Sticking up for the Big Guy (Rant)Follow

/signed

I actually wouldn't mind a link myself. Usually the smack is only laid down when someone cops a 'tude. Sure, a sarcastic "lawlret" can be seen, but I can't remember seeing the smack laid when someone asks a genuine question. They're usually gently, but matter-of-factly, told that paladins aren't the class for what they want to do.

Edit:


I think I could live with that.

Edited, Jan 30th 2008 4:46am by Poldaran

So... no one can actually find anything that validates the existence of this thread then?

Drama gets views.

Why?

If a Rogue asks what's the best way to PvE DPS as Shadowstep, he'll get smacked down before he takes two steps... and with good reason. If a Mage asks what the best DPS rotation is as 61 Arcane he'll get the same treatment.

What makes Ret special compared to all the other bad talent builds? That some people are passionate about it? Well, okay. That doesn't make it good. That makes them misguided.

If someone asks you what is the best brand of bleach to mix into cereal, is your response going to be "Tide!" or "I wouldn't do that"? There's nothing wrong with discouraging people... let's go with 'heavily discouraging' people from making a mistake, even if the response is outside the parameters of their original question.

i find ret very fun to play, despite its short commings. Isnt that what video games are all about?

oh wait, i have to impress other people on the internet with my leet dps. people i will never meet. impress them with sh*t that doesnt even exist.

alot of people will argue that being the best is also pretty fun, but also, being better then the unskilled or unknowledge with an underdog class/spec is also pretty damn rewarding.

what Bleach in your cerial???

Ret is not that bad, no class/spec is that bad. Maybe in upper tier raiding, or 2000+ arena they are too mediocre to be seen. but in the other 80% of the game, they are just as good as any given the right information.

information most people insist on not giving. rather they bash someones consepts of a charactor in a game that appeals to them.

Edited, Jan 30th 2008 9:50am by RuenBahamut

There isn't just one way to play this game, and you can do it however you want to. My guild takes me in as a Retribution Paladin for SSC and TK, and we're donig very well for a guild that's only existed for a month.

No, I don't do amazing DPS, but it's not bad DPS. I also bring utility with my judgements (which increases total raid dps by about 200-300), restores tons of mana to DPS, etc. etc. etc. As said, it's certainly not THE best spec, but I'm certainly pulling my weight in the raid.

Because you're not paying their monthly fee and if you can't respect individuality and free will, "helping out" here isn't your thing.

If the person asks for the best end-game Paladin build for healing, go ahead and convert away.



The Rogue example you're giving isn't the same as the one I'm giving. To bring out the Rogue analogy, my example is of a Rogue player who asks for the best Shadowstep build in terms of damage and then he's told by the veteran Rogue posters that he should spec Combat Swords instead.

Retribution isn't special. If I see someone asking for advice on how to optimize their Panzerkin, I don't tell them to roll a Warrior or respec Feral. Why not? Because obviously he wants to be a Moonkin tank. Fair enough, so let's start from there.

I won't even get into the last part of your post because it's just wrong.



Oh my god, RP. Okay, I lied, I will get into the last part of your post. What the hell? I'm sorry, but someone put a 'Kick me, I'm an elitist ***' note on your back. Want me to get it for you? Seriously, you have no business discouraging people from the playing the game the way they want. If they're making a mistake, let them learn it by trying, just like we did back when we started.

I see that your Warrior is Fury spec'd, so you obviously didn't listen to the mob telling you to go Protection, because that's all Warriors are good at end-game.

Edited, Jan 30th 2008 8:30pm by Mazra

Yeah, and you should stick to single player games, or LAN with RPZip. You two would make an excellent team. In a closed environment.

This game is for everyone, not just the hardcore players who can't stand to lose. Wake up and smell the roses. If winning is such a big ordeal for you, this isn't your game. Go play The Witcher, Fable or some other single player RPG. You need to learn and accept the fact that online you don't choose your company, at least not all the time.

You do have options, though. Preview someone's talents before joining up with them. Will severely reduce the amount of times you accidentally group up with an "off-spec freak." Join AV as a group. All you need is 39 people who don't mind your attitude. Should be easy. RPZip will make it 38.

When 9/10 or 14/15 of the people in your battleground have a clue in terms of spec/gear and then there is that odd man who's a dumbass in the same terms i dont think anyone would be out of line saying that person is a burden and a complete waste of space. Are they out there? yes. Do i accept it? yes. Still pisses me off. I dont have the best gear, i dont have the best skills. But i at least try to spec/gear in a way that will help me and my fellow players the most. Unfortunately skillz arent as handicapped accessible as a good spec and good gear in this game and thusly i am very forgiving of people who just arent good. Sometimes that cant be helped.



First, you do that for pugs on my server and you will be sitting around for a week. Gotta deal with it. Its a shame it could be so easily fixed if the person had gotten some decent guidance at some point.

Second, av is ****.

All i know is that if i played wow and never visited a forum i would be some major scrub. Im glad im not and i would never want to advise somebody into purposefully gimping themselves or their team/guild/friends. Since this thread stemmed from "lawl ret" im going to say this: I agree with the reasoning behind "lawl ret", i mean i know the posters here and i know where they are coming from, but i also think there are better ways to convey the same message without making the person feel attacked or mocked. Same goes for any thread on any subject.

Edit: Slow posting is slow. This post is a response to RPZip's post above.

AH! But there's a difference between giving advice and telling people they suck if they spec a certain way. Never said I was against giving advice, but converting people into something they don't want to be, just because it's how you do things. That's bad. And not helpful at all.

As for off-spec players becoming your business when you interact with them. There are a lot of options available in the game that allows you to thoroughly screen a player before putting him in your group and putting your virtual life in his hands. That looks just as dorky as I imagined it would, by the way.

No one's forcing you to group up with Mr. 1/30/30. If you do end up in a group with him, he's not really the one to blame. I'm using Examiner so I don't know what the default UI command is, but inspect the guy and click on his talents tab. That's right, new feature. Works for enemy characters as well, for your information.

Ps. I'd rather be in AV with a good Retadin than a poor Holy..adin? Protection Paladins are only good for tanking Drek and Galv, anyways.

Edited, Jan 30th 2008 9:54pm by Mazra

wow, i missed alot being at work all day.

first, Ret is arguably the pally dps spec. Moonkin is arguably NOT the druid tank spec and Shadowstep is arguably NOT the raid dps spec for rogue. second, not everyone is farming TK/BT/Hyjal and competing at 2400 arenas, just the contrary. lastly, if Ret was not viable i would not have kept the spec throughout Kara/SSC/Gruuls. actually, Kara without a Ret pally is less of a treat for my guild. and i do spec Prot as needed.

i keep playing my epic'd pally over my epic'd mage because it is more fun, i can produce equal or greater results, and generally makes runs smoother.


if anyone is interested: Ret pallies CAN top HK/Dmg meters, return/cap the most flags, cap/hold nodes in BG. Ret pallies CAN make it past 1600 2v2 arena. Ret pallies CAN top the dmg meters in Kara(including healing on Maiden) while OTing(we run with only 1 druid tank currently). i know these for fact because i have done them all. i am far from best player but am proud of my accomplishments and will acheive greater as i go. i still hold to the agreement i had with my guild leader...i will remain Ret until i am no longer viable. enjoy.

Actually, I finally figured out melee hunters. If you look at the survival tree in that old talent thing that Jack posted in that other thread, that's exactly what it's for. Even has melee specialization as one of the talents. All these melee hunters just haven't realized they've changed the talents since then. :)

(Okay, okay, just trying to add some levity...this place is getting all depressing and heavy lately.)