Best Raid Build?Follow

I read few topics about builds but I am still unsure which one is the best for the highest dps on raids.

I am now 0/31/30 and this build is good for PvP and raids but I want have the best dps for raids so what to choose?

11/27/23(or 11/26/24)
19/42/0
20/0/41
0/20/41(or 0/21/40)

Buying Brooch of Deftness can resolve a problem of expertise so build 0/20/41(or 0/21/40)start looking more friendly and AR is not essential durning raids in my opinion especially after 2.3.2 changes-but I am not rogue guru or some mathmaster like Nooblestick-so whats is your opinion?

It's far from good for raids, especially with the lack of double AR and vastly nerfed hemo. Anything the build had going for it is long gone.


Both are terrible now, see hemo nerf.


/win. Look at my armory profile for the cookie cutter Combat Swords build.


Raiding as shadowstep is just plain bad. Specializing in the tree with the worst damage increasing talents in a setting where all you need to do is damage is a very, very bad idea.


See above.


People don't go combat to get epxertise. Expertise didn't even exist until a couple patches back, and people had been combat since the dawn of time for raids. Combat also was not changed in any way by the AR/Prep nerf, I have no idea why you thought that makes AR less attractive. The problem with Subtlety isn't the lack of AR or Expertise, it's the complete lack of damage increasing talents. You get Serrated Blades (about 4% damage), Deadliness (250 AP with good raid gear in an optimal setting) and Sinister Calling (a couple points of crit and a little AP). Combat gives you the following.

+5% Hit
+50% OH weapon damage (that alone is better than everything in Subtlety combined)
Weapon Spec Talents
+10 Expertise
+150 Energy every 5 minutes
+20% Haste for 15 seconds every 2 minutes
+3 Energy on every OH swing (average)
+6% Damage to specials
+10% Damage to SS/Backstab
And a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head, or aren't important enough to mention.

If you look at combat and only see AR and Weapon Expertise as being of interest, then you need to reevaluate your understanding of the class mechanics.

Highest personal dps for raids is 20/41/0 combat swords. However the spreadsheet(rogue.raidcal.com), with hemo buff to raid, indicates 11/27/23(or 11/26/24)does more potential dam than combat swords. But if you want to top meters combat swords is the way to go. If your raid includes 8+ physical dpsers a trispec hemo rogue can be fairly certain all the hemo charges are being used.

Warning - anecdotal evidence in next paragraph -
Recently did Leo in ssc with 2 trispec rogues, raid composition included 3 hunters(3pets), 2 tanks, 3 rogues, 1 enh shammy, 1 ret pally(i know, but he actually did over 750dps, lol)=13 physical dpsers(including pets). Basically never saw either of the hemo buffs on the boss as the charges were disappearing incredibly fast and we downed him a full 2.5min before enrage while having our best dps lock tank during demon phase. Hunters seemed to benefit the most, especially the BM hunter that stacked haste. The 2 trispec rogues did aprox 100dps less than combat spec and we were 3rd and 4th on the meters, spreadsheet estimates hemo debuff at +125ps so should have been a net increase.

Undodgeable finishers?