Simple question really. As a BM hunter you have 2 cooldowns, BW and Rapid Fire. Plus I also have Core of Ar'kelos which increases AP by 200 for 20 seconds.
I've always used all 3 at once. Use the Trinket to boost AP which causes more damage per shot, then use BW to get a 10% damage boost with the added AP, then use Rapid Fire to get more shots in those quick few seconds.
I never actually tested it or did the math to see if this was the best course of action for a raid boss fight.
Should I stick with using all my CDs at once, or should I use them 1 at a time for an extended time with boosted DPS. 20 seconds for Trinket, 18 seconds for BW, and then 15 seconds for Rapid Fire(not necessarily in that particular order).
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- Blow CDs all at once, or one at a time.
Blow CDs all at once, or one at a time.Follow
Not sure what the theory crafters will say, but i usually blow mine at the start, then just before the shammies do there little bloodlust(not sure the real name)at 20%
Are you talking endgame? I'll assume you do.
I usually blow BW very early each pull I can. That way I know it'll work to its full potential. In combination with BW I often use a trinket as well (use trinkets virtually when ever they're up and you're in combat, they're on such a short CD it's barely noticeable). When the trinket's worked its magic I FD if I'm high on the threat list, if not I nuke until BW's finished. After that I usually FD whether I'm high on threat or not.
I use Rapid Fire on the pulls I can when BW isn't avalable (ie. I don't use them at the same time), also often in conjunction with a trinket. If you have a weapon faster than 2.5 (base) you should probably pop Rapid Fire whenever a shaman pops Bloodlust/Heroism, since it's very hard to keep an efficient shot rotation at that speed.
To my knowledge you won't see a noticeable difference in your DPS either way. I just find it more practical to use them on separate pulls, so I do very good damage each pull, rather than insane damage every other, and good every other.
Comes down to preference? I think so.
I usually blow BW very early each pull I can. That way I know it'll work to its full potential. In combination with BW I often use a trinket as well (use trinkets virtually when ever they're up and you're in combat, they're on such a short CD it's barely noticeable). When the trinket's worked its magic I FD if I'm high on the threat list, if not I nuke until BW's finished. After that I usually FD whether I'm high on threat or not.
I use Rapid Fire on the pulls I can when BW isn't avalable (ie. I don't use them at the same time), also often in conjunction with a trinket. If you have a weapon faster than 2.5 (base) you should probably pop Rapid Fire whenever a shaman pops Bloodlust/Heroism, since it's very hard to keep an efficient shot rotation at that speed.
To my knowledge you won't see a noticeable difference in your DPS either way. I just find it more practical to use them on separate pulls, so I do very good damage each pull, rather than insane damage every other, and good every other.
Comes down to preference? I think so.
Very good question. I always wonder that too.
Looking at it from a tanking perspective, I'd love to say use one at a time, and constantly apply the +DPS from all of them through out the fight, one of those "slow but steady, and not drawing aggro" type deals. Might even have a nice little cycle of keeping one active with the others on CD.
From a Hunter perspective, I'd use all of them at once, but then need to hope your FD was not resisted. Also, need to hope you don't pass the tank(s) on aggro while all 3 are being burned up. I just feel that needing to FD or hold up on abilities while all 3 of them are burning is kind of a waste.
Using all 3 towards the "HP red zone" on mobs is actually great. I'd suggest throwing up a MD on the Main Tank, then pop'n all 3 and just letting loose... that's in a perfect situation tho.
I'm more of a constant +dps (1 at a time) guy, but both have good/bad points.
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 10:57am by GYFFORD
Looking at it from a tanking perspective, I'd love to say use one at a time, and constantly apply the +DPS from all of them through out the fight, one of those "slow but steady, and not drawing aggro" type deals. Might even have a nice little cycle of keeping one active with the others on CD.
From a Hunter perspective, I'd use all of them at once, but then need to hope your FD was not resisted. Also, need to hope you don't pass the tank(s) on aggro while all 3 are being burned up. I just feel that needing to FD or hold up on abilities while all 3 of them are burning is kind of a waste.
Using all 3 towards the "HP red zone" on mobs is actually great. I'd suggest throwing up a MD on the Main Tank, then pop'n all 3 and just letting loose... that's in a perfect situation tho.
I'm more of a constant +dps (1 at a time) guy, but both have good/bad points.
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 10:57am by GYFFORD
I am inclined to think about whats best for the fight (tanks, healers and other DPS) so I say use them one at a time in a rotation.
This approach keeps your DPS at a relatively constant rate and allows you to do so without worrying about pulling threat from the tank, which in fights like Prince means an instant wipe.
Although if you're even considered a decent Hunter yuo should know how to use Feign Death properly, so this can sometimes be a moot point, but FD is on a 30 second cooldown and it is possible for a well geared Hunter to just destroy the damage meters and get threat in much less time than 30 seconds so it's up to you.
I'll stick to using them on a rotation since I know it works for me, but eitehr way works well enough if you're smart... the end result of usiing them one at a time or blowing them all will result in zero net difference in a long fight.... 1000 constant DPS vs 1200 when you blow them all and 800-900 when they are all on CD and you have nothing....
This approach keeps your DPS at a relatively constant rate and allows you to do so without worrying about pulling threat from the tank, which in fights like Prince means an instant wipe.
Although if you're even considered a decent Hunter yuo should know how to use Feign Death properly, so this can sometimes be a moot point, but FD is on a 30 second cooldown and it is possible for a well geared Hunter to just destroy the damage meters and get threat in much less time than 30 seconds so it's up to you.
I'll stick to using them on a rotation since I know it works for me, but eitehr way works well enough if you're smart... the end result of usiing them one at a time or blowing them all will result in zero net difference in a long fight.... 1000 constant DPS vs 1200 when you blow them all and 800-900 when they are all on CD and you have nothing....
There's only one thing that I know will affect your DPS. And that's timing your Attack Power/Damage Increase skills and trinkets to Rapid Fire and Quick Shots.
Allright, you pop Rapid Fire. You have so and so many more shots going for a while. Pop BW and Bloodlust Brooch at the same time (Increases damage and AP), and you will affect more shots with AP/Damage Increase than you would if you pop them outside of Rapid Fire/Quick Shots.
So using Rapid Fire without burning AP/Damage Increases is a waste, since both BW and Trinkets would be far more effective during these haste increases. Of course, make sure you use Misdirection at the same time, or that you are low enough on threat to be able to nuke through the duration. Then you can Feign Death once more.
So, burn every CD you have, if you can. During most bossfights, you will be able to pop them several times more throughout the fight, and there's no sense in wasting Rapid Fire's without BW/Trinket. Not to mention, getting the CD started so you can pop it again all the sooner.
Allright, you pop Rapid Fire. You have so and so many more shots going for a while. Pop BW and Bloodlust Brooch at the same time (Increases damage and AP), and you will affect more shots with AP/Damage Increase than you would if you pop them outside of Rapid Fire/Quick Shots.
So using Rapid Fire without burning AP/Damage Increases is a waste, since both BW and Trinkets would be far more effective during these haste increases. Of course, make sure you use Misdirection at the same time, or that you are low enough on threat to be able to nuke through the duration. Then you can Feign Death once more.
So, burn every CD you have, if you can. During most bossfights, you will be able to pop them several times more throughout the fight, and there's no sense in wasting Rapid Fire's without BW/Trinket. Not to mention, getting the CD started so you can pop it again all the sooner.
Also consider that every GCD you use on a trinket/buff eats away at a damage shot you could have used. However, on fights such as curator where they have brief moments where they take a TON of extra damage, blow your CD's on those points.
Yep all your CD's at once mean more AP per shot and more shots per second. Means more damage.
What I do on every boss (have never pulled aggro once but am always biting at the tanks heals every second of every first minute) to never pull aggro is start the 1:1 arcane priority rotation when the tank reaches 5k aggro, then after only a couple rotations the tank is at 10k, feign death. Now the tank has 10k which is a good base for you to blow all your cooldowns because you and the tank will most likely reach 20k at the same time now. Add that at 30 yards range you need to have 130% aggro to pull the boss, you will 98% of the time be good until your feign death cools off.
Of course this all depends on your tank and learning his aggro gain will get you more in sync with your optimum starting DPS but the sooner you blow your cooldowns, the more dmg you will do througtout the course of a fight because you will get that many more uses of your abilities. This is all solely dependent on not having to stop spamming your attack macros for threat. So if you need to wait till your tank has 15k before blowing all your trinkets then that is what you have to do. I actually have my Omen set at 110% so I never even get close to actually pulling a boss.
Once someone calls 'start DPS' you have to find a groove where you never stop spamming your attack macros and maximize the amount of times you can use your trinkets and cooldowns.
What I do on every boss (have never pulled aggro once but am always biting at the tanks heals every second of every first minute) to never pull aggro is start the 1:1 arcane priority rotation when the tank reaches 5k aggro, then after only a couple rotations the tank is at 10k, feign death. Now the tank has 10k which is a good base for you to blow all your cooldowns because you and the tank will most likely reach 20k at the same time now. Add that at 30 yards range you need to have 130% aggro to pull the boss, you will 98% of the time be good until your feign death cools off.
Of course this all depends on your tank and learning his aggro gain will get you more in sync with your optimum starting DPS but the sooner you blow your cooldowns, the more dmg you will do througtout the course of a fight because you will get that many more uses of your abilities. This is all solely dependent on not having to stop spamming your attack macros for threat. So if you need to wait till your tank has 15k before blowing all your trinkets then that is what you have to do. I actually have my Omen set at 110% so I never even get close to actually pulling a boss.
Once someone calls 'start DPS' you have to find a groove where you never stop spamming your attack macros and maximize the amount of times you can use your trinkets and cooldowns.
North proved me grossly wrong, he makes an extremely valid point. The more shots you can put out with a higher AP will get you the biggest net increase in DPS in the long run, rather than using them one by one... so blow them all while yuo have rapid fire up and hope that Quick Shots procs to bump yuo up even more.
Thanks for the insight.
Thanks for the insight.
When I was BM this is what I would do... Rapid Fire + BW, AP Trink + Abbacus, so I would essentially have two +DMG + Speed rotations.
Now that I am SV with brooch... I MD aim, arc, steady... wait for 20k threat... Brooch + Rapid fire then when brooch is up use second +ap trinket... Trinkets have 2min cooldown RF has 3 min... So I pop my second +AP trinket soon as it's up, hold my brooch till RF has 5-4 seconds left cd (Brooch lasts 20 RF lasts 15), once at 5-4 sec RF CD I pop brooch and then RF when it is up.
I think you should blow all your CD's at once and then for your second trinket get the hourglass for when cd's are up and when you have low mana.
I am debating getting Hourglass but I really like how my current CD rotation works.
PS. Since you are BM and don't have SV super crits (I mean constant crits)I think you can manage to keep dps'ing until your cd buffs are up then FD. For SV you want to FD once you reach the point where you are 5 (5 to be safe) lucky crits in a row away from passing threat.
Now that I am SV with brooch... I MD aim, arc, steady... wait for 20k threat... Brooch + Rapid fire then when brooch is up use second +ap trinket... Trinkets have 2min cooldown RF has 3 min... So I pop my second +AP trinket soon as it's up, hold my brooch till RF has 5-4 seconds left cd (Brooch lasts 20 RF lasts 15), once at 5-4 sec RF CD I pop brooch and then RF when it is up.
I think you should blow all your CD's at once and then for your second trinket get the hourglass for when cd's are up and when you have low mana.
I am debating getting Hourglass but I really like how my current CD rotation works.
PS. Since you are BM and don't have SV super crits (I mean constant crits)I think you can manage to keep dps'ing until your cd buffs are up then FD. For SV you want to FD once you reach the point where you are 5 (5 to be safe) lucky crits in a row away from passing threat.
Now, this one has been getting to me all day...
BW + Blood Lust have a 2 minute cooldown
RF can have a 5 min, 4 min or 3 min cooldown.
That leaves a few different times at which they can "Sync up": 3 minutes, 4 minutes, 6 minutes or 10 minutes.
To use both of them at the same time every 3 minutes, you'd have to base it off of your RF (with 2 points into Rapid Killing). During a 10 minute fight, you'd be able to get off 4 of these rotations, with 1 minute left on your next BW, and 2 minutes on your next RF. You'd get 4 opportunities to use them together.
So this rotation would look like BW+RF, BW+RF, BW+RF, BW+RF
for a 4 minute sync up, you'd have to have only 1 point into Rapid Killing (I suppose you could have 2 points in it, but it would be a point wasted). This rotation would use BW every two minutes and RF every 4 minutes. You'd only get three opportunities to use them together, but two opportunities to use BW alone (again, considering a 10 minute fight).
This Rotation would be BW+RF, BW, BW+RF, BW, BW+BF
Now a 6 minute rotation would have to have 2 points into RF. This one just uses the two skills as soon as each of them are up. This creates 2 opportunities to use them together, 2 to use just BW, and 2 to use RF
It would be: BW+RF, BW, RF, BW, BW+RF, BW, RF
I'd go over the 10 minute rotation, but it's rare to see a raiding hunter that doesn't have any points into Rapid Killing, and it's obvious that it's not the best choice.
It took me long enough to think of all that. I'm not really sure how I would even go about testing which one is best. I suppose I could head out to Mr. Boom and test. I'm not sure I want to, though... I'm so wrapped up in school right now that I barely have enough time to do my dailies every day, let alone sit around and test stuff like that.
Anyone have any insight, or instructions on how to test that in Cheeky's Spreadsheet?
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 7:04pm by ProjectMidnight
BW + Blood Lust have a 2 minute cooldown
RF can have a 5 min, 4 min or 3 min cooldown.
That leaves a few different times at which they can "Sync up": 3 minutes, 4 minutes, 6 minutes or 10 minutes.
To use both of them at the same time every 3 minutes, you'd have to base it off of your RF (with 2 points into Rapid Killing). During a 10 minute fight, you'd be able to get off 4 of these rotations, with 1 minute left on your next BW, and 2 minutes on your next RF. You'd get 4 opportunities to use them together.
So this rotation would look like BW+RF, BW+RF, BW+RF, BW+RF
for a 4 minute sync up, you'd have to have only 1 point into Rapid Killing (I suppose you could have 2 points in it, but it would be a point wasted). This rotation would use BW every two minutes and RF every 4 minutes. You'd only get three opportunities to use them together, but two opportunities to use BW alone (again, considering a 10 minute fight).
This Rotation would be BW+RF, BW, BW+RF, BW, BW+BF
Now a 6 minute rotation would have to have 2 points into RF. This one just uses the two skills as soon as each of them are up. This creates 2 opportunities to use them together, 2 to use just BW, and 2 to use RF
It would be: BW+RF, BW, RF, BW, BW+RF, BW, RF
I'd go over the 10 minute rotation, but it's rare to see a raiding hunter that doesn't have any points into Rapid Killing, and it's obvious that it's not the best choice.
It took me long enough to think of all that. I'm not really sure how I would even go about testing which one is best. I suppose I could head out to Mr. Boom and test. I'm not sure I want to, though... I'm so wrapped up in school right now that I barely have enough time to do my dailies every day, let alone sit around and test stuff like that.
Anyone have any insight, or instructions on how to test that in Cheeky's Spreadsheet?
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 7:04pm by ProjectMidnight
This also depends somewhat on the fight.
Example. On prince, I'll MD and BW/trinket right at the beginning. Then at 60% they are usually up again and I'll add in RF and blow all the CD's.
You should generally be doing them all at once for the reasons north mentioned. I think that having the two points in rapid killing would be the best, but I haven't done the math.
Example. On prince, I'll MD and BW/trinket right at the beginning. Then at 60% they are usually up again and I'll add in RF and blow all the CD's.
You should generally be doing them all at once for the reasons north mentioned. I think that having the two points in rapid killing would be the best, but I haven't done the math.
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I have Rapid Fire and Bladefist's Breadth on the same macro...they activate simultaneously when I hit it, and then on prolonged fights if desired I can still use the same macro to activate whichever one is up if the other is still on cooldown. It's pretty straightforward: you have X seconds of increased AP...you want to get as many shots in with that boost as you possibly can before your AP returns to "normal". What I find, however, is that if I use them at the very start of a fight, I lose time off of them when I have to FD mid-burst or risk pulling hate off the tank. What I prefer to do is start normally, let the tank build at least 10-15k threat total, then FD and hit my macro...I usually get fairly close to the tank again, continue my normal shot rotation, and then by the time FD is off cooldown, I'm ready to use it again. No matter how you slice it, whether you blow the cooldowns at the very start or 20 seconds into the fight, you're going to be spending time in that fight with just your normal buffs (ie. no trinket/RF available). I'd rather spend a bit of that time at the start of the fight than lose even a second out of their duration on an FD/resume rotation.
I generally start out with blowing Bloodlust Brooch and RF, then misdirecting Aimed > Arcane > multi.
That way i can finish off my urst without grabbing aggro and the tank has a good load of aggro extra due to the added 278 AP.
That way i can finish off my urst without grabbing aggro and the tank has a good load of aggro extra due to the added 278 AP.
In 25 person raids I blow them all fast and early. The Hunters are keeping a MD rotation up, so pulling aggro is not an issue, and the faster I use the ability the faster I can use it again. Make those cool downs work for you. :)
In 10 person content and Instances I pace myself a bit more unless the tank is very good, but there it's not nearly as critical to get in all the DPS I can in the shortest period of time.
Edit: !! 1000th post :)
Edited, Jan 30th 2008 8:38pm by Kompera
In 10 person content and Instances I pace myself a bit more unless the tank is very good, but there it's not nearly as critical to get in all the DPS I can in the shortest period of time.
Edit: !! 1000th post :)
Edited, Jan 30th 2008 8:38pm by Kompera
It depends on what you are doing really.
PvP, blow all your CD, down them asap. I have 5 CD to blow, Bladefist, Rapid fire, intimidation, beast wrath, orc racial blood fury. I'll generally pop 3 at any given time.
PvE, I pop them 1 at a time to down a mob faster for quicker grinding, you can cycle through your CD that way as you grind.
PvP, blow all your CD, down them asap. I have 5 CD to blow, Bladefist, Rapid fire, intimidation, beast wrath, orc racial blood fury. I'll generally pop 3 at any given time.
PvE, I pop them 1 at a time to down a mob faster for quicker grinding, you can cycle through your CD that way as you grind.
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Rapid Fire
/cast Bestial Wrath
/cast Blood Fury
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
Uses trinkets/RF/BW/BF (if you have it) whenever they are on cooldown, as well fires your shot rotation. Very good mindless spam macro. =)
Edited, Feb 4th 2008 8:39am by DDDevilz
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Rapid Fire
/cast Bestial Wrath
/cast Blood Fury
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
Uses trinkets/RF/BW/BF (if you have it) whenever they are on cooldown, as well fires your shot rotation. Very good mindless spam macro. =)
Edited, Feb 4th 2008 8:39am by DDDevilz
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If I use that macro, how do I enter the name of my trinkets? ex. I have Bladefist, do I put /use Baldefist's Breath, the full name as written when I mouse over the trinket, or is there some kind of in game shortform I need to find out.
Brentron wrote:
If I use that macro, how do I enter the name of my trinkets? ex. I have Bladefist, do I put /use Baldefist's Breath, the full name as written when I mouse over the trinket, or is there some kind of in game shortform I need to find out.
/use 13
/use 14
These 2 lines attempts to use both trinket slots (regardless of the trinkets you are using). To explain it better, each equipment slot in your character window has a number assigned to it. It just so happens that the upper trinket slot is 13, and the lower is 14.
as a troll i rarely use rapid fire (i like my racial)
my suggestiong is this...
for a quick 1v1 or 2v2 fight go all out very quick as in just fire off rapid fire, TBW and any trinkets and any racials (if troll or orc) as you want the fight to be over quick incase the opponent gets smart ;P
for 3v3+ time ur racials. fire off trinkets ur macros for dps and wait on TBW and rapid fire to finish them off around last 10~25% health left
my suggestiong is this...
for a quick 1v1 or 2v2 fight go all out very quick as in just fire off rapid fire, TBW and any trinkets and any racials (if troll or orc) as you want the fight to be over quick incase the opponent gets smart ;P
for 3v3+ time ur racials. fire off trinkets ur macros for dps and wait on TBW and rapid fire to finish them off around last 10~25% health left
trollbash wrote:
as a troll i rarely use rapid fire (i like my racial)
Its much better and really really worth using.
In pvp i use it every time i have a chance to stand back and shoot and in AV its used on that captain guy änd drek´thar.
Its a massive increase in dps.
Oh, and i can activate my Rapid Fire, Bloodlust brooch and drums of war in between 2 autoshots.
So i skip only 1 steadyshot to activate them all and then i go full out.
trollbash wrote:
as a troll i rarely use rapid fire (i like my racial)
my suggestiong is this...
my suggestiong is this...
Berserking is a mere 10% speed boost (if uninjured) for 10 seconds. The best speed you can get from it is 30%. Rapid Fire is 40% for 15 seconds, regardless of your current Health.
Use RF first, and save Berserking for when you're injured. It's great for those times, such as in Arenas after RF wears off (if they haven't injured you for 15 seconds you've probably already won), or against Prince when you've got 1 Health.
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