Howdy. Yes, I read the stickies. Repeatedly. In depthly. I love them and bought a five button mouse because of one of them, programmable.
My rogue is coming along nicely, just about to hit the Outlands and it should be a straight shot from there to 70. I'm also on a PVP server, Blackrock, which factors into my concern.
I was talking to the Guild the other day and they said that, in order to successfully raid, I might want to reconsider my spec. Currently I am sitting at 4/0/43, deep subtlety obviously. Its basically a big PVP spec and while it WORKS in PVE (obviously since I leveled with it) my concern is it might not be the greatest at end game (when it'd be something like 16/0/43, I'm tired so that may be off. I know its /43, everything else is in assassination).
I asked what spec I should be leaning towards and was told, basically "we have no clue, no one plays a rogue in raids right now". So I turn to you, Allahkarogues.
Should I respec for Raiding, aka Kara, Gruul's Lair, ZA, etc? I was thinking perhaps a 0/31/30 build, AR/Prep Swords (since stunning really isn't a factor in raiding is it?). I know that's a good PVP build (and since I'm on a PVP server that is nice) but is it also a good raiding build? Or is my assassination/shadowstep build viable in Raiding?
I want a build that's effective, basically. Right now I my profile is here:
Gwarmaw@Blackrock
The end game build I am currently leaning towards, given my love of Shadowstep, is this:
Shadowstep Build
The other builds I have been considering are the following:
AR/Prep Swords
And finally, I was toying with this build as well:
Assassination, Subtle Like!
The problem I see with that last build (and my first one) is that while it may be a BLAST in PVP, and effective, would it be at all effective in PVE Raids?
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My mouse has seven buttons.
/flex
/flex
...
Or I could read everything on the front page, look at Nooble's profile, modify it, and go with this.
My fear is that without Master of Deception and Camo I won't be as effective in PVP.
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 5:19am by vyodar
Or I could read everything on the front page, look at Nooble's profile, modify it, and go with this.
My fear is that without Master of Deception and Camo I won't be as effective in PVP.
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 5:19am by vyodar
If you raid as anything but Combat you are gimping your raid and doing a disservice to the 9/24 other people with you.
The best raiding builds are usually 19/42 or something like it with minor modifications according to taste.
If you are worried about doing well in PvP just respec for PvP, then back for raiding. Dailies make the cost negligible unless you respec more than twice a day, and if thats happening something is screwed up.
The best raiding builds are usually 19/42 or something like it with minor modifications according to taste.
If you are worried about doing well in PvP just respec for PvP, then back for raiding. Dailies make the cost negligible unless you respec more than twice a day, and if thats happening something is screwed up.
GodOfMoo wrote:
If you raid as anything but Combat you are gimping your raid and doing a disservice to the 9/24 other people with you.
The best raiding builds are usually 19/42 or something like it with minor modifications according to taste.
If you are worried about doing well in PvP just respec for PvP, then back for raiding. Dailies make the cost negligible unless you respec more than twice a day, and if thats happening something is screwed up.
The best raiding builds are usually 19/42 or something like it with minor modifications according to taste.
If you are worried about doing well in PvP just respec for PvP, then back for raiding. Dailies make the cost negligible unless you respec more than twice a day, and if thats happening something is screwed up.
QFT
Go 17/44 combat maces. Take imp Sprint, imp Kick, and Endurance if you like (if you don't want Endurance go 19/42) and you'll be fine for PVP.
Not only that, but since maces now get 5% crit with the spec you'll only be marginally behind combat swords in raid damage.
To be honest, Camo and MoD are crutches and you will be a better rogue if you learn how to PVP and PVE without them.
Not only that, but since maces now get 5% crit with the spec you'll only be marginally behind combat swords in raid damage.
To be honest, Camo and MoD are crutches and you will be a better rogue if you learn how to PVP and PVE without them.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Go 17/44 combat maces. Take imp Sprint, imp Kick, and Endurance if you like (if you don't want Endurance go 19/42) and you'll be fine for PVP.
Not only that, but since maces now get 5% crit with the spec you'll only be marginally behind combat swords in raid damage.
To be honest, Camo and MoD are crutches and you will be a better rogue if you learn how to PVP and PVE without them.
Not only that, but since maces now get 5% crit with the spec you'll only be marginally behind combat swords in raid damage.
To be honest, Camo and MoD are crutches and you will be a better rogue if you learn how to PVP and PVE without them.
It's 6% increased critical strike damage, not 5% crit.
Combat Swords :: Use this as a general build for raiding / 5mans / PvP. Good in all areas. Inter-changeable 5pt weapon spec is great, don't be afraid to go Maces / Fists. Envenom packs a nice punch with Vile Poisons.
Mutalate 41/20/0 :: Use this if you like Mutilate but still want a raiding spec. Ok in 5mans. Great in PvP. Slightly worse DPS than Combat in raids. Limited to ONLY daggers.
Mutilate 41/0/20 :: (See above) :: Best in 5mans with Imp. Sap. Serrated Blades adds a nice punch to your DPS, but it will still be slightly worse than Muti/Combat.
Please, don't go Sub for PvE. Like stated above, it gimps the rest of the raid and you will end up getting kicked / not invited again.
Mutalate 41/20/0 :: Use this if you like Mutilate but still want a raiding spec. Ok in 5mans. Great in PvP. Slightly worse DPS than Combat in raids. Limited to ONLY daggers.
Mutilate 41/0/20 :: (See above) :: Best in 5mans with Imp. Sap. Serrated Blades adds a nice punch to your DPS, but it will still be slightly worse than Muti/Combat.
Please, don't go Sub for PvE. Like stated above, it gimps the rest of the raid and you will end up getting kicked / not invited again.
Mutilate is not "great" in PVP in any sense of the words "great" or "pvp".
Poison immune mobs will also kill it for raid DPS (although there are only a few of these).
Combat swords/maces/fists are the way to go. Since I was corrected on what maced spec gives you, I would say the order of top DPS for raid builds is this:
Combat Swords: 20/41, 19/42, or 17/44 will work. Check the link in Nooble's stick to Demea's thread build.
Combat Fists: again, 20/41, 19/42, or 17/44 is fine.
Combat Maces: surprise surprise it's 20/41, 19/42, or 17/44 again.
There is one spec that might outdamage combat swords, but it is a pure pve build that does not get you any of the PVP goodies (imp Sprint and imp Kick) that the combat tree has to offer. That spec is:
Combat swords + fists: It's a 17/44 build that takes sword spec and fist spec. You use a sword in your offhand to get sword spec procs which cause your mainhand fist to swing with 5% extra crit damage. I don't recommend trying this since you will HAVE to respec to PVP. Where as if you choose straight combat maces you can pvp as normal with a 17/44 build.
Poison immune mobs will also kill it for raid DPS (although there are only a few of these).
Combat swords/maces/fists are the way to go. Since I was corrected on what maced spec gives you, I would say the order of top DPS for raid builds is this:
Combat Swords: 20/41, 19/42, or 17/44 will work. Check the link in Nooble's stick to Demea's thread build.
Combat Fists: again, 20/41, 19/42, or 17/44 is fine.
Combat Maces: surprise surprise it's 20/41, 19/42, or 17/44 again.
There is one spec that might outdamage combat swords, but it is a pure pve build that does not get you any of the PVP goodies (imp Sprint and imp Kick) that the combat tree has to offer. That spec is:
Combat swords + fists: It's a 17/44 build that takes sword spec and fist spec. You use a sword in your offhand to get sword spec procs which cause your mainhand fist to swing with 5% extra crit damage. I don't recommend trying this since you will HAVE to respec to PVP. Where as if you choose straight combat maces you can pvp as normal with a 17/44 build.
Combat swords is best for raiding (I'm using the cookie cutter swords build). Combat maces really isn't that far behind anymore, due to the 5% increased crit damage. If you want to be able to PvE and PvP without respeccing, pick up the Merc Maces and go to town. If you don't mind some respecs, swapping between swords and maces will do best.
Thanks for the advice. Looks like at 70 I'll be doing the cookie cutter swords build most likely, and just respec when I go into Arena or Battlegrounds.
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Mutilate is not "great" in PVP in any sense of the words "great" or "pvp".
I was using it in terms that it is better for PvP than the combat build I linked. :D
Although, yeah, poison Immune mobs will rip you apart >.< I would respec for Some parts of SSC.
Salwrathis wrote:
GodOfMoo wrote:
If you raid as anything but Combat you are gimping your raid and doing a disservice to the 9/24 other people with you.
The best raiding builds are usually 19/42 or something like it with minor modifications according to taste.
If you are worried about doing well in PvP just respec for PvP, then back for raiding. Dailies make the cost negligible unless you respec more than twice a day, and if thats happening something is screwed up.
The best raiding builds are usually 19/42 or something like it with minor modifications according to taste.
If you are worried about doing well in PvP just respec for PvP, then back for raiding. Dailies make the cost negligible unless you respec more than twice a day, and if thats happening something is screwed up.
QFT
Glad to see you've jumped on the Combat wagon, and now act like you've been here all along.
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