Sticking up for the Big Guy (Rant)Follow

Not necessarily directed at you, but a point in general: why should Ret Paladins be the only spec STILL not viable?

aren't daggers viable in pve?

Shows how much I know about Rogues, lol >.< But on the other hand, all a Rogue CAN do is DPS, and every class but Paladin has a DPS spec that can be viable now, so the question remains, why can't Paladin's Ret tree be viable? Granted there's probably no one on these boards with the "authority" to answer this, but that is a question I would dearly love to have some official answer to.

I did say can be viable, and Gaudion did mention:



so when CC is covered, Shaman can be brought in for a DPS slot, and played right put out great DPS. But, isn't that the same for a Crit Chicken or Cat Druid? Arms/Fury Warrior?

Generally speaking when any CC needed is covered and you're filling DPS slots, 8 classes will be considered for those slots: leaving out Paladins.

Hey! Whats up with Prots paly's. They are not that bad. Ret suck a little but prots are very cool and at PvP arent that bad either.

Yes they have the POSSIBILITY of bringing stuff to a raid, however the amount is not comparable to other classes. The crit and judgment refreshments are NOT equal to the utility of a shadow priest, or shaman totems, etc. With the reduced size of raids, the first thing to go were the classes whose contribution (either in utility or raw DPS) were the first to go. If you're going to talk about what is possible, then by that theory you could make a case that moonkin druids should be the main tank for Gruul. Its been done, so it certainly possible. If its possible you should do it right? No. Stay away from ret until Blizzard decides to fix it.

I agree with Dilbert, I think ret is more like a hardcore spec for those who can play it well and are commited to do it, and there aren't many of those. But people who have just started, like me, cannot put Ret to a good use because it's a hard spec to play. When Blizzard decides to fix this the spec suddenly becomes a lot easier to play for all paladins. I think that's the key-issue here. It just requires a lot of time and patience to get it tuned.

,Zignaestos

RANT

I just have one question. If you wanted to DPS, why the heck did you roll a pally?

I'm getting tired of reading all the whining from all the different classes. Each wishing they could do it all. So therefore I propose the following:

Get rid of racials. They are not balanced. Choose you race because you like the look.

Get rid of classes. Every character will have 27 talent trees to choose from and 41 points to spend. Choose wisely. All trainers will train spells to anyone. You now have your wish. Do what you want. If you ***** up your toon, it's your fault. You want to heal, focus on all the healing skills and talents. DPS or Tank? Same thing. I don't want all the work blizz has put into the talent trees to go to waste.

/rant

*edit* But DO NOT ridicule people because they don't want to play the way you do.

Edited, Jan 29th 2008 8:18pm by Ambarius

You've gotta be hitting your head against the wall pretty hard. Are you planning on rerolling DK?

This is a little tricky to explain.

From my understanding, dagger rogues aren't really dead. You still need daggers for a mutilate build, which is really all that Rogues have going for them at the moment. The main advantages of Subtlety is the utility of ShS, because hemo was nerfed very recently (a 15% loss in damage) Combat Swords still destroys any dagger build, but there are still muti rogues around, and they still work.

The real problem is that the introduction of Resilience kills the reliability of a rogue's critical hits after level 60, so that sustained, reliable damage (SS to the face over and over) became more desirable than one-shotting clothies with Ambush. Although this is still possible.



The real thing that kills daggers in PvE is their combo point generation. Your main move is Backstab, not Sinister Strike, and to pull off a Backstab (which already costs more than imp. SS) you need to Gouge. So the energy efficiency is horrible compared to Combat, and combo points build up slowly. Compare this to a typical Combat/swords build, which can literally walk up to a mob, spam 3 SS's in a couple of seconds, then keep Slice and Dice and Rupture up for the duration of the fight. You don't even need to stealth to kill effectively. What's more, Blade Flurry means you can kill two mobs at once, and Adrenaline Rush means your Sinister Strike spamming just became twice as fast.

I haven't got an end-game rogue, so anyone who does can feel free to correct me (politely) but this is what I've gathered so far.

Sh*t, why am I chatting about Rogue builds I don't have experience with on a topic about Retadins...erm...uhh...lawl ret?

XD

Yes, but that's an invalid analogy in many cases. When you're trying to bake a citrus tart(do good DPS) and someone wants to use apples(paladins), then it's perfectly valid to tell them that apples(paladins) are the wrong fruit(class) for the job and to either change the application to a fruit pie(heal or tank) or to pick an actual type of citrus fruit(a class that can DPS).

Indeed. You're aware that the converse is also true, yes?

My point is that if someone wants to be Retribution, the veterans should respect it and help him be a better Retribution Paladin. Not convert him into Protection or Holy.

I've seen too many regulars put the smack down on newbies who come for advice about Retribution. Why smack a guy around when he asks for Retribution tips? Either help the poster or GTFO. That's the number one rule on all the "serious" forums here and I take it this is a serious forum?

I'm just puzzled we're even discussing this.