currently i have 1799 AP/138 hit/just under 25% crit unbuffed in zerker stance. when raiding, i usually get a feral druid in my group and get 5% more crit from the leader of the pack buff, since we're in the group mainly to buff three rogues. that, added to my other buffs, usually puts me at 33% crit. now, i've been messing around with maxdps.com and its upgrade list by dps, and a lot of the "upgrades" are non-plate items that would cause me to lose significant amounts of crit, maybe almost 1% per piece... however, they also net more AP and (more importantly) more armor penetration. according to maxdps, if you plug in the following numbers:
mainhand dps and speed: 91.1/2.7
offhand dps and speed: 91/1.5
buffed AP = 2800
armor penetration = 1000 (150 from eternium rage shackles and 849 from executioner, which i know isn't on all the time)
boss armor = 3500
hit = 138
haste = 33
crit (buffed) = 33%
armor penetration is the clear winner for dps increases. i'm posting at work so i can't work out the exact increases in overall dps, so i'll get back to that when i get home.
anyway, if i can maintain a raid-buffed crit% of ~30%, i should be able to drop some crit for more ArP, AP, and overall DPS, while still keeping flurry up all the time, right?
(quick gear comparison at work)
dory's embrace vs. royal cloak of arathi kings = 9 dps/112 ArP/-6 AP/20 crit/112 ArP
vestments of hibernation vs. chestguard of exile = 10 dps/150 ArP/4 AP/45 agi
chain of unleashed rage vs. girdle of treachery = 13 dps/154 ArP/6 AP/-18 agi
bloodthirster's wargreaves vs. vanquisher's legplates = 7 dps/20 AP/-23 crit
nyn'jah's tabi boots vs. vortex walking boots = 8 dps/4 AP/-19 crit/29 agi
bloodlust brooch vs. bladefist's breadth = 11 dps/72 AP/-26 crit
so...
net AP = 100 = 30 dps (if every 20 AP ~6dps)
net ArP = 416 = 28 dps (if every 100 ArP ~7dps)
crit rating = -68 crit rating (3% crit) = -28 dps (if every 10 crit rating ~5dps)
agi = 56 = +1.7% crit = 37 crit rating ~20 dps (if every 10 crit rating ~5dps)
net dps from my calculations (everything rounded up or down to closest whole number)= +50 dps. the total dps added together from maxdps' calculations based on gear comparisons is +58 dps from switching to all the items on the left side of the list from the items i have now on the right side of the list. with raid buffs i would still be around 30% crit. of course, maxdps lists that my maximum possible dps with my current raid-buffed stats is 936.4 dps, and at best i have achieved 650 dps (VR kill).
any thoughts/analysis would be appreciated. this is all badge gear as i don't get to raid on a regular basis, and in a handful of trips to kara and one trip to gruul's and void reaver i have not been lucky enough to get any tier gear to drop for me.
Edited, Jan 24th 2008 7:03pm by fromanthebarbarian
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OK to drop crit for AP and ArP for more dps?Follow
long answer
yes, technically 25% crit chance means that flurry will always be up. However, this isn't true. Since every attack you make is independent of the previous, you won't actually see the exact crit chance as you should be observing. It WILL be close, but that close can be - 15 hits go normal, 5 hits crit.
That's still a 25% chance crit rate, but as you can obviously note, it doesn't mean you'll have flurry up all the time.
Add in : the 12 agi / 3% bonus from crits meta gem
trinkets that proc on crits
impale bonus from crits
and you'll see that just having 25% crit alone is not enough.
if anything, drop your hit to ~100-120 for that extra AP [assuming you'll still have precision]
Also, don't use procs when figuring out what you're running raid buffed.
max dps figures out your dps based on your CURRENT STATS
if you plug in
everything you noted (but using 150 AP rather than 1000)
and change your crit to 30%, but give you 100 more AP (fairly realistic, although honestly, you probably won't see that much of a gain)
- 872 dps (AVERAGE)
you get a bit less DPS than if you are running 2800 AP and 33% crit.
- 877 dps (AVERAGE)
short answer
no
edited to elaborate.
Edited, Jan 24th 2008 6:05pm by russki
Edited, Jan 24th 2008 6:05pm by russki
yes, technically 25% crit chance means that flurry will always be up. However, this isn't true. Since every attack you make is independent of the previous, you won't actually see the exact crit chance as you should be observing. It WILL be close, but that close can be - 15 hits go normal, 5 hits crit.
That's still a 25% chance crit rate, but as you can obviously note, it doesn't mean you'll have flurry up all the time.
Add in : the 12 agi / 3% bonus from crits meta gem
trinkets that proc on crits
impale bonus from crits
and you'll see that just having 25% crit alone is not enough.
if anything, drop your hit to ~100-120 for that extra AP [assuming you'll still have precision]
Also, don't use procs when figuring out what you're running raid buffed.
max dps figures out your dps based on your CURRENT STATS
if you plug in
everything you noted (but using 150 AP rather than 1000)
and change your crit to 30%, but give you 100 more AP (fairly realistic, although honestly, you probably won't see that much of a gain)
- 872 dps (AVERAGE)
you get a bit less DPS than if you are running 2800 AP and 33% crit.
- 877 dps (AVERAGE)
short answer
no
edited to elaborate.
Edited, Jan 24th 2008 6:05pm by russki
Edited, Jan 24th 2008 6:05pm by russki
Calculating the extra dps from crit rating is hard as a fury warrior as Crit = Flurry = More DPS.
33% crit chance is where you want it to be, as that should mean that flurry is constantly up, which gives you tons more DPS
33% crit chance is where you want it to be, as that should mean that flurry is constantly up, which gives you tons more DPS
RuinatorVek the Eccentric wrote:
Calculating the extra dps from crit rating is hard as a fury warrior as Crit = Flurry = More DPS.
33% crit chance is where you want it to be, as that should mean that flurry is constantly up, which gives you tons more DPS
33% crit chance is where you want it to be, as that should mean that flurry is constantly up, which gives you tons more DPS
And if you flip a coin twice, it always comes up as heads once and tails once.
The topic title is kind of funny - yes, doing more DPS means that you could drop individual stats to deal more DPS. As to the specifics, yes. 30% raid buffed is low for Flurry uptime but stacking ArPen on top of it is extremely good.
RPZip wrote:
RuinatorVek the Eccentric wrote:
Calculating the extra dps from crit rating is hard as a fury warrior as Crit = Flurry = More DPS.
33% crit chance is where you want it to be, as that should mean that flurry is constantly up, which gives you tons more DPS
33% crit chance is where you want it to be, as that should mean that flurry is constantly up, which gives you tons more DPS
And if you flip a coin twice, it always comes up as heads once and tails once.
The topic title is kind of funny - yes, doing more DPS means that you could drop individual stats to deal more DPS. As to the specifics, yes. 30% raid buffed is low for Flurry uptime but stacking ArPen on top of it is extremely good.
Damn you and your wealth of Warrior DPS raid knowledge Zip!
You'll rue the day you crossed me! Now I'm gonna go cry like a sissy!
You guys stop wasting RP's time.
He's fighting with Nooble in the rogue forums and it's enthralling to watch.
He's fighting with Nooble in the rogue forums and it's enthralling to watch.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
You guys stop wasting RP's time.
He's fighting with Nooble in the rogue forums and it's enthralling to watch.
He's fighting with Nooble in the rogue forums and it's enthralling to watch.
They're not so much fighting, as Nooble is having his backside handed to him.
ArP is very tasty stuff. But, I think AP is definitely more important. I prioritize gear on;
Str (AP) > ArP > Crit > Expertise > Hit
That is of course after your prescribed unbuffed, non-zerker stanced; 25+% crit and 9% hit.
You'll want crit, and don't be shy about how much. Tip toeing around for AP at the expense of several %'s of crit...
I'll add in the nice thing about ArP and Expertise, it affects ALL of your attacks not just your white damage. So your WW's and BT's hit more often and for more.
Str (AP) > ArP > Crit > Expertise > Hit
That is of course after your prescribed unbuffed, non-zerker stanced; 25+% crit and 9% hit.
You'll want crit, and don't be shy about how much. Tip toeing around for AP at the expense of several %'s of crit...
I'll add in the nice thing about ArP and Expertise, it affects ALL of your attacks not just your white damage. So your WW's and BT's hit more often and for more.
based on this discussion, i gather that the following upgrades would be beneficial:
dory's embrace
vestments of hibernation
chain of unleashed rage
bloodlust brooch
with this combination, i would gain ~400 ArP and lose very little crit ( <.5% crit). 43 dps at the expense of little to no crit, from the gain of 400 ArP and 76 AP.
devious - according to maxdps, ArP contributes more dps than AP at a raid-buffed 2800 AP, though they both are the highest contributors to dps at that level. dps from haste, crit and hit fall considerably farther behind.
Edited, Jan 25th 2008 7:56am by fromanthebarbarian
dory's embrace
vestments of hibernation
chain of unleashed rage
bloodlust brooch
with this combination, i would gain ~400 ArP and lose very little crit ( <.5% crit). 43 dps at the expense of little to no crit, from the gain of 400 ArP and 76 AP.
devious - according to maxdps, ArP contributes more dps than AP at a raid-buffed 2800 AP, though they both are the highest contributors to dps at that level. dps from haste, crit and hit fall considerably farther behind.
Edited, Jan 25th 2008 7:56am by fromanthebarbarian
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