/rant
I have been on these forums for a while now, and there has always been one tune that has never changed.
"Ret Sucks"
"Lawl Ret"
"OMG You specced Ret, you suck!"
etc... etc...
It has been getting worse and worse lately, and it really is starting to get old to me and I think a lot of people on these forums.
The fact is there are many many potential Paladins who look at these forums looking for advice. They may be starting out, they may be end-game, who knows. Looking at the FAQ, it's been viewed over 5,000 times, many of those views are from people who have never posted on here, and may never will. These forums are here to be helpful for the most part, and putting someone down about their spec, especially if the info you are giving them isn't relevant, is not helpful.
How many times has this happened? (or at least something like it)
"What kind of weapon should I be using at 48? I'm ret and want to get the most dps out of it."
Response:
"Lawl Ret"
"Ret really isn't viable end-game or at PvP, you should just respec now to save yourself the trouble later"
"Haha look at the Retnoob"
"Just use whatever you are using now and you can get the Ice Barbed Spear at level 51"
One of these is helpful, the others are uninformative, informative about something he didn't ask for, or just hurtful. It really happens too much around here. You are NOT playing their chars. They may really enjoy dpsing as a ret, and just don't like playing any of the other dps classes. It does happen, and just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you have to constantly bash it, especially to people here.
If they ask about ret viability end-game, go ahead and give them the facts. There's no need to be rude or insulting about it. If they decide to be asshats about it, then go ahead and rip them a new one, hell I'll join ya. But some people really don't look at statistics and videos and just want a quick simple answer. One that they can go "Oh ok" and move on.
A Retribution FAQ has been added here, and it's really something that will be very helpful to retribution paladins who are devoted to their spec. They may already be well aware of the short-comings of ret, but they don't need it repeatedly shoved in their face. ToJ put a ton of work and time into it, and it wouldn't hurt to just pat him on the back, appreciate that he enjoys the spec, know that he's wrong when it comes to 25-mans, and move on.
All I'm saying is, let's just show a little Paladin solidarity here. You may not like ret, or think that it's useless, but you don't have to be antagonistic about it. Just answer the question and move on.
/rantoff
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- Sticking up for the Big Guy (Rant)
Sticking up for the Big Guy (Rant)Follow
Do you need a Midol?
(what, I'm trying to be helpful! I thought that was the point)
(what, I'm trying to be helpful! I thought that was the point)
And now for a serious reply.
You make some valid points. However, I really think you're taking some of this too seriously. The whole Lawl Ret thing is just what it is. I still chuckle. I also chuckle when Dil says that paladins can't tank.
My point is that if people are going to play a paladin any other spec than holy, they're going to need to be able to laugh stuff off, have thicker skin, and have the stones to prove people wrong.
Here they'll get 1 or 2 good, useful posts out of every 5 posts(I've not really seen the "haha look at the retnoob" here, I think you're overreacting). In the game they're going to get much, MUCH worse.
Am I saying that we should go out of our way to be nasty? No. What I'm saying is that if someone gets riled because not everyone here gave them lolipops and fed them puppies then, and I mean this in the most helpful way, maybe they should respec holy or roll another class. Because it only gets worse out in the game.
You make some valid points. However, I really think you're taking some of this too seriously. The whole Lawl Ret thing is just what it is. I still chuckle. I also chuckle when Dil says that paladins can't tank.
My point is that if people are going to play a paladin any other spec than holy, they're going to need to be able to laugh stuff off, have thicker skin, and have the stones to prove people wrong.
Here they'll get 1 or 2 good, useful posts out of every 5 posts(I've not really seen the "haha look at the retnoob" here, I think you're overreacting). In the game they're going to get much, MUCH worse.
Am I saying that we should go out of our way to be nasty? No. What I'm saying is that if someone gets riled because not everyone here gave them lolipops and fed them puppies then, and I mean this in the most helpful way, maybe they should respec holy or roll another class. Because it only gets worse out in the game.
I dont like it either. Its cool when its the regulars on here dropping it in every now and then but when you see it on realms its downright annoying. I laugh at people who sit there and say that Paladins are only good healers, especially the ones that are Holy Paladins. Take some pride in your class instead of beating it down.
I've noticed it.
If I still had the karma rating to give rep, I would be repping Cap up so much right now. He is absolutely correct. Again.
If I still had the karma rating to give rep, I would be repping Cap up so much right now. He is absolutely correct. Again.
I'm not talking about feeding them puppies and giving them lollipops, just being helpful instead of hurtful (and I was exaggerating a bit on the Retnoob thing, but some posts don't seem too far from that). Someone asks about a Holy question, they will immediately get an answer, same thing for prot. For a retribution question, they have to wait for ToJ or Tommy or one of the other resident rets to give them a straight answer, assuming they keep reading the post after the ret bashing at the beginning and don't just give up altogether.
Quote:
Here they'll get 1 or 2 good, useful posts out of every 5 posts(I've not really seen the "haha look at the retnoob" here, I think you're overreacting). In the game they're going to get much, MUCH worse.
a little cynical maybe? its like your pops beatin the **** out of you everyday to make you tougher for lifes bullies.
i might suggest a bit more constructive guidance. WoW life is only 10% A-holes, the rest may actually want to see/help you succeed...especially in a guild.
i think alot of peeps dont know as much as they think they do about ret. meaning yeah they may know bench marks but dont know how to really play it right is why they lawl ret it or what not. i my self dont know much of ret i've been prot just about all the way. i tryed going to ret at 62 and the 4 pieces i changed to ret stuff wasnt enough so i went back to prot.
i will say even though 2 hander prot sucks i've seen some times when it's been little faster. ie reckoning proc on a caster was nice. so maybe some ret stuff would be faster i just dont have the funds to buy gear and test stuff out while lvling. oh btw goal is 70 by feb 7th atm 65 and like 5 bars.
i will say even though 2 hander prot sucks i've seen some times when it's been little faster. ie reckoning proc on a caster was nice. so maybe some ret stuff would be faster i just dont have the funds to buy gear and test stuff out while lvling. oh btw goal is 70 by feb 7th atm 65 and like 5 bars.
tommyguns wrote:
Quote:
Here they'll get 1 or 2 good, useful posts out of every 5 posts(I've not really seen the "haha look at the retnoob" here, I think you're overreacting). In the game they're going to get much, MUCH worse.
a little cynical maybe? its like your pops beatin the sh*t out of you everyday to make you tougher for lifes bullies.
Not really cynical. I've heard much worse than "Lawl prot" (I mean lets face it, that's, by and large, the extent of most posts around here) when trying to get groups for tanking. It's gotten better but ret viability is still even new thank tanking viability.
I knew someone would throw up a tidy little strawman to detract from what I, you know, actually said. It's more like your dad not giving you all the money you ever wanted for your allowance because you should learn the value of hard work. It's like your parents telling you to look stuff up in the dictionary to teach you how to use the tools. It's quite like your parents playing devil's advocate with you to teach you how to THINK.
As to Jack, I think what may be happening is that there are all sorts of forum injokes and Lawl Ret is one of them. Unfortunately we're getting people in here who probably don't quite understand the spirit of those comments. The few that I've seen that are worse than "Lawl ret" are from people that I've not really seen around this particular class forum.
I have to agree with and support Jack here 100%. Some of you may have noticed not long before this thread went up I made a shorter version of this in ToJ's Ret guide thread. Sure there's forum in jokes, but let's face the facts here: people with Ret questions do NOT get the same treatment here that Prot/Holy do. I've said it, Jack said it, this is not your $15 a month, it's theirs, so why not just give them an answer to what they want to know instead of put them down? If I wanted to get laughed at for a spec, I'd post on the WoW official forums. If I wanted Ret advice, I'd avoid those forums like the plague and post here. Don't turn this place into the cess-pool that the official WoW forums are ...
You could have just cut to the chase and directed this at me, I know you wanted to.
OK, look. Any ret guide made is going to be someone's attempt to explain how you would go about trying to be the best ret paladin you can in a PvE situation. Are you or is anyone else going to add a question to the FAQ "Why shouldn't you spec ret?" Hmm? I haven't seen a single person write a guide saying something to that effect, and I am pretty dang well sure no one will have the gumption to actually put it in the legit guides.
I'm sorry that you're tired of lawl ret. I'm sorry that whenever you make a post regarding ret, you get 50+% posts laughing at the person for trying to go ret. Do you know why? Because ret blows. There are two ways to play ret. One, level up as one and celebrate when you break top 7 DPS, and two play another spec all the way until the end of the game (or at least end of what your guild can accomplish) and you don't have anything else to do, so you might as well get some ret gear. Yes, the changes to threat helped. Yes, ret still sucks anyway. Ret DPS is unreliable, and aside from a crappy 3% crit (which most guilds live without and do just fine) and refreshing judgments (again, what most guilds don't need), ret offers very little to a raid or party structure. Their DPS is crappy. They have no CC. They have no real raid utility that's essential to the raid (ie. try to do a raid without any mages, or without any priests, or without any rogues when you need interrupts).
There are ZERO raids that sit there and go "gee we're just going to have to get by with this raid, we don't have any ret paladins. Its not going to be fun, but we'll manage it." They say that with pretty much every other class in the game. They say that with protection paladins, and the sure as HECK say that in regards to holy paladins.
Don't blame me, blame Blizzard. They screwed ret paladins when they reduced the raid size to 25. There are fights that are strong DPS challenges (and no, Gruul is not really one of them, I've lasted through grow 16), and ret just simply cannot output the DPS needed to keep up with the rogues, mages, warlocks, or even the DPS warriors.
Now to PvP. OK I'll be honest, I'm not a big PvPer. I haven't cared for the system since they got rid of the ranks, so I don't do it. However I talk to a LOT of people that are hardcore arena people. Without exception every time I ask them about ret in arena they either say one of two things; "I see a ret paladin and I see free arena points" OR "That ret paladin was actually pretty good, he sat back and healed." If you're going to sit back and heal, why would you bother speccing ret when you could be a healer?
I'd LOVE for Blizzard to fix ret paladins. I'd LOVE for their raid utility to increase, for their DPS to increase, and for the desire of others for ret paladins increase where every guild has a ret paladin. However I don't see that happening.... ever. I think Blizzard has so screwed up the class and the environment (you could manage to have off-specs in 40 man raids, but not in 25) that ret is in an event horizon. Until things change, my opinion will not change and I could give to craps what you or anyone else thinks. If you don't like what I say, rate me down. However, if you actually READ what I say you'll find out that I'm actually right more than I'm wrong once I stop kidding around and talk seriously. This is no exception. Ret sucks and none of the guide writers have the gumption to include that in their guides, and so the only thing I can do is to make fun of the little nooblings that stumble upon this area.
OK, look. Any ret guide made is going to be someone's attempt to explain how you would go about trying to be the best ret paladin you can in a PvE situation. Are you or is anyone else going to add a question to the FAQ "Why shouldn't you spec ret?" Hmm? I haven't seen a single person write a guide saying something to that effect, and I am pretty dang well sure no one will have the gumption to actually put it in the legit guides.
I'm sorry that you're tired of lawl ret. I'm sorry that whenever you make a post regarding ret, you get 50+% posts laughing at the person for trying to go ret. Do you know why? Because ret blows. There are two ways to play ret. One, level up as one and celebrate when you break top 7 DPS, and two play another spec all the way until the end of the game (or at least end of what your guild can accomplish) and you don't have anything else to do, so you might as well get some ret gear. Yes, the changes to threat helped. Yes, ret still sucks anyway. Ret DPS is unreliable, and aside from a crappy 3% crit (which most guilds live without and do just fine) and refreshing judgments (again, what most guilds don't need), ret offers very little to a raid or party structure. Their DPS is crappy. They have no CC. They have no real raid utility that's essential to the raid (ie. try to do a raid without any mages, or without any priests, or without any rogues when you need interrupts).
There are ZERO raids that sit there and go "gee we're just going to have to get by with this raid, we don't have any ret paladins. Its not going to be fun, but we'll manage it." They say that with pretty much every other class in the game. They say that with protection paladins, and the sure as HECK say that in regards to holy paladins.
Don't blame me, blame Blizzard. They screwed ret paladins when they reduced the raid size to 25. There are fights that are strong DPS challenges (and no, Gruul is not really one of them, I've lasted through grow 16), and ret just simply cannot output the DPS needed to keep up with the rogues, mages, warlocks, or even the DPS warriors.
Now to PvP. OK I'll be honest, I'm not a big PvPer. I haven't cared for the system since they got rid of the ranks, so I don't do it. However I talk to a LOT of people that are hardcore arena people. Without exception every time I ask them about ret in arena they either say one of two things; "I see a ret paladin and I see free arena points" OR "That ret paladin was actually pretty good, he sat back and healed." If you're going to sit back and heal, why would you bother speccing ret when you could be a healer?
I'd LOVE for Blizzard to fix ret paladins. I'd LOVE for their raid utility to increase, for their DPS to increase, and for the desire of others for ret paladins increase where every guild has a ret paladin. However I don't see that happening.... ever. I think Blizzard has so screwed up the class and the environment (you could manage to have off-specs in 40 man raids, but not in 25) that ret is in an event horizon. Until things change, my opinion will not change and I could give to craps what you or anyone else thinks. If you don't like what I say, rate me down. However, if you actually READ what I say you'll find out that I'm actually right more than I'm wrong once I stop kidding around and talk seriously. This is no exception. Ret sucks and none of the guide writers have the gumption to include that in their guides, and so the only thing I can do is to make fun of the little nooblings that stumble upon this area.
I guess the reason I'm thinking that this is all a bit "mountain out of a molehill" is, on a quick search of "ret" in the pally foums I just don't see what you're talking about.
1 tool (as opposed to a Toolofjesus) per thread does not an O-boards cesspit make. I mean look at the help and consideration give in this thread or this or this.
Unless you're referring to Bodhi's threads and posts in which case, just check his sig. He's got the disclaimer right there up front.
What am I missing?
1 tool (as opposed to a Toolofjesus) per thread does not an O-boards cesspit make. I mean look at the help and consideration give in this thread or this or this.
Unless you're referring to Bodhi's threads and posts in which case, just check his sig. He's got the disclaimer right there up front.
What am I missing?
and i've said it before: its one thing to take flak from in-game characters who have no idea. its another thing to read non-advice from the elitists on your very own board. the title above your avatar does actually command respect. some choose to use that respect for validation, others use it to stroke the epeen.
# posts = # myspace friends. how many are actual posts and how many are actual friends.
# posts = # myspace friends. how many are actual posts and how many are actual friends.
From that first thread you linked:
Seems to sum up what myself, Jack, others are saying here. Sure we may be making it a bit bigger than it really is, but the perception for newer members here really IS that bad. And we all know how perception > reality.
Quote:
I could care less if you like Ret or not, I do, and I asked a question. Would anyone actually have an answer, please?
Seems to sum up what myself, Jack, others are saying here. Sure we may be making it a bit bigger than it really is, but the perception for newer members here really IS that bad. And we all know how perception > reality.
Maulgak wrote:
From that first thread you linked:
Seems to sum up what myself, Jack, others are saying here. Sure we may be making it a bit bigger than it really is, but the perception for newer members here really IS that bad. And we all know how perception > reality.
Quote:
I could care less if you like Ret or not, I do, and I asked a question. Would anyone actually have an answer, please?
Seems to sum up what myself, Jack, others are saying here. Sure we may be making it a bit bigger than it really is, but the perception for newer members here really IS that bad. And we all know how perception > reality.
That was in response to the one (and punkspider's lame post pharm) reply he got. This thread would have me believe that there's some massive and pervasive influx of sewage going on here. With the exception of that one section of an otherwise helpful thread (and what of the other 2 I posted?), it can't really be found outside of the "lawl ret" thing. Which I guess would lend credence to the fact that Jack should have just taken this to PMs with Dil.
I will tell a guy who is brand new and wondering about the class the stark and unarguable truth that end game, Paladin is the worst Melee dps class in the game. If he truly wishes to DPS then he would do himself a favour to look at a rogue or even a Warrior first.
If a Ret who playing with undergeared, poorly specced players in the earliest steps of end game wishes to make a claim of Ret dps leetness I will more than happily point out a world of knowledge, both personal and beyond, that shows exactly how Ret is an unviable raiding class.
Play what you play and enjoy it. But when people ask for information, or provide information that comes from a very clear ignorance of the game then I will always be hear to do what I do. As the sig says, I often don't do it nicely.
As for Dilbrt's claims about Prot Pally, well he is correct. A prot pally simply cannot match a Druid or Warrior on single target dps, they don't stack up. As one progresses in end game the reality of it becomes more and more clear. There is also the issue of an OT maintaining secondary aggro and how when a Prot pally is not getting hit he is unable to keep up second on threat list without hampering dps, which as you go along becomes more of a problem.
I may trivialize it and say "Lawl ret" but the simple fact is that at multiple points in the past I have gone into depth and pointed out the flaws, shown the numbers, exposed the ignorance of the people who are standing on the other side. I might not have been a care bear about it but that doesnt negate it. You can forgive me if I happen to take the easy way and laugh at the futility of trying to tell a guy who believes the sky to be green that it is in fact blue, when he could find out for himself if he just took the time too look.
If a Ret who playing with undergeared, poorly specced players in the earliest steps of end game wishes to make a claim of Ret dps leetness I will more than happily point out a world of knowledge, both personal and beyond, that shows exactly how Ret is an unviable raiding class.
Play what you play and enjoy it. But when people ask for information, or provide information that comes from a very clear ignorance of the game then I will always be hear to do what I do. As the sig says, I often don't do it nicely.
As for Dilbrt's claims about Prot Pally, well he is correct. A prot pally simply cannot match a Druid or Warrior on single target dps, they don't stack up. As one progresses in end game the reality of it becomes more and more clear. There is also the issue of an OT maintaining secondary aggro and how when a Prot pally is not getting hit he is unable to keep up second on threat list without hampering dps, which as you go along becomes more of a problem.
I may trivialize it and say "Lawl ret" but the simple fact is that at multiple points in the past I have gone into depth and pointed out the flaws, shown the numbers, exposed the ignorance of the people who are standing on the other side. I might not have been a care bear about it but that doesnt negate it. You can forgive me if I happen to take the easy way and laugh at the futility of trying to tell a guy who believes the sky to be green that it is in fact blue, when he could find out for himself if he just took the time too look.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
That being said about Prot, I love to have one in Kara/ZA.
On Gruul they fail, Mag they can do the summoners but I wouldnt have one tank Mag himself. In SSC they handle trash just fine and on a number of bosses they can be used, such as for TW, FL, Hydross and Lurker. In TK:Eye they shine on trash, and work well on A'lar and Solarion.
That being said most raid guilds can use Prot/Druid to handle all those situations without any significant hassle, whereas there are fights where a Prot Pally is a 5th wheel which you can't afford to have. So most raid guilds weigh the advantages and disadvantages and do it without. Those that do use Prot pallies and go into 25 t5 and beyond tend to only need 1 prot pally per raid, where they might have 2 warriors, 2 druids etc depending on make up and play time.
On Gruul they fail, Mag they can do the summoners but I wouldnt have one tank Mag himself. In SSC they handle trash just fine and on a number of bosses they can be used, such as for TW, FL, Hydross and Lurker. In TK:Eye they shine on trash, and work well on A'lar and Solarion.
That being said most raid guilds can use Prot/Druid to handle all those situations without any significant hassle, whereas there are fights where a Prot Pally is a 5th wheel which you can't afford to have. So most raid guilds weigh the advantages and disadvantages and do it without. Those that do use Prot pallies and go into 25 t5 and beyond tend to only need 1 prot pally per raid, where they might have 2 warriors, 2 druids etc depending on make up and play time.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
You kinda got off-topic bod, but since you're there I'll throw in another point. Prot paladins are pure godsend in Hyjal. I've done Hyjal with and without a protection paladin and let me tell you that doing Hyjal without one is about as fun as getting a prostate exam. There are situations where you need certain classes (ie. rogue on Kael, holy or prot (holy is actually better, but doable with prot) paladin on Tidewalker, Mage on High King) but getting back on topic, there isn't a single situation currently in the game that you NEED a ret paladin.
Honestly, Cap, I've never had a problem with people playing Ret... ever. I've always tried to give tips when I can, while still laying out the undeniable truth of the hard road they've got in front of them. To people that I think are willing to accept it. My mantra has always been, "It is your character. You should play it how you want to. However, you need to be prepared to accept the inherent limitations and in-game, end-game discrimination that will inevitably come with it."
My personal beef, and the reason my responses usually go south... is that almost every Ret thread, whether by a first-timer asking for advice or a would-be veteran trying to give it, is accompanied by some variation of, "Ret rocks."
I don't mind the newbies asking for Retribution advice. What I do mind is some orange-name popping in here every few weeks with a novel trying to explain to us why Retribution is so freakin' sweet when it's... just... really not.
My personal beef, and the reason my responses usually go south... is that almost every Ret thread, whether by a first-timer asking for advice or a would-be veteran trying to give it, is accompanied by some variation of, "Ret rocks."
I don't mind the newbies asking for Retribution advice. What I do mind is some orange-name popping in here every few weeks with a novel trying to explain to us why Retribution is so freakin' sweet when it's... just... really not.
To a new player in his 30s or 40s who has never played a Rogue or a Mage, Retribution does rock.
My first ever serious WoW character was way back in 2004-5, when the game was still new, and he was a retadin all the way up to level 58. I had the most idiotic talent build imaginable, my damage was ****-poor, I was healing 80% of the time I did instances but hadn't figured out how to use Flash of Light...total noobishness. But because I hadn't played the game that long I hadn't picked up the potential of other classes and specialisations. When people make posts like "Ret rocks" they're not speaking out of stupidity, just inexperience. And most of the time they're reacting to a statement like "Ret sucks" which they've heard somewhere else.
It's true, Retribution is a pretty useless specialisation for end-game. That's a big problem that Blizzard has been trying to fix ever since day one. I remember when Blessing of Kings was Retribution's ultimate end-game talent point. This is before Repentance. Blessing of Kings. Look at how far Retadins have come since then!
Jack makes it clear in the title that this is a rant, so those surprised at its rant-iness...shouldn't be surprised. The fact is that it's easy for newer posters to misunderstand our cultured paladin humour, and everyone should just make sure that for every "lawl ret" there's a "That guy's just kidding, here are the facts, do what you will" just after. Just some paladin-to-paladin good manners. We all know paladins are awesome, it's why we play them. No need to diss our own class when we can laugh at those silly Rogues and their steadily falling Arena ratings.
My first ever serious WoW character was way back in 2004-5, when the game was still new, and he was a retadin all the way up to level 58. I had the most idiotic talent build imaginable, my damage was ****-poor, I was healing 80% of the time I did instances but hadn't figured out how to use Flash of Light...total noobishness. But because I hadn't played the game that long I hadn't picked up the potential of other classes and specialisations. When people make posts like "Ret rocks" they're not speaking out of stupidity, just inexperience. And most of the time they're reacting to a statement like "Ret sucks" which they've heard somewhere else.
It's true, Retribution is a pretty useless specialisation for end-game. That's a big problem that Blizzard has been trying to fix ever since day one. I remember when Blessing of Kings was Retribution's ultimate end-game talent point. This is before Repentance. Blessing of Kings. Look at how far Retadins have come since then!
Jack makes it clear in the title that this is a rant, so those surprised at its rant-iness...shouldn't be surprised. The fact is that it's easy for newer posters to misunderstand our cultured paladin humour, and everyone should just make sure that for every "lawl ret" there's a "That guy's just kidding, here are the facts, do what you will" just after. Just some paladin-to-paladin good manners. We all know paladins are awesome, it's why we play them. No need to diss our own class when we can laugh at those silly Rogues and their steadily falling Arena ratings.
23 posts
I agree with you jack wholeheartly it has honestly gotten to the point where I don't ask this forum for help anymore. I took what bits anpeices i could get from the various forums and experemented myself, as a result after a Black Morass run (where i still didnt get my hourglass yet grrrr)i was invited into good raiding guild. They were impressed the my dps was topping there rogue's constantly, so for now i do kara and i stay ret.
Edited, Jan 28th 2008 2:53am by raisentheblade
Edited, Jan 28th 2008 2:53am by raisentheblade
zepoodle wrote:
To a new player in his 30s or 40s who has never played a Rogue or a Mage, Retribution does rock.
Or a feral druid, enhancement shaman, or really most classes. Don't get me wrong, I like ret, and I keep trying to talk myself into playing one, but Seal of Command...well...I hate it. It's even worse to depend on then windfury (cause, really...windfury does way more damage. The first time my shaman triple critted a windfury, I almost fell out of my seat seeing how much damage he did.)
I really wish they would do something to help out ret. I love the idea of the paladin who can kick butt (since it would take the place of what my idea of a priest should be...yes, I've played too much D&D), but ret just doesn't end up living up to it.
That being said, I think the only time I can recall being "Lawl Ret" was on the trade skills forum, in some post where Dilbrt was ******** out some idiot complaining that wool cloth and copper bars were a pain to find and expensive, and he was mad he didn't get skill ups from making winter boots, and then vendored them (instead of selling them on the AH for a couple gold each, like a smart person.)
So...yeah, be nice to the ret pallies, but be honest with them too, that's my motto.
zepoodle wrote:
When people make posts like "Ret rocks" they're not speaking out of stupidity, just inexperience. And most of the time they're reacting to a statement like "Ret sucks" which they've heard somewhere else.
Which is exactly my point.
I think people are confusing the ret sucks for raids topic with the ret always sucks from level 10-70. I don't raid, never have and never will (just don't have the time for it). So when I was just starting out my pally, I read here as much as I could and for a while I thought ret was the worse thing you can choose because all anyone talks about is raids.
So when some newb comes here to ask about pally's he's usually not asking about raid useage, he is probably new to the pally and is leveling. It wasn't until my post titled, "If not ret, then what??" that I finally got an answer of people saying, "oh ya, for leveling ret is great"
So when some newb comes here to ask about pally's he's usually not asking about raid useage, he is probably new to the pally and is leveling. It wasn't until my post titled, "If not ret, then what??" that I finally got an answer of people saying, "oh ya, for leveling ret is great"
Long thread...
I didn't read everything, so I'm only posting to the OP.
I agree, you see a lot of the "down with ret... ret's stupid... ect" but with leveling, Ret is probibly the best spec IMO. At least it was for me. I respec'd prot only because we could never find a solid tank. Sorry Fury warriors & Ret paladins, but unless you out-gear/level the run it's gonna be a bumpy ride. To many healers out there are damage spec'd and can't keep a group running when the tank lacks the top abilities to tank or reduce incoming damage.
Most of my levels come with a shadow priest (wife) and Ret was the best paired with her. We killed almost instantly, now... I just make sure she doesn't get hit. It's slower & not as exciting for me.
Not going to coment on Holy builds because I didn't enjoy it when I was holy spec, looks cool... sounds fun... can be powerful, but not for me. Either Ret or Prot for this toon (not an endgamer, so the guild I'm in has no requirements).
I also agree with ToJ's post, very nice & deserves a sticky! A much needed guide on these forums!
... if people think Ret's not a good idea for PVP, ask them to try Prot. That's all I'll say.
Kz
I didn't read everything, so I'm only posting to the OP.
I agree, you see a lot of the "down with ret... ret's stupid... ect" but with leveling, Ret is probibly the best spec IMO. At least it was for me. I respec'd prot only because we could never find a solid tank. Sorry Fury warriors & Ret paladins, but unless you out-gear/level the run it's gonna be a bumpy ride. To many healers out there are damage spec'd and can't keep a group running when the tank lacks the top abilities to tank or reduce incoming damage.
Most of my levels come with a shadow priest (wife) and Ret was the best paired with her. We killed almost instantly, now... I just make sure she doesn't get hit. It's slower & not as exciting for me.
Not going to coment on Holy builds because I didn't enjoy it when I was holy spec, looks cool... sounds fun... can be powerful, but not for me. Either Ret or Prot for this toon (not an endgamer, so the guild I'm in has no requirements).
I also agree with ToJ's post, very nice & deserves a sticky! A much needed guide on these forums!
... if people think Ret's not a good idea for PVP, ask them to try Prot. That's all I'll say.
Kz
CapJack of the Seven Seas wrote:
Someone asks about a Holy question, they will immediately get an answer, same thing for prot. For a retribution question, they have to wait for ToJ or Tommy or one of the other resident rets to give them a straight answer
Part of that is due to the smaller amount of people who have real experience with it. For instance, I can give some marginal replies on Holy questions, since I leveled as it from 1-60. I can give some answers on prot questions because I've leveled as it from 61-70 and done raiding. If someone asks a ret question, well, I honestly don't even check the topic because I know I won't have an answer.
bodhisattva wrote:
That being said about Prot, I love to have one in Kara/ZA.
On Gruul they fail, Mag they can do the summoners but I wouldnt have one tank Mag himself. In SSC they handle trash just fine and on a number of bosses they can be used, such as for TW, FL, Hydross and Lurker. In TK:Eye they shine on trash, and work well on A'lar and Solarion.
That being said most raid guilds can use Prot/Druid to handle all those situations without any significant hassle, whereas there are fights where a Prot Pally is a 5th wheel which you can't afford to have. So most raid guilds weigh the advantages and disadvantages and do it without. Those that do use Prot pallies and go into 25 t5 and beyond tend to only need 1 prot pally per raid, where they might have 2 warriors, 2 druids etc depending on make up and play time.
On Gruul they fail, Mag they can do the summoners but I wouldnt have one tank Mag himself. In SSC they handle trash just fine and on a number of bosses they can be used, such as for TW, FL, Hydross and Lurker. In TK:Eye they shine on trash, and work well on A'lar and Solarion.
That being said most raid guilds can use Prot/Druid to handle all those situations without any significant hassle, whereas there are fights where a Prot Pally is a 5th wheel which you can't afford to have. So most raid guilds weigh the advantages and disadvantages and do it without. Those that do use Prot pallies and go into 25 t5 and beyond tend to only need 1 prot pally per raid, where they might have 2 warriors, 2 druids etc depending on make up and play time.
I would absolutely love for you to give me an example of where a prot pally would be more of a 5th wheel than an attitional prot warrior in the raid. It's true they have difficulty building threat when not the main target of attack, but so do warriors, and we're working on T6 content.
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