Tonight will be our first Lady Vasj encounter.
I just checked her loot, and saw she drops Serpent Spine Longbow.
Yesterday I specced SV, since we simply didnt have a SV hunter. (Used to be BM, and you can see in my armory, gear kinda sux now, but nvm that for now)
Besides the boots: Cobra-Lash Boots, which would be an awesome upgrade for me, should I spend dkp on Serpent Longbow to replace my Sunfury, or not ? :s
Plz dont rate my current gear, still have to change echants+gems for my SV spec.
Besides the fact it does a bit more dps, will the agi loss matter much?
Been BM since day1, have read alot yesterday about SV etc, and the whole new auto-shot timer made me kinda nervous ;)
(Also theres a chance it wont drop ofcoz, this is just to speculate a bit ;) SSC hasnt been very nice on hunter drops for the last months anyway)
Anyway, hints,tips would be highly appreciated!
Thx in advance
Flitzz
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Wolfslayer > either of the other ones...
38 posts
Your answer confuses me tbh.
I thought for a SV shot rotation, a 2.90 or a 3.00 should be the aim?
And the fact Wolfslayer lacks (imo) alot dps?
Where did I took the wrong turn with these thoughts?
Besides that, I dont tink ill ever see Karazan again with hunter, so the question still remains, will it be an upgrade for my sunfury? Or better stick with it?
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 1:26pm by FlitzZie
I thought for a SV shot rotation, a 2.90 or a 3.00 should be the aim?
And the fact Wolfslayer lacks (imo) alot dps?
Where did I took the wrong turn with these thoughts?
Besides that, I dont tink ill ever see Karazan again with hunter, so the question still remains, will it be an upgrade for my sunfury? Or better stick with it?
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 1:26pm by FlitzZie
The vash bow is a great upgrade for your hunter. I luckily got the bow over 3 other hunters on our first vash kill. Add a +28 crit damage scope to it and you will see a marked improvement in your dps over all. The loss of the agi isnt that important as your gear improves you can make up the agi easily with agi gems. If that is the way you wish to gem your gear for playing.
However, if you plan on pvping the bow is a bit slow but still helpful. your prolly would want to take a look at the S3 Crossbow if you have high enough personal rating
Good luck on vash it is a tough fight
However, if you plan on pvping the bow is a bit slow but still helpful. your prolly would want to take a look at the S3 Crossbow if you have high enough personal rating
Good luck on vash it is a tough fight
Why is the Wolfslayer better than Sunfury? I have always thought of Sunfury as better, higher DPS, +19 Agility, more AP on it... I don't get it.
At tkasomething.com, it is generally accepted that the Wolfslayer is better than Sunfury:
http://forums.tkasomething.com/showthread.php?t=9717 (the conclusion I have put in bold, since I think it's easy to get lost in all the math sometimes)
EDIT: Oh, keep in mind this is for BM spec, i.e. 1:1 ratio. You might have to dig deeper in that thread for an answer on MM/SV specs.
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 1:35pm by Herbnosis
http://forums.tkasomething.com/showthread.php?t=9717 (the conclusion I have put in bold, since I think it's easy to get lost in all the math sometimes)
EDIT: Oh, keep in mind this is for BM spec, i.e. 1:1 ratio. You might have to dig deeper in that thread for an answer on MM/SV specs.
Quote:
Some simple math. We will assume a 1800 RAP Hunter and ignore crits (they increase by the same ratio, and aren't important for comparisons, same for most other talents)
Auto Shot Damage (+12 damage scope, 37 DPS Ammo):
Sunfury - 241.5 + 12 + 372.86 + 107.3 = 733.6
Wolfslayer - 213.5 + 12 + 347.14 + 99.9 = 672.54
Steady Shot Damage:
Sunfury - 150 + 233.24 + 360 = 743.24
Wolfslayer - 150 + 221.48 + 360 = 731.48
Damage in cycle:
Sunfury - 733.6 + 743.24 = 1476.84 / 2.9 = 509.26 DPS
Wolfslayer - 672.54 + 731.48 = 1404.02 / 2.7 = 520.01 DPS
Until you start clipping, all haste effects cancel out as well, and the ratio of +2.13% more DPS with the Wolfslayer holds true. As your RAP increases this becomes a greater and greater ratio.
In fact, we can solve for the equilibrium point pretty easily:
(241.5 + 12 + 107.3 + .2071*RAP + 150 + 233.24 + .2*RAP)/2.9 = (213.5 + 12 + .1929*RAP + 99.9 + 150 + 221.48 + .2*RAP)/2.7
(744.04 + .407*RAP)/2.9 = (696.88 + .3929*RAP)/2.7
256.57 + .1404*RAP = 258.10 + .1455*RAP
.1404*RAP = 1.53 + .1455*RAP
.0051RAP = -1.53
RAP = -300
So, this is saying for any positive RAP total, the Wolfslayer is a better weapon in a 1:1 rotation. This can also be seen by looking at the numbers with a 0 RAP total:
(241.5 + 12 +107.3 + 150 + 233.24)/2.9 = 256.57 DPS for Sunfury
(213.5 + 12 + 99.9 + 150 + 221.48)/2.7 = 258.10 for Wolfslayer, or 0.6% better.
Folks, as was true in 1.X of WoW, weapon speed >> weapon DPS, in most cases.
In order for the Wolfslayer to clip you need to get the autoshot time below 1.5s, and to do that requires 80% haste effects. But, anything over 93% haste also causes the Sunfury to have the same problem. For that narrow 13% range the Sunfury will do more DPS, but for everything else you are better off with a Wolfslayer.
Note: If you are routinely running 2 specials every other auto, you may find the same things to be true, as the only other special that is influenced by weapon DPS is Multi-Shot. I leave those equations as an exercise to the reader (or you could use my spreadsheet, which solves them all for you.)
This kind of anaylsis is why I ditched my Karazhan weapon for a Don Santos (that and the fact that the proc is incredible in any fight over 10-12 seconds.)
Auto Shot Damage (+12 damage scope, 37 DPS Ammo):
Sunfury - 241.5 + 12 + 372.86 + 107.3 = 733.6
Wolfslayer - 213.5 + 12 + 347.14 + 99.9 = 672.54
Steady Shot Damage:
Sunfury - 150 + 233.24 + 360 = 743.24
Wolfslayer - 150 + 221.48 + 360 = 731.48
Damage in cycle:
Sunfury - 733.6 + 743.24 = 1476.84 / 2.9 = 509.26 DPS
Wolfslayer - 672.54 + 731.48 = 1404.02 / 2.7 = 520.01 DPS
Until you start clipping, all haste effects cancel out as well, and the ratio of +2.13% more DPS with the Wolfslayer holds true. As your RAP increases this becomes a greater and greater ratio.
In fact, we can solve for the equilibrium point pretty easily:
(241.5 + 12 + 107.3 + .2071*RAP + 150 + 233.24 + .2*RAP)/2.9 = (213.5 + 12 + .1929*RAP + 99.9 + 150 + 221.48 + .2*RAP)/2.7
(744.04 + .407*RAP)/2.9 = (696.88 + .3929*RAP)/2.7
256.57 + .1404*RAP = 258.10 + .1455*RAP
.1404*RAP = 1.53 + .1455*RAP
.0051RAP = -1.53
RAP = -300
So, this is saying for any positive RAP total, the Wolfslayer is a better weapon in a 1:1 rotation. This can also be seen by looking at the numbers with a 0 RAP total:
(241.5 + 12 +107.3 + 150 + 233.24)/2.9 = 256.57 DPS for Sunfury
(213.5 + 12 + 99.9 + 150 + 221.48)/2.7 = 258.10 for Wolfslayer, or 0.6% better.
Folks, as was true in 1.X of WoW, weapon speed >> weapon DPS, in most cases.
In order for the Wolfslayer to clip you need to get the autoshot time below 1.5s, and to do that requires 80% haste effects. But, anything over 93% haste also causes the Sunfury to have the same problem. For that narrow 13% range the Sunfury will do more DPS, but for everything else you are better off with a Wolfslayer.
Note: If you are routinely running 2 specials every other auto, you may find the same things to be true, as the only other special that is influenced by weapon DPS is Multi-Shot. I leave those equations as an exercise to the reader (or you could use my spreadsheet, which solves them all for you.)
This kind of anaylsis is why I ditched my Karazhan weapon for a Don Santos (that and the fact that the proc is incredible in any fight over 10-12 seconds.)
Edited, Jan 29th 2008 1:35pm by Herbnosis
All I can say is wow, thats a lot of number crunching......
I will go for both and stick with whetever I get first I guess since both of them are better than the Silverhawk Crossbow from Attumen.... I just really don't like the sound of guns, but I'll deal with it if it's the best weapon I can get.
I will go for both and stick with whetever I get first I guess since both of them are better than the Silverhawk Crossbow from Attumen.... I just really don't like the sound of guns, but I'll deal with it if it's the best weapon I can get.
Yeah, that blew me away too. I ditched my Steelhawk for a Don Santos (which does just barely less than a Wolfslayer, but still more than a Steelhawk and Sunfury on any fight lasting more than 10 seconds).
Ack! You mean all this time I could have been using my Don Santos anyways? It's been gathering dust in the bank since I got my Steelhawk....
Bastids.
Too much number crunching.
Bastids.
Too much number crunching.
Weapon speed > pretty much anything else for hunter ranged weapons.
38 posts
Well, thx for replies.
I'm still a bit sceptic about the whole wolfslayer, but guess the numbers dont lie.
And thx for the good luck wishes :) We didnt do Vasj due to tank who wasnt able to come, so we went Al'ar instead. I slacked HARD on dps there btw :s Seems I keep f*cking up shot rotation.. Meh..
Before ill ask more questions, guess i should read a bit more. I rly thought the: Weapon speed > pretty much anything else for hunter ranged weapons. was different for SV hunter.
BM was so much easier -_-
Edited, Jan 30th 2008 10:26am by FlitzZie
I'm still a bit sceptic about the whole wolfslayer, but guess the numbers dont lie.
And thx for the good luck wishes :) We didnt do Vasj due to tank who wasnt able to come, so we went Al'ar instead. I slacked HARD on dps there btw :s Seems I keep f*cking up shot rotation.. Meh..
Before ill ask more questions, guess i should read a bit more. I rly thought the: Weapon speed > pretty much anything else for hunter ranged weapons. was different for SV hunter.
BM was so much easier -_-
Edited, Jan 30th 2008 10:26am by FlitzZie
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