I'm a fully feral druid tank. I regularly OT/MT Kara. For trash mobs I will go cat, but leave my tanking gear on in case the MT gets into trouble. Now we are working on upper Kara, but when it comes to Aran I am asked to step out so that a DPS can take my place.
Well Aran has some stuff I might like, but I will never be able to get it as an OT. And yet all I hear/read about feral druids in end-game they are tanks. I've never met a druid that does end-game in cat form. Do they exist? Are they just not up to the task?
If it is possible, what gear do I need to get to be able to tell my guild that I can keep up my share of DPS in a fight against Aran? I am currently running a lot of assassination gear with earthwarden and the mangle idol.
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2 posts
You can dps on Aran just fine if you have good kitty dps gear. Only reason for you to sit out (assuming you have good kitty gear) is for more spell interrupts or a Warlock for banish.
KellyFrobbit wrote:
For trash mobs I will go cat, but leave my tanking gear on in case the MT gets into trouble. Now we are working on upper Kara, but when it comes to Aran I am asked to step out so that a DPS can take my place.
Probably a stupid question, but have you have made sure they understand that the damage you're throwin down is in your tanking gear and you can do MUCH better in your actual DPS gear? Maybe they're underwhelmed with the damage you're doing "in cat form" and don't understand the massive difference that that would make. Have 'em let you DPS a heroic and lay down the law so they can see how much damage you can REALLY do. Or just wear your cat gear when Offtanking an encounter where there's little to no risk of MT getting into trouble.
There is plenty of feral druids on end game as cat, but most often they have a DPS lower than a rogue DPS, for instance. The reason is, even as a DPSer, you still have innervate and other stuffs to add as a Druid that if you stay only DPSing you are wasting a spot.
You know, it is a hard thing. Maybe if yuo talk to you raid group to stay as a pure dpser at some battle and show how much dps you can do they will respect you better.
I know my guild had 1 feral cat before (he quitted wow) and everyone liked the DPS he did.
You know, it is a hard thing. Maybe if yuo talk to you raid group to stay as a pure dpser at some battle and show how much dps you can do they will respect you better.
I know my guild had 1 feral cat before (he quitted wow) and everyone liked the DPS he did.
Druid off-tanks use cat all the time... When the other tanking classes are done with their mobs, they can provide mediocre dps for the main mark -- a druid off-tank just needs to hit 2 buttons and they can put up big numbers. Maybe not the same as a dedicated DPSer.. but they're brought along to tank.
I'd be kinda angry if someone decided we were going to chop up the group composition mid-raid and shuffle slots. I can understand it in a PuG when you just don't have everything you need... but as a regularly planned event? I certainly wouldn't put in the time and effort only to be swapped out because of poor composition planning from the beginning on a regular basis.
I'd be kinda angry if someone decided we were going to chop up the group composition mid-raid and shuffle slots. I can understand it in a PuG when you just don't have everything you need... but as a regularly planned event? I certainly wouldn't put in the time and effort only to be swapped out because of poor composition planning from the beginning on a regular basis.
26 posts
I am the main tank of my guild which is in ssc and the eye, but since we have pallys and warriors that are specced prot, for some bosses they tank since i can be tank and dps specced at the same time. So during rare occassions i dps, and when i do i am always in the top 2 or 3, most of the time number one, on damage, and we dont bring some noobs in that dont know how to play their class. I just love destroying people that say, Hey feral dps sucks, go tank something. Then the countless excuses as to why they did bad damage that run. So dont let anybody tell you feral dps sucks, if you know how to play the class, feral dps is some of the best there is.
DPSing aran as feral is probably my favorite part of kara. It completely favors melee dps, and you don't have to save energy or rage to interupt spells like rogues and warriors so it's a balls to the wall dps fest. That is the one fight that a feral druid can completely dominate the dps charts.
I actually find Aran really annoying to DPS on. With him spinning all the time to target different people it is really hard to maintain shredding for maximum DPS.
Nightbane is one of my favorites for DPS. If I don't have a Blessing of Salvation then I often have to turn my back on Nightbane at times because my Rip, Mangle, Shredd cycles have been going too well :)
Curator is the worst though. Melee having to spend almost the whole fight chasing around the room after the stupid flares leaves me exhausted after the fight! :)
Nightbane is one of my favorites for DPS. If I don't have a Blessing of Salvation then I often have to turn my back on Nightbane at times because my Rip, Mangle, Shredd cycles have been going too well :)
Curator is the worst though. Melee having to spend almost the whole fight chasing around the room after the stupid flares leaves me exhausted after the fight! :)
I just have my 2 cents to add: 4K attack power and 42% chance to crit and 142 hit rating. Feral Dps rocks the house if you gear for it!
RareBeast wrote:
I actually find Aran really annoying to DPS on. With him spinning all the time to target different people it is really hard to maintain shredding for maximum DPS.
Nightbane is one of my favorites for DPS. If I don't have a Blessing of Salvation then I often have to turn my back on Nightbane at times because my Rip, Mangle, Shredd cycles have been going too well :)
Curator is the worst though. Melee having to spend almost the whole fight chasing around the room after the stupid flares leaves me exhausted after the fight! :)
Nightbane is one of my favorites for DPS. If I don't have a Blessing of Salvation then I often have to turn my back on Nightbane at times because my Rip, Mangle, Shredd cycles have been going too well :)
Curator is the worst though. Melee having to spend almost the whole fight chasing around the room after the stupid flares leaves me exhausted after the fight! :)
yeah I do hate Curator also, although, sometimes I beg and beg my CL to let me kindda OT him in catform, great fun! :D
pfft exhausted? stupid fat cat :P youre a disgrace to feral druids if you get exhausted :P we have 30% passive speed (talented) for a reason :P
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 10:32am by NecareXX
Kitty dps is fine for Kara (and I imagine our feral OTs will continue to dps beyond). Our guild doesn't switch players unless someone needs a particular drop (and the person leaving is happy to go) or unless someone is swapping to a different alt for a particular encounter (e.g. to get a lock for illhoof).
When I was starting out in Kara I had around 2.8k AP in cat and 35% crit. Emerald's dps list is good for finding upgrades and remember to get enchants for your dps gear aswell.
I was usually in the top 3 dps on where I wasn't needed to tank anything, so you certainly shouldn't be a liability to the group.
When I was starting out in Kara I had around 2.8k AP in cat and 35% crit. Emerald's dps list is good for finding upgrades and remember to get enchants for your dps gear aswell.
I was usually in the top 3 dps on where I wasn't needed to tank anything, so you certainly shouldn't be a liability to the group.
NecareXX wrote:
yeah I do hate Curator also, although, sometimes I beg and beg my CL to let me kindda OT him in catform, great fun! :D
pfft exhausted? stupid fat cat :P youre a disgrace to feral druids if you get exhausted :P we have 30% passive speed (talented) for a reason :P
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 10:32am by NecareXX
30% passive speed on the curator fight? maybe you should re-read the tooltip of the talent?
To OP, I almost never do any kara tanking anymore since we have another geared druid that wants to do it, so I am fulltime dps and can hold my own very well.
Nightbane is one of my favorite fights as well :)
I have around 3k ap raidbuffed with trinket procs and ~37% crit for reference.
Other things that your guild should consider about your dps at least if you are OT:
how often is the meter reset? if you have to miss out dpsing on even one mob, you will be far down.
do you dps in dps gear or tank? heavy clefthoof in particular is crap for dps, obviously.
and in my own experience, you will get better with practice.
If you are being brought as OT for the entire run and switched out for "real" dps on 1-tank bosses I'd be absolutely furious. No loot for you?
If they keep doing that, consider a guild-switch or refuse to come as OT.
Let them see how well a prot warrior OT works compared to a druid.
That being said, you should do everything you can to be the best you can as
well. Bring a good set of dps gear with enchants and gems. Bring dps pots and
food. I guess your guild is the kind that will give everyone and their
grandmother dps loot before you, but at least get the best blues.
Also practice dpsing. First part of kara is bleed immune.
Make sure the dps meter is reset on maiden of virtue and equip your dps gear.
If the tank dies, the wipe is not your fault anyway. Show them what you can do.
15 posts
To add to the group.
I am either the MT or OT for my guilds group 1 Kara and ZA. I have never had a problem dpsing any of the boss fights that I didn't need to tank something on. My dps set is not even gemmed or enchanted that well because half is used for tanking as well.
When considering your dps your guild will also want to consider LoP if you are the only feral druid in the raid, as it will up all of your groups dps. When put in a melee group with a rouge/fury warrior/Enh shaman you will really notice their numbers increase with you there.
On the curator fight I always OT in my dps gear. Once you get good at it all you have to do is stand in front of him and mangle each add when it spawns then regular hit until it dies. most of the time you will grab it's agro and it will stay on you until your dps kills it or close to it. Once the last add is dead switch to cat and blast out some quick dps and then switch back to grab the new adds. I hardly do more than straff back and forth depending on where the add spawns at. If you only mangle the one time when the add spawns it wil be up for the next add.
I am either the MT or OT for my guilds group 1 Kara and ZA. I have never had a problem dpsing any of the boss fights that I didn't need to tank something on. My dps set is not even gemmed or enchanted that well because half is used for tanking as well.
When considering your dps your guild will also want to consider LoP if you are the only feral druid in the raid, as it will up all of your groups dps. When put in a melee group with a rouge/fury warrior/Enh shaman you will really notice their numbers increase with you there.
On the curator fight I always OT in my dps gear. Once you get good at it all you have to do is stand in front of him and mangle each add when it spawns then regular hit until it dies. most of the time you will grab it's agro and it will stay on you until your dps kills it or close to it. Once the last add is dead switch to cat and blast out some quick dps and then switch back to grab the new adds. I hardly do more than straff back and forth depending on where the add spawns at. If you only mangle the one time when the add spawns it wil be up for the next add.
Last time I looked, I have around 4k AP and 45% crit raid buffed. The big advantage to having a feral druid off-tank is that you can switch gear from one boss/trash pull to the next and be good at DPS or tanking. For trash in Kara, if you don't specificly have a tanking target marked, go in kitty gear. If for some reason you do have to switch to bear to grab something, you'll take more damage than in your tanking gear, but it won't be unmanageable. You may still have more armor than the Warrior/Tankadin anyway. =)
I'm not sure what a good benchmark is for kitty druid stats mid-Kara. Be as close to the hit cap as you can get (141-143 depending on who you talk to), 2500ish AP unbuffed, 30% crit. Emmerald has a good list of gear for feral druids, the Druid Wiki has a good gear calculator, too.
http://www.emmerald.net/Cat_DPS/Index.html
http://druid.wikispaces.com/ToskksDPSGearMethod
And as for my favorite boss in Kara... Netherspite. The green beam loves rogues and feral druids. Near the end of the portal phase, the energy cost on Shred is so low I can spam it non-stop.
I'm not sure what a good benchmark is for kitty druid stats mid-Kara. Be as close to the hit cap as you can get (141-143 depending on who you talk to), 2500ish AP unbuffed, 30% crit. Emmerald has a good list of gear for feral druids, the Druid Wiki has a good gear calculator, too.
http://www.emmerald.net/Cat_DPS/Index.html
http://druid.wikispaces.com/ToskksDPSGearMethod
And as for my favorite boss in Kara... Netherspite. The green beam loves rogues and feral druids. Near the end of the portal phase, the energy cost on Shred is so low I can spam it non-stop.
I am tank and I often times have to dps in cat in Kara and when I do dps in my kitty gear I am usually in top 3 for dmg sometimes 1st, usually 3rd or 2nd though. Basically if you have proper cat gear and you know how to dps in cat, we are very competitive dps, as well as Brez, innervate, and off tank, 20k armor in cat gear tyvm. ;p
12 posts
RareBeast wrote:
I actually find Aran really annoying to DPS on. With him spinning all the time to target different people it is really hard to maintain shredding for maximum DPS.
Nightbane is one of my favorites for DPS. If I don't have a Blessing of Salvation then I often have to turn my back on Nightbane at times because my Rip, Mangle, Shredd cycles have been going too well :)
Curator is the worst though. Melee having to spend almost the whole fight chasing around the room after the stupid flares leaves me exhausted after the fight! :)
Nightbane is one of my favorites for DPS. If I don't have a Blessing of Salvation then I often have to turn my back on Nightbane at times because my Rip, Mangle, Shredd cycles have been going too well :)
Curator is the worst though. Melee having to spend almost the whole fight chasing around the room after the stupid flares leaves me exhausted after the fight! :)
All this fight is not hard nor annoying for any melee dps. I have run kara more than I can remember and my melee toon never had a problem with any of the fight. For Curator for instance, why not have the group hug in front of Curator. Have the soaker stand at the back of the raid group. All flares will not wonder off, but to the middle or at the soaker (which they have to pass by the group). That should solve the problem on your running/chasing around for the flares.
For feral on cat-form. We have an OT feral on group, his DPS is not that good as other DPSers. But his there to OT. Why take him off when it comes to Aran? The group would have not made it to Aran if it wasnt for the OT. I'd be a **** off druid if I get replace on an event that has a chance dropping the loot that I need/want. Or I would say, well I always say this to previous guild i've been to. "It has been fun running and OT with you guys. I need to move on. I need a guild that helps me proggress. Good luck on your future raids. Bye. :)". Then just forget like it never happen. *gawd, im such a *****
When my guild is raiding we usually take 2 protection warriors for main tanking and 2 feral druids, and since we don't use 4 tanks on most pulls, and not even 4 tanks on most bosses, the ferals get to run around in cat gear from time to time. I love it when someone shows the damage meter and me and my fellow druid are both in top 5 and all the dps start whining about how the tanks ended up in the top dps :)
15 posts
Sarikali wrote:
THE BAD NEWS:
End-game feral cats are exclusively PvP deals.
You will never be able to raid 10-25 man and expect to be kept as a DPS if you stay feral-cat oriented.
For end-game they are either Feral-bear or healers.
Even *rogues* have difficulties finding raiding spots. They are included in raids almost exclusively for their ability to 'kick' and distrupt spellcasters
If after all this you still want to be a cat... you're stuck to PvP fellow-player.
[/i]
End-game feral cats are exclusively PvP deals.
You will never be able to raid 10-25 man and expect to be kept as a DPS if you stay feral-cat oriented.
For end-game they are either Feral-bear or healers.
Even *rogues* have difficulties finding raiding spots. They are included in raids almost exclusively for their ability to 'kick' and distrupt spellcasters
If after all this you still want to be a cat... you're stuck to PvP fellow-player.
[/i]
All these remarks make not much sense to me:
First of all, as other did state correct, I still see feral druids being included in raids where on certain fights more tanks are needed, but most of the time DPS is required. That is where the feral druid with two sets of gear comes in handy (not wasting spots by taking to many prot specced pally / warriors).
Secondly, cat druids can interupt spellcaster too, a well timed maim will interupt most casters just as good as a kick.
"If you wanna be a cat, you are stuck to PVP? Well maybe world PVP or BG PVP but for sure not Arena PVP, the most succesful arena druid is still (and by far) the resto druid.....
My RL always thought it was damn handy I could switch from an OT to a slightly-under-rogue DPS (which wasn't a problem, we didn't have any rogues back then :P) for Aran by just gearswitching.
You don't have to tank Aran, so go kitty gear (with enough stam though) and rip him to shreds.
And like was said before, you still have innervate and battleres for them as well.
You don't have to tank Aran, so go kitty gear (with enough stam though) and rip him to shreds.
And like was said before, you still have innervate and battleres for them as well.
Dutchwhiz wrote:
Secondly, cat druids can interupt spellcaster too, a well timed maim will interupt most casters just as good as a kick.
In most raid encounters the mobs/bosses will be immune to maim. The best way to get an interrupt as druid is if you have vengefull gladiators gloves with the spell interrupt effect to maim
Edited, Jan 28th 2008 3:21pm by DKDruid
Sarikali wrote:
THE BAD NEWS:
End-game feral cats are exclusively PvP deals.
You will never be able to raid 10-25 man and expect to be kept as a DPS if you stay feral-cat oriented.
For end-game they are either Feral-bear or healers.
End-game feral cats are exclusively PvP deals.
You will never be able to raid 10-25 man and expect to be kept as a DPS if you stay feral-cat oriented.
For end-game they are either Feral-bear or healers.
Wrong. And my guild is one example. We have 2 raid groups and each has it's own feral kitty.
Quote:
Depending on how stupid the raid leaders are, they will also refuse Moonkins/balance specced DPS druids as well.
It's a general missconception that they can't DPS as well as a mage or warlock (lies!) and why go balance in a raid when you have a class that could be a tank or healer?
You'll constantly be phased out or raids if you insist on staying feral-cat.
This, sometimes, can be true. But if any guild refuses to take you to a raid encounter, just move to another guild. There is plenty out there without stuborn leaders.
Quote:
If after all this you still want to be a cat... you're stuck to PvP fellow-player.
Sorry. Wrong.
ps. I wont say anything about Moonkin. Just that my guild has 3 of them and they do very good DPS too.
1 post
I think your guild is delinquent in knowing the benefits of the Druid Class. You need to talk to your Class Master and/or Guild Master to inform them of all your abilities. You bring to the table a number of different talents that are absolutely vital in any raid boss fight. In the Aran fight (as mele) you can do wicked damage in cat form and boost the others in your group with a 5% crit bonus. You can also stack bleed affects and increase all other bleed affects with your Mangle ability. You should never be caught in his arcane blast because you can shift forms to remove the slowing affect he puts on everyone. You can battle rez! In dire times of need you can put HOTS on other members of the team in need. Maybe I am just lucky and in a good guild but I am always in on the Aran fight and, although I can’t think of a single thing he drops that I would want or use, I love taking him down. Talk to your CM/GM and let them give you a chance to prove your worth. If they still don’t use you I would start shopping for another guild.
Morphous
70 NE Druid
Spirestone
Morphous
70 NE Druid
Spirestone
8 posts
I'm blunt and truthful and I hate giving someone else false hopes to getting a raid spot with that build. The player who started this thread himself mentioned that he was being slotted out constantly, so there's an obvious feral-cat raiding stigma out there.
I very rarely see Feral cat druids in any raids, when there are some they are incredibly low profile and don't especially contribute to the raid comparatively with other types of druids. If I myself had a say in class balance for a raid I wouldn'T accept a feral-cat druid. Call me ignorant or whatever you'd like... But when 25 player's repair bills depend on it, you can't just simply accept any kind of DPS when you have other much better and reliable sources of it within your guild rouster.
If my experience in raiding contradicts yours, that's fine. But the fact of the matter is that in a raids feral cats don't make it anywhere near top 5 DPS. Give me a screenshot and then I'll not only beleive it, I'll wet my pants and contact that darling druid and ask him his secret.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 5:31pm by Sarikali
I very rarely see Feral cat druids in any raids, when there are some they are incredibly low profile and don't especially contribute to the raid comparatively with other types of druids. If I myself had a say in class balance for a raid I wouldn'T accept a feral-cat druid. Call me ignorant or whatever you'd like... But when 25 player's repair bills depend on it, you can't just simply accept any kind of DPS when you have other much better and reliable sources of it within your guild rouster.
If my experience in raiding contradicts yours, that's fine. But the fact of the matter is that in a raids feral cats don't make it anywhere near top 5 DPS. Give me a screenshot and then I'll not only beleive it, I'll wet my pants and contact that darling druid and ask him his secret.
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 5:31pm by Sarikali
It depends on what raids you are talking about. At Karazhan level, if not tanking, I would often top the DPS (although it is close between me and a few others. Early Karazhan, I was almost always on top of the meter.
Gruuls, I would usually be in the top 5 if not having to tank (pretty rare).
I am well aware that as we go into TK & SSC, that I won't maintain my position. This is just a fact of Blizzard's itemization for us.
Having said that, I am GM & Druid Class leader for my guild and I will not accept a "Cat Druid". I accept "Feral Druids" and they are expected to work on both their DPS & Tank gear (preferably healing gear as well) and be prepared to do whatever the raid leader needs from them.
Gruuls, I would usually be in the top 5 if not having to tank (pretty rare).
I am well aware that as we go into TK & SSC, that I won't maintain my position. This is just a fact of Blizzard's itemization for us.
Having said that, I am GM & Druid Class leader for my guild and I will not accept a "Cat Druid". I accept "Feral Druids" and they are expected to work on both their DPS & Tank gear (preferably healing gear as well) and be prepared to do whatever the raid leader needs from them.
2 posts
Sarikali wrote:
If my experience in raiding contradicts yours, that's fine. But the fact of the matter is that in a raids feral cats don't make it anywhere near top 5 DPS.m blunt and truthful and I hate giving someone else false hopes to getting a raid Give me a screenshot and then I'll not only beleive it, I'll wet my pants and contact that darling druid and ask him his secret.
Feral druids can do absolutely superb dps if they know how to gear themselves and what rotations to use, as an example, this feral druid in my guild came 5th on dps on leo.
Feral Druid - Leo
Feral Druid - Proof he's feral
Edited, Feb 17th 2008 10:02pm by UrkMage
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