Well, I was sitting in the drive through line at Taco Bell today, when for some reason I started thinking about WoW, and more specifically, my rogue.
Then I started thinking along the lines of Blizz's statement that they want the Sub tree to be a rogue's PVP tree, and how they could fix it.
My thoughts drifted to something along the lines of:
Move Shadowstep to be a 21 point talent, same speed buff, 25 second CD. Add a side-talent to it with 2 tiers lowering the CD by 5/10 seconds per point.
Then I thought let's move Prep down to 31 points, and have it reset the cooldown on any rogue abilities you might be able to get while having 31 in the sub tree.
Of course, this left me with what to do with the 41 point talent. I had a couple of ideas.
Blade Wall
Costs 110 energy 3 min cooldown
Increases the rogue's parry chance by 50% for 15 seconds. While Blade Wall is active you get the Exhaustion debuff, preventing you from using Evasion, Sprint, or Cloak of Shadows.
I don't really know if this would be good or not. I know most rogues have a decent parry chance (obviously higher if they get Riposte in the Comb at tree, although I don't think most PVPers do) and a very good doge chance due to high agility. Some rogues could even get to 100% physical damage mitigation with high enough dodge and parry combined. However, it doesn't solve the problem of mobility that everybody complains about. Oh, and the 110 energy cost means only rogues with 4 pieces of glad's gear equipped could use it.
Trip Wire
Costs 40 Energy 3 min cooldown
The rogue throws a wire into the nearest wall directly in front of them. The next enemy to walk over the trip wire springs the trap, causing them to lose control of their character and stumble forward at 50% speed for 5 seconds. Damage does not break the Trip Wire debuff.
Again, this doesn't solve problem of mobility, it does give the rogue another level of utility in arenas though. Your healer is attempting to kite one of the opposition while you duke it out the other one. Somehow your healer loses the kite. You throw out a Trip Wire and your healer drags the kite over it giving themselves 5 seconds to throw a heal on you, get some distance on the kite, and do whatever else they may need to do. I don't particularly care for this one; I just thought it would be fun.
And finally...
Power Surge
Costs 60 Energy 2 min cooldown
The rogue is filled with a surge of adrenaline, reducing the energy cost of all abilities by 50% for 10 seconds and reducing the GCD by 50% for the same period.
I don't know what made me think of this one, but now that I look at it again I guess it's kind of cool.
Anyway, what do you guys think? Like anything you see? Think any of them are ridiculously overpowered? Have any other ideas?
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I like the idea of the trip wire, but i always thought rogues should have that aoe that the night elf hero chick has in frozen throne, rain of blades or something like that?
Well, Power Surge is kinda pointless.. seeing as their is Adrenaline Rush already.. but Blizzard wouldn't have AR and PS, because they're basically the same, AR is just better, even if they're in diff. trees..
AR and Power Surge aren't the same thing exactly. AR doubles energy regen, and while PS would basically do the same thing, the halved GCD is something you can't get anywhere else except with a shaman's Bloodlust/Geroism (and that is only a 30% decrease).
I don't know, the PS idea really wasn't serious, just something fun I thought of.
I don't know, the PS idea really wasn't serious, just something fun I thought of.
There will never be a move that requires you have to certain gear to use it...
I don't really like any of them.
Tripwire isn't useful enough, Bladewall isn't either, and PS is ******' OP.
It's like Super AR on a 2 min CD and preppable.
I don't really like any of them.
Tripwire isn't useful enough, Bladewall isn't either, and PS is ******' OP.
It's like Super AR on a 2 min CD and preppable.
Mage, everybody knows that deep Sub pretty much sucks for raiding. Even a rogue like me who has never raided.
And Blizz said they want it to be our PVP tree.
Why not give it a 41 point talent that requires PVP gear?
And I think trip wire could be useful. It gives us a way to get heat off a team-member without having to go over to them like a warrior would with intercept/intervene.
I agree PS would be OP. I just thought it was cool lol.
And Blizz said they want it to be our PVP tree.
Why not give it a 41 point talent that requires PVP gear?
And I think trip wire could be useful. It gives us a way to get heat off a team-member without having to go over to them like a warrior would with intercept/intervene.
I agree PS would be OP. I just thought it was cool lol.
Or better yet, instead of trip wire, make a super distract that works in combat, dazes all opponents in a 5 yd radius for 4-5 seconds. Good for FRs in WSG, and quick getaway in anytime pvp. Or does that sound a little too much like the engineering bombs?
Considering you came up with this while in a drive-through it's not totally horrible. The problem is that none of your proposed 41 point replacements are any good at all.
Blade Wall sounds like it should be in Combat, since it works well with Riposte (obviously) and combining it with Blade Flurry would be a killer grinding ability. It's no good for PvP because Blizzard would give it a visual cue, like a bunch of knives spinning around the character, that just shouts "don't attack this guy". So while it's a good idea, it's a **** PvP idea. Which is odd considering you need Gladiator gear to make it work.
I have an issue with that last thing as well. It's a 41 point talent, meaning your rogue gets it around level 50. But the energy cost means he can't use it until he's 70, and has pvp'd enough to get four pieces of the Gladiator set. And if he ever breaks the set, for whatever reason (WotLK), the move is unusable.
Trip Wire makes sense and it's a good idea, but it's even less deserving of a 41-point rank than Shadowstep is. In fact, Shadowstep is a more powerful ability, and Trip Wire is nowhere near attractive enough to put 40 points into sub to get. People would just put in enough points to get Shadowstep and then go to another tree - which Blizzard doesn't want them to do anyway.
Power Surge sounds like a fricking broken version of Adrenaline Rush. It's cool. It's nowhere near usable. And it isn't very subtle.
Out of the three Trip Wire is the most intelligent, but it's not a 41 point ability. Maybe if it entangled all people in a certain radius when triggered.
Blade Wall sounds like it should be in Combat, since it works well with Riposte (obviously) and combining it with Blade Flurry would be a killer grinding ability. It's no good for PvP because Blizzard would give it a visual cue, like a bunch of knives spinning around the character, that just shouts "don't attack this guy". So while it's a good idea, it's a **** PvP idea. Which is odd considering you need Gladiator gear to make it work.
I have an issue with that last thing as well. It's a 41 point talent, meaning your rogue gets it around level 50. But the energy cost means he can't use it until he's 70, and has pvp'd enough to get four pieces of the Gladiator set. And if he ever breaks the set, for whatever reason (WotLK), the move is unusable.
Trip Wire makes sense and it's a good idea, but it's even less deserving of a 41-point rank than Shadowstep is. In fact, Shadowstep is a more powerful ability, and Trip Wire is nowhere near attractive enough to put 40 points into sub to get. People would just put in enough points to get Shadowstep and then go to another tree - which Blizzard doesn't want them to do anyway.
Power Surge sounds like a fricking broken version of Adrenaline Rush. It's cool. It's nowhere near usable. And it isn't very subtle.
Out of the three Trip Wire is the most intelligent, but it's not a 41 point ability. Maybe if it entangled all people in a certain radius when triggered.
shadowstep anything before 41 pt talent is OP, and adding a talent to upgrade it is even worse
IT IS NOT INTERCEPT
make it even 31 pt talent, LET ME have dw spec and some ***. goodies, see what happens in pvp
blade wall or w/e: a 41 pt second evasion? useless, only good againt melee, but people dont spec riposte or even setup, which are better vs melee talents and less costly
trip wire, too buggy, ill say that right now.... distract hits walls weird sometimes, and what if a rogues falling? can you jump over it? gnome hitbox ftl?
power surge; aside from its AR like thing, you all say what about the gcd? hmmm well lets think
gcd = 1 or 1.5 sec, dunno which, dun matter
kick = 25 energy cost
half it, bam... 12 energy
half the gcd, lets use the shorter one for basis, bam 0.5 gcd!!
o wait, 2 second energy gain to use that kick... still a problem... hrmmm
it would be underpowered for a 41 pt, and it would ruin the trees (vague but present) progression
if you wanted to flip **** around and re-tune just the abilitys
11pt: ghostly: make it 20% dodge or make weapon dmg 135%
21pt-a: hemo is fine
21pt-bL prep is fine, maybe a tier 8 talent to make prep reset EVERYTHING, not just a small list... prevents ar/prep still, but gives sub a better control utility kinda role
31pt: premed: needs a revamp to make it better for this day and age, 2 combo points AND you moves cannot be dodged, parried, or blocked... 8 second buff
41pt: shadowstep is fine, make it no energy cost would be the only thing i woudl like to see to this that woudlnt break the move
see? that simple and it updates the sub abilitys to a much better level
IT IS NOT INTERCEPT
make it even 31 pt talent, LET ME have dw spec and some ***. goodies, see what happens in pvp
blade wall or w/e: a 41 pt second evasion? useless, only good againt melee, but people dont spec riposte or even setup, which are better vs melee talents and less costly
trip wire, too buggy, ill say that right now.... distract hits walls weird sometimes, and what if a rogues falling? can you jump over it? gnome hitbox ftl?
power surge; aside from its AR like thing, you all say what about the gcd? hmmm well lets think
gcd = 1 or 1.5 sec, dunno which, dun matter
kick = 25 energy cost
half it, bam... 12 energy
half the gcd, lets use the shorter one for basis, bam 0.5 gcd!!
o wait, 2 second energy gain to use that kick... still a problem... hrmmm
it would be underpowered for a 41 pt, and it would ruin the trees (vague but present) progression
if you wanted to flip **** around and re-tune just the abilitys
11pt: ghostly: make it 20% dodge or make weapon dmg 135%
21pt-a: hemo is fine
21pt-bL prep is fine, maybe a tier 8 talent to make prep reset EVERYTHING, not just a small list... prevents ar/prep still, but gives sub a better control utility kinda role
31pt: premed: needs a revamp to make it better for this day and age, 2 combo points AND you moves cannot be dodged, parried, or blocked... 8 second buff
41pt: shadowstep is fine, make it no energy cost would be the only thing i woudl like to see to this that woudlnt break the move
see? that simple and it updates the sub abilitys to a much better level
I do agree Shadowstep may be a bit OP as a 21 point talent, but I think it would be fine at 31. Premed needs to either be completely changed or go away completely. At least with ShS at 31 you couldn't have a AR/ShS build.
They have to do something to give the sub tree either more mobility or more utility. In my opinion the best way to do this would be to move ShS up to the 31 pt talent (21 would be OP, you win) and give us a new 41 pt talent.
I was just trying to come up with some ideas as to what that could be.
They have to do something to give the sub tree either more mobility or more utility. In my opinion the best way to do this would be to move ShS up to the 31 pt talent (21 would be OP, you win) and give us a new 41 pt talent.
I was just trying to come up with some ideas as to what that could be.
I like your ideas. I don't have much to contribute other than I feel that Premeditation seems like the weakest 31 pt talent in the game. It may not be THE weakest, but compared to AR and MS, it's pretty bad.
Rogues have 2 weak 31 pt talents.
I don't think Vigor is really that great of a talent to be way down at 31 pts.
I do admit AR is probably one of the best 31 pt talents in the game, right up there with MS, shaman's stormstrike + mana tide, and a couple others.
I don't think Vigor is really that great of a talent to be way down at 31 pts.
I do admit AR is probably one of the best 31 pt talents in the game, right up there with MS, shaman's stormstrike + mana tide, and a couple others.
I was at a friend's houese the other day and we were talking about abilities that rogues could get when WOTLK comes out. Well i thought it could be nice if rogues could summon 3 copies of himself, kind of like trents, but the only purpose of them would be to disorient your attacker. The would be around you and mimic your every move, and would have and do 25% of your hp and damage. The only thing they wouldve be able to do is copy special moves like evasion etc.
I think that would be a bit overpowered, Blighted.
I could see it happening if maybe they didn't do any damage, but had like 10% of your health but mimicked your movements so your opponent wasn't sure which one was really you.
I could see it happening if maybe they didn't do any damage, but had like 10% of your health but mimicked your movements so your opponent wasn't sure which one was really you.
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