Use CC to give DPS something to doFollow

This is just a story, no real point to it, other than I am bored and feel like relaying it to the forum.

I was running regular Shadow Labs with a great group. Rogue, Mage, Hunter, Warrior, and Paladin. I was the Warrior tanking this particular run. We were all friends and had grouped together before so we knew what each was capable of, other than the rogue that hasn't ever grouped with us, but is friends with one of the guys in the group.

So with the 1st four pulls not important(the 1st being a single pull, the second a 2 person and the third a 3 person, then the 4th a warlock and some imps). The first 4+ mob pull I mark them up with CC on two mobs, because I like having two mobs hit on me, it helps generate that much more rage. The only CC is the sap, they go killing the mobs. I pass it off.

Skip past the 1st boss, since they are all 3 man pulls up to that point, and we are back to 4+ mobs. Again a pull and the only CC is the sap.

So I stop and ask why they aren't CCing. Their response was, we are doing fine and don't need it. Which I would agree that we really didn't need it. I tried using a pattern to deal threat, which for the most part worked out. With a Thunderclap starting off, two devistates, another thunderclap, shield slam, switch targets and devistate on the other mobs, then go back to the main target. For the most part it worked out, but time and again, one of the DPS would go on a rampage, and pull aggro, usually when I was building threat on the other targets. Or I would be trying to maintain aggro on the main target and the heals would pull aggro.

It wasn't so bad that CC was really needed, no one was hit more than one time, and it was undercontrol. But it was teatering on the edge of mayhem. I was constantly on edge every fight, mashing buttons trying to maintain aggro on all the mobs, intervening. It was organized chaos.

Any other time I would have revelled in the excitement, enjoyed the intensity, and gloated a bit on my tanking. But not this night, I was tired, and wanted a nice, clean, smooth run. Being on edge at every fight wasn't what I wanted.

So again I asked if they could CC. The response was, "why things are going fine, we don't need it." So I concede and simply say, "ok, but can you give me two sunders before you start attacking so I don't have to go running after mobs, to make it a little simpler." They agree and we begin the next pull.

I pull, the mobs get to me I thunderclap. Aparantly since I didn't sunder 1st that was a sign to the DPS to go in, because the same time I get the 1st sunder in I see a colored arrow fly in followed by a bright fireball... Same as before, for the most part the fight is under control, but I do have to do a little bouncing around.

After the fight I say "we are going to CC from now on". It's no longer a choice. But again, they asked why. My response was "Because I want you you to CC so DPS has something to do while I gain a little more aggro, because waiting a few seconds to attack is to much to ask from you guys."

So then next pull is exactly what I wanted... at the beginning of the instance. It went down clean as a whistle. Sapped one mob, sheeped another, had two mobs hitting on me. Very streamline, and very boring. I suppose, after running 3/4 of an instance on the edge of my seat mashing my keyboard, I woke up.

So after that pull, I told them we don't need any CC. After a few minutes of laughing and making fun of me for being a crybaby, we get to it. Blow through the rest of the instance, and get the rogue his key frag.

Sounds like fun. I would never allow a party that did not CC. I'm sorry but on 3+ mob pulls, if we have CC... we're using it. The one think I hate is having mobs running all over, having dps attacking the wrong mob (even tho I mark skull, x, etc).

I've ran sooooo many normal/heroic runs with my Warrior that I'm sick of them. If for some reason I end up in one (to help a guildy get key, or w/e), things are getting marked, things are getting CC - then burned down fast. Not to sound like a jerk, but I really don't want to be in there ******** around/chasing mobs/wiping (worst case), but I'm there Specifically to help you, I got all the gear I need from there.

I know everyone says CC slows the group down, actually if done right I burn right thru instances, and a bit more organized. I guess I'm just a fan of CC'ing mobs.


Edited, Jan 21st 2008 4:09pm by GYFFORD

My favorite is when people ignore my requests to CC because 'we don't need it' and then complain that the healer sucks because he keeps going OOM. How stupid are these people that they don't see the connection here?

Edited, Jan 21st 2008 4:34pm by Karlina

No offense quor, but Fear is not CC(crowd CONTROL) as you don't really have any control over the feared mob. Fear is my least favorite. I was running heroic SP the other day and the warlock in the group (who's main is a priest in my guild, so I know him fairly well) was either DC'ing the mob or doing something else, and it wasn't really needed as it was usually the last mob. My main beef with fears is running around to kill it, or trying to break the fear so it doesn't aggro other mobs. Its just annoyning IMO, even when I was a tank. It's the most inneffective form of CC I think.

To the OP, I do enjoy CC myself and it does make runs go smoother(especially when people follow the kill target symbols). I usually mark the targets accordingly, and as soon as skull goes down, I mark the next one with skull so the other people know which one I'm focusing on.

When you open up try using Shield Slam first (after bloodrage/T.C. on multi-mobs) to gain that valuable threat. Its much better than devastate imo for initial aggro.

you obviously dont play with many good warlocks.

fear is an excellent CC under the condition that its used well.

how to use it well you ask? its called yo-yoing. basically, a warlock fears a mob and slaps curse of exhaustion on it (for locks w/o CoEx, curse of shadows works too). when the mob looks like hes getting a little too far away, or the warlock just wants the mob back...he casts curse of recklessness on him. this makes the mob immune to the fear effect.

but it doesnt dispel the fear.

since only one curse can be on a target per warlock, all the warlock has to do to reapply the fear is....apply a non-CoReck curse, effectively sending the mob coming and going at the warlocks whim, kinda like a yo-yo.

the best locks can do this on one target while simultaneously wearing it down with DoT's and DPSing another target.

as for warrior fear, its great when used right, and it is also CC (albeit a short-lived one). a quick piercing howl before using shout, followed by another one immediately after, ensures that the mobs are snared for almost the entire duration of the fear, lessening the chance of random add aggro. alternatively, just pull WAY the f*ck back and fear to your hearts content, as ive never seen a mob whos fear pathing takes it more than 40 yards away from the source of the fear.

This is why I believe every player should take the chance to play multiple classes and roles.

A dps will dps different after playing a tank.
A dps will dps different after playing a healer.
A dps will dps different after playing a cc.

A tank will tank different after playing a dps.
A tank will tank different after playing a healer.
A tank will tank different after playing a cc.

A healer will heal different after playing a tank.
A healer will heal different after playing a cc.
A healer will heal different after playing a dps.



Players who have never played a warrior won't really understand rage. Some will know a warrior needs to build up rage to function but they won't usually fully understand it until they've actually played one. Same with dps and heals. Some just don't understand what it takes to heal and demand heals instead of keeping their agro down in the first place. If they tried playing a healer I can guarantee they'll change their toon.

If you see a friend or guildy who's having issues towards certain roles talk to them about it and encourage them to try an alt in that position. They don't have to reach end-game to understand a lot of the basics of what's going on. Even if you took your group of friends and all made a group of alts with the intention of gaining knowledge about their weaknesses. You could gain some very useful insights as early as 20.

This is even more effective if the person has never played any other class. They'll see things happen and a light will turn on in their head. They'll get an "Oh that's how that works!" or an "I always wondered why -class- did that" moment. It helps create players that take into consideration the group dynamic instead of the solo abilities.

its funny you mention that frog. some friends of mine recently raised their warriors to twink at 49 cause theyve seen how pwn a supported warrior can be, and they wanted in.

now, ive told them time and time again that im only as good as my support, and they "believed" me, but not in the truest sense of the word. now, at 49, ive gotten comments like:

"damn alex, i f*cking hate priests!"
"alex! purge that shield!"
"stupid rogue stop dodging!"
"f*cking frost nova!"
"omg sheeped AGAIN..."

and so on. its funny as hell too. they both told me how frustrating it was the few times theyve tried to pvp without some kind of dedicated healer at their backs, and how much of a difference i make when im there with them.

theyre also learning how important it is not to just blindly charge for the kill, and how much a good support needs to be supported in turn. one of the funniest exchanges between one friend and i went something like this:

me - "big red pet on me! i need a taunt!"
friend - "but...i have 78 rage in zerker stance!"
me - "f*cking welcome to warrior, now get this sh*t off me!

after that battle:

friend - "so ive decided that blizzard needs to make tactical mastery a baseline ability..."

gee, ya think?

second friend - "dude, i dunno why, but when im on my rogue, warriors just seem to destroy me, but when im on my warrior i just never seem to be able to kill rogues!"
me - "evasion sucks huh? you just gotta ask yourself....are you ready to dump a lot of rage just so you can overpower that rogue, or do you want to stay in zerker and just hope for the best?"

fun times. theyre getting better tho. my rogue friend (who also has a priest) has been SUPER good on dispelling offensively ever since he started playing his twink war. just like i take perverse pleasure in spam purging priests and mages when im on my shammy.

Edited, Jan 24th 2008 12:48pm by Quor

Yeah I just did regular Shadow Labs with no CC, tanking on my druid. We had a lock and a hunter, so we could've had some. I didn't feel like dealing with it. So I would tank entire pulls, and I did a fair job of it. Healer never pulled aggro, except one pull where I pulled while he was throwing a heal on me. That was my impatience at work.

What did pull aggro? And caused the only wipe? FELGUARD. I have learned to hate that particular summon. I may start asking demo locks to bring out their imp instead. Sure, it's a big part of their damage. So? I'd rather take 30 seconds longer on a pull and not wipe because Cleave pulled a boss that was out of the aggro radius.

And even if it didn't pull extra mobs, it would pull aggro. I think the particular warlock wasn't very trusting of my tanking abilities so he would send the felguard on a mob I marked for later in the pull, so the felguard would tank it. I found that to be irritating. I'm **** retentive about my tanking.

Other than the felguard, only the shadow priest pulled aggro from time to time, and I would always growl / feral charge + growl before it got to him. Was a pretty fun run, just wish I'd had an affliction lock and not a demo lock.