Shadowstep No Daggers?Follow

first the combat section of that build is a bit wrong.
you dont want improved sinister strike. you will replace SS with hemo (since it has a lower energy cost and gives a CP). also, the improved evasion will help, although not necessesary. you can put points into filling out lightning reflexes if you want but make sure your 5/5 on DW spec.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhhVbbVZxMeohhRoxst

Combat Swords will still blow ShS out of the water.

...digital, you missed the point of combat for arenas, you don't go swords for arenas, you go maces for the stun.

Are you sure you've ever played a Rogue?

Combat Swords is the best spec in the game for PvE, is almost acceptable for Arena, and does ok in BGs.

Combat maces is far better in both Arena and BGs.

Yes, it sucks to loose all the fun goodies that Subtlety has to offer but you gain a lot of far more practical abilities in combat. i.e. 5% to hit, snare breaking sprint, longer gouge, less chance you opponent will dodge, undodgeable finishers, 15 secs of double Energy regen, and increased attack speed+hitting 2 targets at once.

Also Frostnova goes with you when you ShS, cheat death is amazing, Prep kinda blows now, and premed is decent.

I think digital's referring to how all the Combat tree cooldowns, such as Blade Flurry, AR, Evasion etc, last for a short 15 second burst. He's still not correct, but it may be what gave him the impression that Combat was a burst spec.

edit: speeling.

Edited, Jan 29th 2008 8:39am by zepoodle

God, I say my opinion and suddenly I'm objectively wrong and there's only one way for people to prefer things! You can simply say you disagree instead of being an *** and questioning if I've ever played the game. You sure you want to start the flames in such a friendly post? Things were going so nice before you had to **** in the middle of the thread.

I like having the utility of subtlety. I don't like waiting for the combat CDs for max effectiveness. I don't like the simplicity of the combat fighting method. Chill out!

Edited, Jan 29th 2008 10:02am by digitalcraft

I'm pretty sure I'm more an authority than you on MY PREFERENCE. There's no need for you to go all elitist on me for that. Again, chill out. Take some prozac, I'm not insulting your build or telling people that you're incorrect in whatever you've decided to do.

I've stated my preference and you're suddenly on the offense, jumping down my throat like there's only one absolutist way that things work. Sorry, but no.

And for the second time, attacks on knowledge are an ad hominem fallacy. I could be absolutely retarded and still say something 100% correct, so how about you stick to the argument instead of attacking the character. You'll be much more effective.

If you think that my preference is wrong and I actually prefer combat, please state why I actually prefer combat.

heeeeeeey batter batter batter sssssswwwwwwinggg batter

The title of this thread is correct.

Digital, if you're not here for a numbers game, shut the **** up about specs, for the love of God.

If rogues wanted a touchy-feely feel-good thread about specs, they'd ask for your personal opinion.

The OP asked if sub daggers works. No, it doesn't. ShS is viable in arena, but no other area of the game.

No, it's not viable to raid with.

No, it's not viable in 5 mans, but then again I can run a 5 man as 0/0/0 and still top DPS.

Daggers are not good at grinding. ShS maces/swords are, but no, not daggers.

Digitalcraft is a moron.

/end thread

I am gonna step in and just say that Digital, your views are very misleading on the Rogue class. This little debate has been done and done before with other people. The end result is always the same, someone always brings up preference and someone always ends it with facts.



This is a misleading post. And if you haven't done it, chances are you don't know about it unless you have done some extensive research.

And viable in this case does mean top of the DPS, because I have stated this before in other threads, the Rogue class does DPS, if you don't bring your best DPS, then you are failing in your role.

Props to say it in the correct way: regarding the assertion and not criticizing the character of the person(mostly).

Its stil not what 'viable' means though. It might not be 'max effect', but it is 'viable'.
"\ˈvī-ə-bəl\ :capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately"

The fact that other specs besides combat exist still indicates they are at the very least 'viable'.

I freely admit I don't know a ton about it besides my own perceptions, and to me it wasn't as useful. The amount of threat it generates alone made it hard to use in PUGs, and that's what I end up doing a lot of. If I end up in raids, I may respec if needed, who knows. My situation currently that I'm applying this to is a 66 rogue running BGs and PuG instances.

I believed I stated clearly that *to me* it did not seem to be the best alternative. I didn't like it, and in case there's confusion, I want to say again this is my own preference.

I know that a rogue's main objective is DPS, but there's plenty of other things that are nice to have: survivability, CC, mobility. Subtlety gives me these things and I enjoy them a lot. I also BG a lot, and shadowstep in BGs is wonderful. You can actually shadowstep from one of the frostwolf towers to the other without touching the ground, or even from the ground to the top level.

Subtlety makes rogue the most fun class to me, who's to deny me that? I'm not telling you that you need to play sub, don't tell me I need to play combat.


p.s. I seem to be saying the same things now, thanks for the discussion and I hope you don't feel I'm critical of the way you play. I'd prefer people stick to arguing about topics instead of arguing about people, but this is the web and some people don't know better, so oh well. I'll not respond further.

Edited, Jan 29th 2008 3:36pm by digitalcraft

So does that make me doubly FTW?

You know, since I'm actually a good rogue and I'm definitely not an idiot?

Guess it does.