RPZip wrote:
Fair enough about Presence. I'm not used to it versus DPS time since they were combined in the old WWS (not hosted on wowwebstats.com).
But so what? You still don't have a decent WWS where neither of you die and it's not a finicky melee DPS fight (resist gear, not in melee, whatever).
You just can't admit when you're wrong, can you? Naj'entus is a fine fight for melee DPS. It's exactly the same from start to finish, with minimal breaks on damage. He barely outdamaged me with over a minute of extra DPS time. How can you possibly decide that is inconclusive? Yes, I died, but why do you have to survive the whole fight for how you performed to be an accurate representation? If I'd died 2 minutes in, then yeah, I'd agree. But after 8 minutes, that's
plenty of time for DPS to normalize, and it can't possibly be an issue of lucky crits.
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It stops recording 'combat time' when you're running around. It just shows you demolishing person X, then wait, then demolishing person Y.
That's an oversimplification. It takes a certain amount of time without you showing up in the combat log before it determines you are not in combat any more. Hitting a person, having your deadly poison tick while you run to the next one, and repeat until sheep keeps you in combat for the full duration as far as WWS is concerned.
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And it takes you twelve seconds to burn through Shock Barrier? Ouch. Ever since they dropped the HP to 80,000 we've done it in five seconds or less, which is nearly enough to interrupt the first Pyroblast. Twelve seconds would entail the tank eating two, which has to get old. I mean... if the overall DPS is that bad then sure, I can see the DPS going down.
We run Kael with 5-8 apps usually, most often in kara gear. So yeah, the DPS is pretty bad. People who are too dense to stop what they're doing and DPS the shield down, or people dying to Thaladrad in P3, and in some cases even Capernian in P1 on rare occasions. Kael isn't done with the A team, so to speak.
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Fake DPS: What WWS Reports
Actual DPS: What SWS Reports
They're not the same thing. Your SWS DPS in P1 is going to be awful, since it records in combat time as part of the DPS time measurement. You only deal damage to half of the mobs in P1. The rest of the time you go play in the corner.
You're just dismissing my point entirely. SWS isn't the issue here. We're looking at the DPS from WWS, and your DPS in WWS is going to be highest right around the time Elaii died. Your logic for the DPS not being valid is because I supposedly had some uber advantage in P4/5, which is simply not the case, and is what I'm debating.
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And maybe your guild pops all cooldowns in P3, but not every guild does.
And what other guilds do are very important when I'm talking about a specific fight with my guild. Right.
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Nevertheless, you're still dealing with all the baggage from P1 (and P2, in your case) in terms of DPS contributions.
Exactly. In this case, the baggage is greatly increased DPS from Blade Flurry, which gradually decreases over the course of the fight. You seem to be arguing with SWS logic against WWS data. Well yeah, if you only factor DPS as how long the fight lasted, then yes, you'd be right and DPS will increase over the fight. The problem is we aren't talking about results from SWS. We're talking about WWS. In this WWS log, Elaii died just as his DPS peaked. My DPS as represented in this log decreased from the time he died because of the nature of the fight.
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Of course you can say that. Or something similar to that. You're trying to compare yourself to him; it's on you to demonstrate that claim's validity, not the rest of us to take you at his word. You're trying to demonstrate why you're better, but failing horribly.
And yet another example of glossing over a point. Yes, I heard you the first time when you said this was not a valid comparison, but I've yet to see a valid argument as to
why. You can say it over and over again, but until you actually give a legitimate reason why, it means nothing. To restate my point so you don't have to go digging through the past posts:
If we are both working at the same disadvantage, a comparison is valid. Fights don't have to be perfect in order to draw a conclusion. I'm not trying to say this is a representation of his DPS on every fight, as he certainly does much more damage on other fights. The point is that working under the same conditions, when both of us survived the whole fight, he was completely and utterly destroyed in DPS output. To go back to the runner analogy, would you draw a conclusion if one runner finished in two hours, and the other took four? Of course you would, it's such a huge difference that there is no choice to accept anything but one runner was bested by the other.
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If you want a WWS to be valid comparison, "neither person died" is probably a good place to start sifting through to separate good ones to use versus bad ones.
How about "neither person died within the first couple minutes"? A person dying doesn't invalidate the data if there has been plenty of time for random quirks like lucky crits to be worked out. It's the law of averages, you just have to determine when it becomes valid. I think 8 minutes into the fight is perfectly reasonable (the Naj'entus log). My death didn't magically increase my DPS, nor did it decrease Elaii's. If you still feel that this log is invalid, please explain how my death invalidates the log, why only beating me by 13k damage with 69 seconds of extra DPS time doesn't matter, and why being over 50k damage ahead of Elaii at the time of my death doesn't matter.
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So is "the fight isn't kind of odd with melee DPS".
If I were looking for a log to say that X Rogue doesn't do much damage, then yes, you would be 100% correct. But comparing one rogue to another doesn't require perfect conditions. Like I said, we have to do our job no matter what fight it is. Adverse conditions don't erase the fact that another rogue under identical conditions outperformed by some huge margin. I'm not nitpicking over 10 DPS here, but 100-250. It's not a huge stretch to draw a conclusion from the data I've presented. You just continually dismiss my arguments and restate your own, as if I've said nothing.
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http://wowwebstats.com/qc6sz13dsvqpe?s=8981-9255&m - Rage Winterchill
Dying right after you blow cooldowns, get bloodlust, etc has been known to give you much higher than normal DPS...
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http://wowwebstats.com/qc6sz13dsvqpe?m&s=14674-15131 - Naj'entus
just as both people in question dying before even the halfway point of an attempt that might have gotten the boss to 30% gives extremely skewed numbers. When one of the people in question has an abysmal 77% DPS time, it's even less valid.
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http://wowwebstats.com/qc6sz13dsvqpe?m&s=13084-13316 - Also Naj'entus
That's what happens on a fight that ends at 65% when one Rogue blows his cooldowns and the other doesn't.
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http://wowwebstats.com/u5zxae56zhu1c?s=11371-12314 - Supremus
Do you really want me to address this? I mean, my death 60 seconds into the fight couldn't have possibly skewed the data by a huge amount.
This is getting pitiful. You're grasping at straws. How about actually addressing my points instead of restating yours and linking horribly unrepresentative logs.
[quote]Man, I guess he's just so much better than you. Clearly all of
those WWS's are valid on my say-so, even though they're awful fights.[/quote]
Yeah, you're right. I mean, a fight where I died 60 seconds in, or when I didn't use cooldowns is exactly the same as a full kill where both of us were alive either the whole time or long enough to get a representative DPS. You've yet to explain properly why mine were awful fights. You argue unrelated points (like how SWS would say DPS is lower on Kael, when we're talking about WWS data) and constantly ignore my points while restating your own.
Edited to fix tags
Edited, Jan 27th 2008 3:54pm by Nooblestick