I've been leveling as Enhancement and I'm currently sitting at lvl 43. I think it's pretty sick being a shammy, as my damage bursts are insane and survivability decent.
This is by far the easiest class to level I've played so far. Whether it be a mob or world PVP I feel like I'm unstoppable unless they're +5 levels on me.
When is it that I'll have issues or 'slow down' if at all? Is there some sort of nerf to windfury at 60+ that I don't know about?
Apologies for what may be silly questions. It's just that I see the shaman community unhappy at 70 and wonder if these gripes apply to anything 1-69. If not, happy days for me because I'm loving it.
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- Enh - When does it 'slow down' ?
Enh - When does it 'slow down' ?Follow
it's not that it's nerfed or anything it's just that in pvp at 70 it's no longer about burst it's control of fights which shammies can do fairly well but they also get wrecked by people who can properly dispose of totems
like how I used to kite rogues AROUND my earthbind totem, I would have them chase me around for as long as it took me to kill them. and now it seems all the retards have stopped pvping as they just get stomped really hard by the good pvpers due to the fact that arena gear doesn't require a huge commitment to get.
anyways you can also do really well as enhance the best team I've seen so far with enhance at 70 is pally, sl/sl lock and ofc the shammy also if you wannna pvp at 70 now you pretty much have to fill up any non merc/vengeful pvp slots with glads if you wanna be competitive, as well as all the honour bought items too
like how I used to kite rogues AROUND my earthbind totem, I would have them chase me around for as long as it took me to kill them. and now it seems all the retards have stopped pvping as they just get stomped really hard by the good pvpers due to the fact that arena gear doesn't require a huge commitment to get.
anyways you can also do really well as enhance the best team I've seen so far with enhance at 70 is pally, sl/sl lock and ofc the shammy also if you wannna pvp at 70 now you pretty much have to fill up any non merc/vengeful pvp slots with glads if you wanna be competitive, as well as all the honour bought items too
Enhance shams start coming down to earth in the mid 50s. Have fun while it lasts
28 posts
Actually you will find them quite nice for a very long time : ).You can level them all the way up to 70 with no problems. At level 70 when you start bging, You will pretty much be duped because of that thing called "resilience".Which will pretty much cause that once insane damage you been outputting to be lowered significally. Of course there is also that pigeon hold of being resto as being best for pvp "arena" to actually stand a chance. Right now at your current level since resilience has not been factored in,hack away my friend : ).
no one is going to mention the CCgimp? ok... my turn.
W/o CC you are going to start getting mega kited by hunters/mages/warlocks/priests. pretty much any class that can CC you. and if you get in a melee fight you cant win, theres no way to slow them down and run to your teamies in BGs for help. arena... arena....arena....same thing here just in a smaller area for them to see you easier. stay in 5v5 if you do arena.
maybe 3v3.
W/o CC you are going to start getting mega kited by hunters/mages/warlocks/priests. pretty much any class that can CC you. and if you get in a melee fight you cant win, theres no way to slow them down and run to your teamies in BGs for help. arena... arena....arena....same thing here just in a smaller area for them to see you easier. stay in 5v5 if you do arena.
maybe 3v3.
Draeneipally wrote:
no one is going to mention the CCgimp? ok... my turn.
W/o CC you are going to start getting mega kited by hunters/mages/warlocks/priests. pretty much any class that can CC you. and if you get in a melee fight you cant win, theres no way to slow them down and run to your teamies in BGs for help. arena... arena....arena....same thing here just in a smaller area for them to see you easier. stay in 5v5 if you do arena.
maybe 3v3.
W/o CC you are going to start getting mega kited by hunters/mages/warlocks/priests. pretty much any class that can CC you. and if you get in a melee fight you cant win, theres no way to slow them down and run to your teamies in BGs for help. arena... arena....arena....same thing here just in a smaller area for them to see you easier. stay in 5v5 if you do arena.
maybe 3v3.
this is why you have a pally on a team with an enhance or elemental shammy
Blessing of freedom solves alot of your problems as well as BoP giving you some time to cast uninteruppted by melee
I was on a 3v3 team of a ret pally ( lol I know ) Balance druid and me as elemental and we could drop someone on the other team in the time period of 2 and a half seconds :D since the healer on the would be cycloned and if he trinketed out of cyclone I would just ES the heal or the pally would repentance/Hammer of justice and since we have 3 team members who can heal focusing one of us doesn't do all that much
Edit: but yeah the best team I've seen for an enhance shammy was lock holy pala and the shammy
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 1:54pm by EvilShenanigans
Enhancement never slows down. It only speeds up until 70, at which point it slams into a brick wall and stops dead. It's very, very hard to get into a heroic instance as a DPS with no CC, Kara has certain CC requirements as well, and there are very, very few opponents an Enhancement Shaman has a chance of beating in PvP.
My advice to you would be to respec Resto at 70 to run heroics. Just tell your parties ahead of time that you are really an Enhancement Shaman and that you are planning on rolling on any Enhancement gear that should drop. If they're ok with that, cool. If not, you don't have to heal for them.
It's either that or get into a very good guild with some very, very well-geared tanks and healers that can support you while gearing up for end-game content. PvP... well... good luck. Even with full PvP gear you're still the easiest class in the game to kite.
My advice to you would be to respec Resto at 70 to run heroics. Just tell your parties ahead of time that you are really an Enhancement Shaman and that you are planning on rolling on any Enhancement gear that should drop. If they're ok with that, cool. If not, you don't have to heal for them.
It's either that or get into a very good guild with some very, very well-geared tanks and healers that can support you while gearing up for end-game content. PvP... well... good luck. Even with full PvP gear you're still the easiest class in the game to kite.
personally i do not agree with gaudions pessemistic view of heroics at all. I have NEVER been kicked out of a group as elemental because of not being able to CC. The same went for kara. (enhancement and elemental do not have CC so the rule would apply for both) CC is definately not needed for most heroics. It definately makes it easier. A pally tank is your best friend as a shaman though. Not needed but she/he/it will make it easier. Maybe gaudion just had bad heroic experiences. but my server is overpopulated and i was still able to get into heroics whenever i decided to PUg them before i got my pre-made together.
You might hit a couple of problems as enhance when you first get to Outlands, depending on what your gear looks like.
If you get some nice Outlands greens off the AH before you go to Outlands you'll be better equipped.
If you try to go to Outlands in your level 50 quest and instance rewards the boars right outside Thrallmar/Honor Hold are gonna rip you a new one.
If you get some nice Outlands greens off the AH before you go to Outlands you'll be better equipped.
If you try to go to Outlands in your level 50 quest and instance rewards the boars right outside Thrallmar/Honor Hold are gonna rip you a new one.
IMHO, my shaman is in the middle for easy leveling and mediocre survivability and has definite CC problems. I have done 5 types to 65 or greater (demo/aff warlock 70, feral cat/bear druid 70, shadow priest 66, BM hunter 68, enh shammy 65) all in good solo PVE specs the entire way from 10. My rogue (combat) and warrior (MS) are in the low 50's. All 95%+ solo leveling. The shammy depends on burst damage way too much, has very little CC and no good escape. At 65 (and the same from 45+) if you don't get lucky with the crits and windfury it is a loooong grind to kill a mob. If you do get lucky then it's over really quickly so get your crit rate up there. However, my feral druid is still tops on burst DPS in cat form/DPS gear (pounce + 30% crit on mangle ftw -> kill same level back at 65 2 seconds out of stun if lucky). The BM hunter is insanely easy to level and extremely survivable with FD, pet, traps, and ranged DPS (almost boring most times which is why he is not 70 yet). warlock with pet, fear (3 types), taps, DoTs is more consistent grinding but really survivable. So, all 7 types I see little problem leveling to 70 though warrior is the trickiest. Again, most of the other types have pretty much predictable DPS and kill rates. The shammy is frustrating as you seem to have 2 settings, high DPS (crit+WF) and low DPS (unlucky). If you get unlucky and have adds then you are in real problems. I did not experience that it was easy to kill +5 level mobs as a pretty much melee DPS. Starting at +4 levels your hit rate drops seriously and thus I found my DSP significantly dropping in those cases.
I just do not see what my enh shammy brings extra to guilds and groups beyond bursty (insane at some times or low others) DPS. Still, he is fun with all that crashing and banging and flashing going on when things go right.
I just do not see what my enh shammy brings extra to guilds and groups beyond bursty (insane at some times or low others) DPS. Still, he is fun with all that crashing and banging and flashing going on when things go right.
Draeneipally wrote:
personally i do not agree with gaudions pessemistic view of heroics at all. I have NEVER been kicked out of a group as elemental because of not being able to CC. The same went for kara. (enhancement and elemental do not have CC so the rule would apply for both) CC is definately not needed for most heroics. It definately makes it easier. A pally tank is your best friend as a shaman though. Not needed but she/he/it will make it easier. Maybe gaudion just had bad heroic experiences. but my server is overpopulated and i was still able to get into heroics whenever i decided to PUg them before i got my pre-made together.
I've never been kicked from a group either. However, I've been passed up for numerous heroic parties, and most of them I do get into simply don't have a tank that's geared enough to support a lack of CC, so they end up failing. I'm not saying it's impossible to complete heroics as a DPS Shaman; I have. But you make it infinitely harder both on yourself and your party members.
In almost every single heroic there are a least a couple parts where you absolutely need CC, and there are quite a few that are just literally impossible to complete without it, geared tank or no. If they take you along as a DPS Shaman, then the other two DPS must have CC. If one of them doesn't and they still take you along, now they've got two DPS that can't CC can can only take one mob out of the fight. And if none of you do?
Good luck getting past the second boss in heroic Blood Furnace when your tank has to hold three, three, four, four mobs at a time before the boss. I hope he's epicced to the nines.
I almost miss being resto some times then I crit something for 4k and the want vanishes
I'm used to doing heroics with minimal or no CC since I have a friend who has full t6 on his druid and I can heal him as elemental if we can't find anyone ( I only have -5% healing cost for healing talents LOL) and he's more or less my bische since well.... we won't get into it but he's mah bische, so I have a tank whenever he's on.
I'm used to doing heroics with minimal or no CC since I have a friend who has full t6 on his druid and I can heal him as elemental if we can't find anyone ( I only have -5% healing cost for healing talents LOL) and he's more or less my bische since well.... we won't get into it but he's mah bische, so I have a tank whenever he's on.
I'd disagree with that Gaudion. There aren't a ton of places in Heroics that shamans can't overcome through intelligent play.
Really the only fight I've run so far where it seemed like my lack of CC seriously compromised the group was Braggok where lack of combat-CC makes the fight far harder than normal. Apart from that, there are few mobs which can be CCed which can't be Slowed - and any mob that can be slowed can be easily kited by a shaman, which is functionally similar to CC (it's not full CC and you're not doing quite as much damage as a typical CC class can while it's target is CCed, but it usually solves the problem.)
The hardest battle in heroics is bludgeoning your way through people's preconceived notions of what a shaman can do in a heroic, and getting yourself into a group. Most players aren't that amazing, and so people have seen a lot of lackluster shaman DPS in groups - so when a shaman who knows how to play comes around, they just assume he's junk like the rest.
Thus far as Ele I've come out as #1 DPS in 95% of my heroic runs, while providing a fairly good amount of utility (offhealing, buffing, rezzing, grounding/interrupts, and quasi-CC via earthbind/frostshock-kiting.) Heroics are one of the few places in the game where offhealing actually feels handy, since certain pulls can really lay the hurt on your group if your healer isn't superbly geared. And a lot of my gear is kinda junky: PVP budget-epix and my 1h+Shield are both healing gear still :X (Crystal Pulse + PVP Healing Mace (which tbh has a fairly good amount of +dmg))
Yet despite this, the only real problems I've had in heroics are either others' fault (bad pulls) or that solitary Braggok experience (just bad group comp and I stepped out after the 2nd wipe to let them find a replacement with combat CC). For the most part they've been pretty smooth runs.
Really the only fight I've run so far where it seemed like my lack of CC seriously compromised the group was Braggok where lack of combat-CC makes the fight far harder than normal. Apart from that, there are few mobs which can be CCed which can't be Slowed - and any mob that can be slowed can be easily kited by a shaman, which is functionally similar to CC (it's not full CC and you're not doing quite as much damage as a typical CC class can while it's target is CCed, but it usually solves the problem.)
The hardest battle in heroics is bludgeoning your way through people's preconceived notions of what a shaman can do in a heroic, and getting yourself into a group. Most players aren't that amazing, and so people have seen a lot of lackluster shaman DPS in groups - so when a shaman who knows how to play comes around, they just assume he's junk like the rest.
Thus far as Ele I've come out as #1 DPS in 95% of my heroic runs, while providing a fairly good amount of utility (offhealing, buffing, rezzing, grounding/interrupts, and quasi-CC via earthbind/frostshock-kiting.) Heroics are one of the few places in the game where offhealing actually feels handy, since certain pulls can really lay the hurt on your group if your healer isn't superbly geared. And a lot of my gear is kinda junky: PVP budget-epix and my 1h+Shield are both healing gear still :X (Crystal Pulse + PVP Healing Mace (which tbh has a fairly good amount of +dmg))
Yet despite this, the only real problems I've had in heroics are either others' fault (bad pulls) or that solitary Braggok experience (just bad group comp and I stepped out after the 2nd wipe to let them find a replacement with combat CC). For the most part they've been pretty smooth runs.
Axehilt wrote:
Really the only fight I've run so far where it seemed like my lack of CC seriously compromised the group was Braggok where lack of combat-CC makes the fight far harder than normal.
Speaking from experience, I've found that bosses themselves are actually about the easiest parts of heroics. It's the multi-mob pulls that are murder.
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Apart from that, there are few mobs which can be CCed which can't be Slowed - and any mob that can be slowed can be easily kited by a shaman, which is functionally similar to CC (it's not full CC and you're not doing quite as much damage as a typical CC class can while it's target is CCed, but it usually solves the problem.)
Theorycrafting at its finest.
Problem with that being that there are very few wide open areas that are conducive to pure kiting through snares. You need a very wide track to run on because you can not afford to take a single hit. Doesn't take too many slip-ups at 2000-4000 a hit to see you dead, and you can't just run back down a narrow hallway out of your healer's range.
This is additionally inferior to CC because it requires your constant attention and completely consumes your damage. An Elemental Shaman can leapfrog Frost Shock and Earthbind Totem to get a lightning spell off here and there, but it's still a dramatic DPS decrease and they can't focus another mob while kiting their target. Enhancement Shaman can't do anything... because if they run up to melee their target, why are they kiting at all? Oh, right, the 2000-4000 damage hits...
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The hardest battle in heroics is bludgeoning your way through people's preconceived notions of what a shaman can do in a heroic, and getting yourself into a group. Most players aren't that amazing, and so people have seen a lot of lackluster shaman DPS in groups - so when a shaman who knows how to play comes around, they just assume he's junk like the rest.
That's actually an argument for my point, not against it. A good DPS Shaman can't make the difference in a lackluster group. You can not. Even if you make use of every aspect of your class to its fullest potential, you still have zero effect on the group's potential because at the end of it all, the only thing you bring is phenominal DPS and DPS buffs. Shaman mitigation totems are crap in heroics and Kara.
An additional CC, however, can help a less than amazing group clear a heroic. An amazingly geared/skilled tank can help a less than amazing group clear a heroic. (A great healer is necessary either way, but the tank and the CC are the most important factors.)
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Thus far as Ele I've come out as #1 DPS in 95% of my heroic runs, while providing a fairly good amount of utility (offhealing, buffing, rezzing, grounding/interrupts, and quasi-CC via earthbind/frostshock-kiting.) Heroics are one of the few places in the game where offhealing actually feels handy, since certain pulls can really lay the hurt on your group if your healer isn't superbly geared. And a lot of my gear is kinda junky: PVP budget-epix and my 1h+Shield are both healing gear still :X (Crystal Pulse + PVP Healing Mace (which tbh has a fairly good amount of +dmg))
You'll have to forgive the obnoxiousness of how this next response is going to come across, but... that's really nothing more than a lot of wishful thinking. You haven't really made that much of a difference. I've topped herioc and Kara meters too... what of it? At the end of the day, all we really bring is DPS.
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... and I stepped out after the 2nd wipe to let them find a replacement with combat CC.
Hmm...
The other major problem with kiting as a method of CC is that a properly CC'd mob (sheep/trap/sap/seduce) does not have it's threat table active. When you're kiting that mob with snares, the healer will be building massive threat on it, and will be more likely than you to be the one getting taken out.
This is the same reason that roots aren't terribly useful for caster druids as a CC in the few instances that are considered outdoors. They're only useful to grab an enemy that's running for your healer or running in fear to the next pull for some backup.
This is the same reason that roots aren't terribly useful for caster druids as a CC in the few instances that are considered outdoors. They're only useful to grab an enemy that's running for your healer or running in fear to the next pull for some backup.
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