To Jenova:
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ovel, no offence but you're a c unt, me and loki are definately equals, but oaken is far from it. also why horde have better racials? 'cos blizzard employees play horde and they don't want to fix their OP races.
I'm not going to resort to name-calling, because it's only used by immature people. More than that, you simply have your head in your *** - at least loki gives some semblance of reasoning. Also, please
read before posting - I already stated why horde racials are better than alliance. Thank you Mr (?) Parrot.
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also, "your latest AV scores"... you do know that AV is basially just 1 big instance where people don't pvp right? it's there to farm honor and leech. it means nothing about pvp, heck even doing the objective is done through effectively pve'ing. you don't pvp, you just get near each flag. cap it and then melee anyone who tries to take it back till they give up / your team has rushed the end boss of either side.
Actually, my WSG and EotS scores are better (for kills:deaths), although I've recently been playing AV for the tokens (required for gear). And when I do post my scores, please note that I sacrifice myself for team objectives - without ruining my score. As for AV as a whole, I guess you've never played in which you had a competent defense.
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once you get a few arena teams and a decent rating then maybe you'll know what pvp is.
Pretty much everyone in my guild who arena has asked me to be on their team - and I've also gotten offers from the top alliance guild on the server (or used to be - AI might be? blah, idk) Karma. Simply put, I'm not going to attach my name to a team where I can beat every player in it in solo pvp - you learn less than playing against people who destroy you.
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loki never said anything about spec types. he racials are effectively a '2nd trinket'.
Again, read before posting, tyvm. I was making an allusion to previous posts of his in separate threads in relation to "equity" and "play-style" between build types.
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next, the idea of "if A dies first, obviously B dies last" is only true in statement as it implies that damage is more important, in reality skill and surviability are the main parts
It doesn't imply anything about anything - only that the person who created the phrase needs to retake a high-school english class. If player B has more survivability, A will die first; if B's offense outweighs A's defense, A will die first.
You still haven't confronted my point - even if a rogue were to wait for perception to end, it would give your team that much more time to respawn. I fail to see how this diminishes survivability.
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yes you can make do without escape artist. but you're an idiot or a role player (a.k.a a carebear) to purposely gimp yourself in both pvp AND pve by choosing an inferior race
1. Do your research - I'm on a global pvp server.
2. It fits my play-style; I'm not gimping myself in the least. You're basically saying something similar to "Destro is the only way to pvp because demo and affliction both suck for burst damage".
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finally, about your edit. for you to stop people from getting to your mates / flags you first need to beable to SEE them heading to it AND for them to be to stupid to NOT notice you've got perception up.
I'm sorry that I'm not a lazy sob who sits on her *** and waits for a gimp - constant movement and constant view changes (to see an inc asap) is the way to go, imo. If a stealthed player notices perception or not, it doesn't make a difference - either you will catch them unawares (or with additional distance in-between the two of you) or they will "wait" - and give you additional time for reinforcements. 2v1 is a great form of survivability imo.
I'm not replying to anything you post until you confront my issues - instead of repeating your unsupported point of view. Seriously - take your head out of your *** and make a reasoned argument. You get 1/10 pts for the FF7 reference, but you still /fail.
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To Loki:
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if you don't PvP regularly, then your opinion is really void.
I do pvp regularly, I simply haven't been playing the same amount of time as you have, so my overall kills are lower. Honestly, PvP and raids are the only thing interesting in WoW - so I've devoted myself to figuring out what works. Whether you think my opinion matters or not doesn't really matter to me - I've gotten everything I need to learn from all of you a while ago (although if you have any info on warrior or priest pvp, I'd love to hear it - I'm a novice at those classes).
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You don't know anything about pillar humping and using LoS. You've never lost a druid from sight and had him travel form away to another pillar, run behind and drink before dropping Shadowmeld
.
I've never had LoS problems because I've never given an enemy time to
go anywhere. Also, with your dots ticking and drain-life going, how can you a) "lose sight" of the druid, b) be at a hp disadvantage from being rooted, and c) gimp yourself by not making use of your demon?
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With your detection range only extended to 15 or so yards, they can easily pop sprint and get to you in the time it takes you to tab target and attack and that's if they're approaching from the front like a complete jackass.
iHoT is an aoe fear that doesn't require targeting - or am I ******** everyone by saying so? Also, assuming that they sprint in to attack, you've just wasted one of their most important cds - kiting should be that much easier. Now assume they "immediately" react to the iHoT and either trinket, WoTF, or CoS - you now have the time to target them, and get off a d/c - thus wasting another one of their cds (CoS the exception), and have a chance to cast normal fear (thus wasting their third cd - but giving you maximum distance). Once it gets to this point, you've won, unless you're an idiot. Now, assuming CoS is popped instead, you're in "trouble"; this is the time to pop a bubble and wait for CoS to end. If you're decently geared, you should easily be able to stay alive (albeit with only a few thousand hp) - hs, then d/c - fear - etc to a win. How do I know this works? Because at least 1/5 of rogues (the good ones at least) - do sprint in when they see me using perception.
Oh, and for EotS - you can tell if there is a cloaked player in three circumstances (coming across a bridge to a tower). The first is to see them cloak at their end of the bridge (stupid player), the second is to see a non-stealthed player wait for "reinforcements" aka the stealthed player before proceeding, and finally - when there is absolutely *no* pressure on the tower at all, and you're the only one guarding it.
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Rooting effects and slowing effects will make or break fights in both arena and bgs.
It depends on play-style.
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Whether it's not losing 1/2 a step while you're kiting a rogue because you can shrug off deadly throw or getting the @#%^ away from that warrior who just hamstrung you by dropping CoEx and then popping your racial,
You still lose the time it takes you to pop your racial - which is at
least a half second, or 3-4 yards.
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being able to maintain maneuverability will always trump the possibility to catch a bad player off guard.
Are you making points for me? You're supposing everything on the other player being stupid enough to let you leave their melee range before they can re-incapacitate you. Perception creates a virtual bubble - either the enemy won't attack for the duration, or it will give you 15 yards distance (much better than a wasted gcd and being stuck within 5 yards - melee range).
[quote]Escape Artist works on everyone, every time.[/quote]
Yes, but how effective is it in taking you out of melee range before a well-played enemy can re-incapacitate you?
[quote] Perception works against rogues, [/quote]
Quoted for lack of truth.
Any stealthed players.
[quote]only if they're too dumb to see the buff, only if they're too dumb to sprint, only if they're too dumb to approach from behind, and all of that, only if you saw them coming before they dropped into stealth.[/quote]
To repeat myself (because it apparently isn't sinking in): if they see the buff or not is immaterial - it will either give you time to respawn/reinforce, focus on other attackers (2v1 situation), or give you the drop on them without sacrificing initial distance. If they approach from behind, iHoT handles it unless they pop CoS before hand - in which case you can easily whether their attack, then trink + d/c + fear when CoS ends ftw. If you pay attention, you can easily tell when stealthed players are in the area; if you don't - and they try to vanish for a second attack, you can tract them in stealthed form (instead of sitting down to eat/drink).
[quote]Survival is key to doing anything. ... Yes, 1 on 1, if you kill the other guy, you're the last to die, but for any PvP that's going to matter there are a lot more people in the game than just you and 1 other.[/quote]
As I said for Jenova - the ability to see and a avoid a rogue before they are in attack range is a
great form of survival; even if they wait for it to end before attacking - that gives your team a chance for respawns (this increases overall survivability, no?).
If you are fighting two versus two - the ability to kill the other player first gives you a chance to 2v1 an opposing team. At the very least, it gives you an opportunity for a 1v1 (your teammate vs the remaining enemy) - but gives your team the additional time it takes for the enemy to refocus on you for a quick-kill (those 2-3 seconds are enormous).
[quote]Oh, and I call bullsh*t on "I PvP in my raid gear w/ people in S3." You may defend farm for them or something, but try going with serious PvPers into a serious PvP fight and you'll be paper thin and absolutely worthless. When you can be 3 shot, there is a problem.[/quote]
Actually, I get a lot of this. That's why I accept duels from anyone on-server. My one ****** hang-up is that after they lose (as they have always done so thus far - except one bm hunter from karma with +95 shadow resist on his kitty*), they must link their armory into trade chat, and say (script) "name: Ovelia beat me while I am in (link)(link)(link) and she doesn't have any pvp gear, 3*/3 times". Well, I changed it - in the past, it would be "...I'm in full(etc) gladiator/s1/s2/s3 gear...", but I thought it would be easier just to link it with /2. Yeah, honestly, tks doesn't mean anything - pretty much everyone I've pvp'd has between 8-26k tks (usually on the mid-high end: 18+).
As for being three-shot, yes - that is a problem. The only way to get around it is to keep the enemy constantly off balance, so they don't have the time to three-shot you. A lot of people either *****, qq about OPed locks, or ask me to join their arena team after I beat them, meh. If you pay for my transfer, I'll gladly duel you - if you win, I'll announce to everyone here the outcome, as well as reimburse your costs; if I win, you'll have to do the same. Then again, I doubt you care enough to bother - but I
will make the offer.
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That's all, I'm not posting anything here until you people make reasoned arguments, or counters to what I've brought up. I don't especially care if you think I'm bsing you or not - I know it works well for me *shrugs*. And someone ^ is right when they said I'm making inflammatory statements on purpose - it's fun to challenge the "experienced" geezers. To reiterate, I am not saying EA isn't useful, or that perception is
better.
I'm simply saying that they are equitable depending on play-style.
That and Jenova needs to do some research and take his head out of his ***. Yeah, I said it - I know I'm an immature little ***** :/