If the tank takes a lot of damage early on, it's a difficult situation that usually involves a healer pulling aggro. Not much can be done about that.
As for running out of mana, I have a few tips.
1) Use a mana potion when you're around 75 to 80% mana... basically as soon as you can take a potion and get the full benefit of it. Use one on every cooldown after this.
2) Check the auction house for Dark Runes throughout the week. These restore mana and are on a seperate cooldown than the potions. I usually use these one minute after my first mana potion so that I have something to use every minute instead of two minutes.
3) Innervate when both potions and runes are on cooldown and will be for awhile... also when you can get the full benefit from it.
4) Your typical healing should be 3 lifeblooms and a rejuv. Regrowth should be used for specific parts of a fight. (like the 2nd phase of Prince or Bear form phase in ZA) If done in tree form, this spell is actually more mana efficient than spamming healing touch, as long as the target gets the full benefit from the direct healing as well as the HoT. Even so, the tank is usually fine with 3 lifeblooms and a rejuv and you can spare yourself some mana by saving regrowth until he or she needs it.
5) Take the opportunity during any lull in the fight to stop casting for at least 5 seconds. If you cast a lifebloom on the tank and let it burst it can still help the other healers while you try to regenerate some mana.
And that's pretty much what I do when raid healing. If fights go on for a ridiculously long time I'll run dry, but most of the time I'm fine. There are a few things I've considered that may be more efficient and I've just been too lazy to try out.
The innervate for instance. It occurs to me that if I used innervate first, I'd probably be able to do it again towards the end of the fight and get two innervates per battle instead of just one. In that case, I'd use nothing until I can get the full benefit of an innervate, use that, and then start the potion and dark rune routine back at 75 to 80% mana.
Anway, good luck with the raids.
=)
Edited, Jan 30th 2008 1:15pm by Lukoi
As for running out of mana, I have a few tips.
1) Use a mana potion when you're around 75 to 80% mana... basically as soon as you can take a potion and get the full benefit of it. Use one on every cooldown after this.
2) Check the auction house for Dark Runes throughout the week. These restore mana and are on a seperate cooldown than the potions. I usually use these one minute after my first mana potion so that I have something to use every minute instead of two minutes.
3) Innervate when both potions and runes are on cooldown and will be for awhile... also when you can get the full benefit from it.
4) Your typical healing should be 3 lifeblooms and a rejuv. Regrowth should be used for specific parts of a fight. (like the 2nd phase of Prince or Bear form phase in ZA) If done in tree form, this spell is actually more mana efficient than spamming healing touch, as long as the target gets the full benefit from the direct healing as well as the HoT. Even so, the tank is usually fine with 3 lifeblooms and a rejuv and you can spare yourself some mana by saving regrowth until he or she needs it.
5) Take the opportunity during any lull in the fight to stop casting for at least 5 seconds. If you cast a lifebloom on the tank and let it burst it can still help the other healers while you try to regenerate some mana.
And that's pretty much what I do when raid healing. If fights go on for a ridiculously long time I'll run dry, but most of the time I'm fine. There are a few things I've considered that may be more efficient and I've just been too lazy to try out.
The innervate for instance. It occurs to me that if I used innervate first, I'd probably be able to do it again towards the end of the fight and get two innervates per battle instead of just one. In that case, I'd use nothing until I can get the full benefit of an innervate, use that, and then start the potion and dark rune routine back at 75 to 80% mana.
Anway, good luck with the raids.
=)
Edited, Jan 30th 2008 1:15pm by Lukoi
The early innervate is a fantastic option as it is so much more powerful than a potion. So getting 2 in during a boss fight is fantastic (it also doesn't cost you anything unlike mana pots :)
It is a good idea to get to know the length of the fight though and the mana required. Many fights my mana is no problem at all but the priest or shaman struggles so the innervate is better spent on them. Or the fight may only go for 5 mins making two innervates not possible.
It is a good idea to get to know the length of the fight though and the mana required. Many fights my mana is no problem at all but the priest or shaman struggles so the innervate is better spent on them. Or the fight may only go for 5 mins making two innervates not possible.
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