As I run more and more instances I am not always in the best DPS/CC party setups so I am looking to see how I can effectively achieve aggro containment without disruption of the CC. Now I pull two different ways, the first by mana tap then tossing Avenger’s Shield and the second by Avenger’s Shield at the start. But as you know this tactic can play havoc towards CC since you don’t know what 3 targets it will hit in a +4 group pull. Here is what I am seeing per CC class.
Mage
-No issues here. I will have the mage immediately sheep after pull so I am achieve max range and better ability to utilize consecration. Only issue I might run into from time-to-time is if the mage is late on the sheep or doesn’t resheep.
Hunter
-Nightmare. Once I pull and if Avengers Shield hits their target he/she has almost impossible time getting the target off of me. I am thinking he could use distractive shot right after the pull but have been unable to neither confirm this nor do I want to advise another class till I know.
Warlock
-Ineffective. Not saying it isn’t possible for charm to work on pulls but I haven’t come across a lock yet that will get their target charmed fast enough before it gets into my initial consecration kill zone.
Rogue
-Semi issue free. I will usually have the Rogue sap and I will mana tap a mob before using Avenger’s Shield at a safer distance.
So in the end I usually just tank +3 mobs at once but I am wondering what types of tricks do you guys use that makes your CC work best for the party when it is a must to use?
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Maximizing CC?Follow
In normals nowadays, I do it this way:
CC = Constant Consecration. Traps / Sheeps only on the 7th+ mob on a pull, and aside from Blackheart's room, there aren't many pulls that large. On this amount of mobs, AS' path is fully predictable.
When working with a hunter in a situation where AS isn't entirely predictable, the hunter coordinates with me, concussive shot on his trapped target, I wait a second and then pick the rest when they are well ahead of the dazed trap target, with AS and consecration.
Sap? I never bother.
CC = Constant Consecration. Traps / Sheeps only on the 7th+ mob on a pull, and aside from Blackheart's room, there aren't many pulls that large. On this amount of mobs, AS' path is fully predictable.
When working with a hunter in a situation where AS isn't entirely predictable, the hunter coordinates with me, concussive shot on his trapped target, I wait a second and then pick the rest when they are well ahead of the dazed trap target, with AS and consecration.
Sap? I never bother.
42 posts
Not sure what to tell ya wales..
Im a druid tank, but i play my bros prot pally from time to time...
Not really a fan off CC, even in heroics and what not...
Best thing i can say.. Is start finding the good dps.
I usually roll around with a enhanment shammy and a rogue.. And pick up any 3rd dps, you burn down mobs so fast that the dps is the CC.
The only CC i really consider CC is sheep, and the ony time i really try to have them use it is when a mob MC's or fears.. Or does somehing that will make the mobs de-agro me.
CC is over rated... <3 the DPS
Im a druid tank, but i play my bros prot pally from time to time...
Not really a fan off CC, even in heroics and what not...
Best thing i can say.. Is start finding the good dps.
I usually roll around with a enhanment shammy and a rogue.. And pick up any 3rd dps, you burn down mobs so fast that the dps is the CC.
The only CC i really consider CC is sheep, and the ony time i really try to have them use it is when a mob MC's or fears.. Or does somehing that will make the mobs de-agro me.
CC is over rated... <3 the DPS
Well the ability to take many mobs at once is really dependent on your gear. I see you are uncrittable so that's good. Your armor is pretty good, but you need to get those avoidance stats up.
As for hunters, if he's going to be trapping, then go ahead and throw might on him instead of salv. Hunters have a good amount of aggro dropping techniques by themselves, so if they are good, they should be able to manage their aggro fine.
I was looking at your talents and you might want to shift some points around. I'd recommend a build like this.
It takes the points out of precision and stoicism and puts them in Imp. One-Handed Spec. Which you really need to have if you are going to be tanking.
Edit: Also, get rid of those spell damage gems in favor of Sta gem. Your spell damage is more than fine for your level of progression, but you really need to get your HPs up.
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 7:32am by CapJack
As for hunters, if he's going to be trapping, then go ahead and throw might on him instead of salv. Hunters have a good amount of aggro dropping techniques by themselves, so if they are good, they should be able to manage their aggro fine.
I was looking at your talents and you might want to shift some points around. I'd recommend a build like this.
It takes the points out of precision and stoicism and puts them in Imp. One-Handed Spec. Which you really need to have if you are going to be tanking.
Edit: Also, get rid of those spell damage gems in favor of Sta gem. Your spell damage is more than fine for your level of progression, but you really need to get your HPs up.
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 7:32am by CapJack
See my mentality comes from almost 3 years of where some form of CC was always used in an instance. As I progress I get more confident in not using CC but like you pointed out it then comes down to DPS. I am a fan of Mage CC (former Mage) and use sap only when I have no way to get a caster to come to me to where a pat could jeopardize a pull. I did SL the other night for the first time as a tank and the room you clear before the second boss allowed me to gain more practice in handling 5 mobs at once with no CC. So although in most cases I might not use CC I just don’t want to become oblivious in how to handle pulls when CC is a must.
CapJack wrote:
I was looking at your talents and you might want to shift some points around. I'd recommend a build like this.
I will take a look at this a little more when I get home. I use to have 5 points in 1H then someone suggested to me it wasn't needed. If that’s not the case then off to trainer I go to respec. Thanks for the insight.
Wales wrote:
Hunter
-Nightmare. Once I pull and if Avengers Shield hits their target he/she has almost impossible time getting the target off of me. I am thinking he could use distractive shot right after the pull but have been unable to neither confirm this nor do I want to advise another class till I know.
-Nightmare. Once I pull and if Avengers Shield hits their target he/she has almost impossible time getting the target off of me. I am thinking he could use distractive shot right after the pull but have been unable to neither confirm this nor do I want to advise another class till I know.
Yeah this happens to me quite a lot too (escpecially that one time I accidentally gave the hunter salvation. We had a good laugh at him not being able to trap a thing. THen we had a good laugh at me). Make sure he's got might. Usually what I do is one of 2 things. I either half expect that that mob isn't coming off me and just deal with it or I have the hunter pull their mob, wait til it gets in the trap and taunt the rest off of him and consecrate. Either works fine for me.
Quote:
Warlock
-Ineffective. Not saying it isn’t possible for charm to work on pulls but I haven’t come across a lock yet that will get their target charmed fast enough before it gets into my initial consecration kill zone.
-Ineffective. Not saying it isn’t possible for charm to work on pulls but I haven’t come across a lock yet that will get their target charmed fast enough before it gets into my initial consecration kill zone.
A good warlock is nice to have sometimes. if you should ever run across one, I try to (best I can) hit their seduce target with my shield to slow it down and to try to ensure that if seduce breaks it's coming after me and not one-shotting the succy or going after the lock.
As far as getting into the consecrate zone. You have legs, use them. Back up.
Quote:
Rogue
-Semi issue free. I will usually have the Rogue sap and I will mana tap a mob before using Avenger’s Shield at a safer distance.
-Semi issue free. I will usually have the Rogue sap and I will mana tap a mob before using Avenger’s Shield at a safer distance.
I rarely use sap because it irritates the crap out of me. Partly because of the shield thing but also because it seems like they dink around so long before they actually get up there to sap (no they're not picking pockets, they're just standing there looking at mobs that are standing still) that I lose patience and just pull.
But frankly, is there any worse that this particular room in any 5-men? I mean my gear is worse than yours, and I manage without proper CC discipline :)
The only thing I do is mark the DPS target with skull. In sequence - I remark skull on the next mob to kill once the previous one is about dead, so the kill order is skull skull skull ;)
I once had a smart hunter who would trap casters I didn't catch by running up to them and placing the trap under their feet, but that was when I was sitting at 430 defense (475 nowadays).
The only thing I do is mark the DPS target with skull. In sequence - I remark skull on the next mob to kill once the previous one is about dead, so the kill order is skull skull skull ;)
I once had a smart hunter who would trap casters I didn't catch by running up to them and placing the trap under their feet, but that was when I was sitting at 430 defense (475 nowadays).
Er, nevermind. it's early dammit!
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 10:41am by Celcio
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 10:41am by Celcio
42 posts
I get what your saying Wales..
From what ive seen from messing around with the pally is, is that it will hit the nearest mob to it, and then so on...
What im trying to say is, CC to the left side "if" possible, and shoot from the right.. Or vise-versa.
Or just get used to those pulls where mana-tap is useless, and just sight pull.. Or drop a seal on ones head and move back a bit?
From what ive seen from messing around with the pally is, is that it will hit the nearest mob to it, and then so on...
What im trying to say is, CC to the left side "if" possible, and shoot from the right.. Or vise-versa.
Or just get used to those pulls where mana-tap is useless, and just sight pull.. Or drop a seal on ones head and move back a bit?
42 posts
Sorry man.. Forgot to add.
Or just get used to having CC pulling? Bit different but could work..
Let the CC do what it does and just have consecration up so that when the rest come barreling in for the sheep sheep and succy pulls they end up on you?
No pro at pally tanking, but like i said.. ran a few instances as a prot pally, good fun.
Or just get used to having CC pulling? Bit different but could work..
Let the CC do what it does and just have consecration up so that when the rest come barreling in for the sheep sheep and succy pulls they end up on you?
No pro at pally tanking, but like i said.. ran a few instances as a prot pally, good fun.
If the warlock was good he'd spam searing pain until he got aggro from you THEN seduce. That way when seduce breaks it goes for the warlock, not the healer or succy. Succies are extremely squishy and frequently get 2-shot. By pulling aggro, it doesn't matter if it gets pulled into you consecration at first, you pull it out.
Wales wrote:
CapJack wrote:
I was looking at your talents and you might want to shift some points around. I'd recommend a build like this.
I will take a look at this a little more when I get home. I use to have 5 points in 1H then someone suggested to me it wasn't needed. If that’s not the case then off to trainer I go to respec. Thanks for the insight.
He speaks truth. +5% threat is amazing, you will always need it.
In terms of 1H Weapon Spec... the pitfall that I keep hearing from newer pallies is "but you said I won't be getting my threat from autoattack!" -- Not noticing that it increases ALL damage done while you have a 1H weapon equipped, not just the damage done by that weapon.
Since I'm feeling extremely lazy and don't want to have to find the various quotes about cc, let me just add that I totally agree with those people that said cc isn't really necessary as a prot pally. The only time I use any cc is if I have a mage, then like the OP says, I just have them sheep after I pull and the sheep is usually a caster/healer that always causes me grief as a tank. Other than that I just tell my dps guys to let me hit consecrate then go to town and watch for the random runner.
Other than that the more mobs I can handle at 1 time, the easier it is to hold aggro.
Other than that the more mobs I can handle at 1 time, the easier it is to hold aggro.
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