SV vs BM helpFollow

First let me just say that I understand this has been covered over and over, and I know what answers I'm going to get (BM), but I honestly just want someone to explain why (I need the logistics of it, not personal opinions).

I was BM for 70 levels, and wanted to try something different, and SV spec intrigued me. I switched to it, and have tweaked it here and there (I am now 41 SV/20 MM - isnt updated yet in armory - just fine-tuned it last time I was in game). But from what I've been reading in posts, the 41 BM/20 MM does the most DPS. My question is why, and how? When I look at the BM talents, they're mostly based around how much damage your pet does, and increasing pet damage. (To be honest, I don't really know if, on damage meters, pet damage counts in your total or not.) But I would think increasing your own damage output would have a bigger impact than your pet would.

Let me just state (before I get all the "LTP noob"-ish responses) that I'm not arguing the point that BM is better for DPS. I'm sure this was number-crunched and tested many many times by people with much more game experience than myself. I just want it explained to me (in terms I can understand :P).

For further info on my toon, my guild is now running kara, but due to time issues, I've only been in twice, and only up to Moroes. Also, I know (from what I've been reading) that my AGI isn't up to par for what a SV hunter needs - I'm working on it.

Any other advice or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

What makes hunter dps right now (and what makes the wolfslayer the best BM weapon in the game) is speed. Serpents swiftness can make the autoshot fire at almost GCD with the right weapon, and you're getting 2 shots every GCD. Even if they don't hit quite as hard, that's a lot more shots then say 3 every 2 GCD's. It adds up fast.

Steady is also the most mana friendly shot, and because BM mostly just uses that, the mana use is a lot better then MM. SV is actually very good for mana due to TotH.

So in conclusion

BM -> dps through speed and somewhat pet. Mostly speed
SV -> dps through bigger hits and really high crit. probably requires more skill as I top dps on my BM hunter by taping my macro button down and going to sleep. (on tank and spanks)

SV is a very respectable spec. It can compete for dps, and has really good utility with EW. Of course this doesn't stack so more then one SV hunter is sort of superfluous because a BM hunter can give FI to anyone.

Actually MM does less dps then BM as well. so really no positives. It's not bad or anything just not as good.

Thank you all for the responses - it makes more sense now, and since I'm the only SV hunter in the guild, I'll probably stay SV for a while. Thanks again!

PS Any other comments or advice is still greatly appreciated - keep them coming!

I was BM all the way to 70 myself. Swore it was the best and I could never try anything else. Of course, I was misinformed.

I messed around with MM a while but eventually settled on survival as well, only I went 0/21/40. My first few tries at Survival included Readiness, but my current does not and I find I do not miss it.

I have also found that in 5-mans my DPS output and overall damage done has not changed compared to when I was BM. This of course might change if I were to go into a 10 or 25-man, but I have not yet done that sort of stuff. I seem to do more damage than most other hunters in these 5 man groups, regardless of their spec. Thrill of the Hunt also helps on mana efficiency, as well as MM's Efficiency.

Yea my pet is a bit weaker and less durable. My two main dps pets, cat (PvP) and raptor (PvE), have always had an identical dps rating when I check their profile and the difference between BM and SV for me is about 50 dps and maybe 1000 armor (honestly can't remember the pets' armor ratings when BM). I also don't have Imp. Mend Pet or Imp. Revive but I've made do so far and not missed those either.

I loved BM but I love SV more. It's DPS is respectable and it offers efficient crowd management, however the high critical strike % is a little dangerous but worth the risk to proc Expose Weakness. The trapping alone is superb and Wyvern Sting really can't be beat for for a quick fallback CC, though overall it works on a more narrow range of targets compared to Freezing Trap. Just remember to hit your target with Scorpid Sting after it wears off so you can then trap it if need be(the poison tic from Wyvern Sting would otherwise break the trap, but is nicely overwritten by the Scorpid).

With my spec I essentially swapped SV's 41 point talent, Readiness, for MM's 21 point talent, Scatter Shot. In order for me to only spend 41 points into SV for Readiness I would have had to skip certain things in the tree that I really wanted including Trap Mastery and the EW line in order to reach the final talent. So I skipped it and so far I think it was a great choice. Scatter Shot OWNS. Swift cooldown, works on a wide range of targets and is great for immobilizing a target you plan on trapping about two seconds later. Or running away from. Or just slowing down for any reason really.

In a way, BM is plain offense. But Survival is about running interference. And that's been way more fun.

Edited, Jan 27th 2008 3:15am by Tavarde

eu.wowarmory.com, enter your own name and search.
Tadaaaaaaa you can check your own gear out =P

Then here comes the criticism ;)

I'm assuming you are in pvp gear, but besides the skyguard cross and the ring of ghoulish delight there arent any pieces that you can have stronger pieces for pve.

1: your agility is really really low.
I have a few more epics (3 more not counting your trinket and ring) and i'm at 664 agi, 1927 AP, 25.7%crit selfbuffed.
So i have ~1.5% less crit then you but 192 more agility and 187 more AP.
and that is quite a difference.

What i would advise you to do is getting the S3 axe from arena (as you already have 2 teams) and enchanting it with +35 agi.
Run SV or PvP for new shoulders, yours have zero agility and arent top of the line altogether.
If they are also part of your pve set: dump the ring of foulish delight and the skyguard cross for preferably ravenclaw band (from sethekk halls) and bloodlust brooch from badges.
Replace your meta-gem with +12 agi/3%crt dmg, that is the only meta gem worth taking for a hunter, period.
Also in pvp because that extra 3%crtdmg makes your crits hurt that much more.
+6 stats on chest is by far the best enchant, you would lose 9 stamina for 6 int and 6 agility.
Also your gemming is strange because you havent gemmed any agility...

And last: your spec misses out on both effeciency and Thrill of the Hunt, a raiding hunter cant go without 1 of the 2 and having both is even better.

edit:
EU armor seems to be borked so i cant link my own char...
If it works for you my char's name is Æthien, there should be only 2 named like that on EU realms and both are mine ;)
(second is my tiny Belfretnubloladin)

my SV spec (0/20/41) for reference.

Edited, Jan 28th 2008 12:26pm by Aethien