Scenario: You're defending an AB node which you currently control.
Question: Which totems do you personally use? For extra credit: Why?
(The question arose based on one of alla's Screenshot of the Day; I was curious to gather the opinion of fellow shammies. I'll show you mine if you show me yours!)
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Quiz: PvP defensive totemsFollow
1. Grounding for casters. Always.
2. Tremor down all the time unless kiting with Earthbind to buy time for backup to arrive.
3. Poison cleansing to prevent Rogue poisons from tearing you apart.
4. Magma Totem if a Rogue is near you or Searing Totem to delay casters + extra damage.
2. Tremor down all the time unless kiting with Earthbind to buy time for backup to arrive.
3. Poison cleansing to prevent Rogue poisons from tearing you apart.
4. Magma Totem if a Rogue is near you or Searing Totem to delay casters + extra damage.
Sir Exodus the Cheesemaker wrote:
Quote:
"All this talk of vaginas is making me thirsty."
Generically I drop Searing, Grounding, Tremor, and Poison Cleansing. However, if I suspect a Rogue or Druid is in the area, I drop Magma, Wrath of Air, Stoneskin, and Poison Cleansing.
Typically I find myself dropping my anti-stealth package more then the generic all-purpose spread. Once a Rogue or Druid has you there is not a lot you can do, whereas you can see other incomings a mile a way and still have plenty of time to drop totems.
Typically I find myself dropping my anti-stealth package more then the generic all-purpose spread. Once a Rogue or Druid has you there is not a lot you can do, whereas you can see other incomings a mile a way and still have plenty of time to drop totems.
I have one honor kill on my shaman...just one. I would probably through a magma down for rogues, grounding totem for anti-caster, mabye a healing stream, and a strength of earth for strength. Like I said...one honor kill.
Ailitardif wrote:
I have one honor kill on my shaman...just one. I would probably through a magma down for rogues, grounding totem for anti-caster, mabye a healing stream, and a strength of earth for strength. Like I said...one honor kill.
:O
I've killed people when I wasn't even paying attention to the game before....
Quote:
1. Grounding for casters. Always.
2. Tremor down all the time unless kiting with Earthbind to buy time for backup to arrive.
3. Poison cleansing to prevent Rogue poisons from tearing you apart.
4. Magma Totem if a Rogue is near you or Searing Totem to delay casters + extra damage.
2. Tremor down all the time unless kiting with Earthbind to buy time for backup to arrive.
3. Poison cleansing to prevent Rogue poisons from tearing you apart.
4. Magma Totem if a Rogue is near you or Searing Totem to delay casters + extra damage.
Thats pretty much the "correct" answer, or at least thats a guild line to go off of.
I get mixed results with magma tot. as a anti-stealth measure. I still end up getting sapped, then the whole stun lock to follow after, regardless if I "catch" them first. And magma doesn't usually "kill" anyone since no one stands around long enough for the 100 or so dmg per tick to burn them to death :P
I most certainly use magma as a anti snake trap counter tho!
I kinda like dropping Nova in PvP alot myself, a good crit off a nova can almost be a xtra "WF" proc as far as dmg goes. No one likes a "quick" 2k-ish of burst dmg to pop up on their SCT, even nicer when a FEW ppl take a unexpected 2k ish at ONCE!
Should always have Grounding down as much as possible, thats for sure. If I'm kinda lazy, but wanna cover ALL my bases for what can get thrown at me, I drop Tremor, Frost Res., Fire Res., and Nature Res. I tend not to use healing stream in combat, simply because per tick, it doesn't healing back enough to "stop" a good burst dmg, and "living" long enough to give it a chance too do so, rarely happens in PvP. I of course drop mana tot, for downtimes when I think no ones around so I can recover.
When a rogue stunlock us, is there anything we can do other than wait to die?
It's really frustrating.
Edited, Jan 20th 2008 10:22pm by waihwang
It's really frustrating.
Edited, Jan 20th 2008 10:22pm by waihwang
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When a rogue stunlock us, is there anything we can do other than wait to die?
Not really. Your "best" (and I say that loosely) defense against stun lock is STAM STAM STAM and STAM! Its by far not a full proof method, but frankly thats all we got, since we don't have any straight forward abilities to counter it.
Basically, your going to have to "out live" the non-lubed beating your going to take. Once they can't hold the "lock" anymore means they are out of energy, which on the plus side means they're outta juice to keep spamming abilities on you. Thats your chance to hopefully drop them...thats the good news! Bad news is, it doesn't take long for them to get re-energized, so pray to the WF crit god or CL+LO crit god for something to happen in the short 5 seconds of "chance", before they get energy to start going to town on you again.
Note: Understand one on one, we're not a good class up against just about everyone, generally speaking. We RELY on luck for wins, more so than strategy.
The key to fighting rogues, even for Enhancement shaman, is to try and turn the stunlock into a kite. You have three tools for this: Your PvP trinket, Earthbind Totem, and Poison Cleansing Totem. Your shocks also play an important role.
The key to the trinket is _not_ to trinket out of the Cheap Shot (opener). This takes a lot of personal discipline, but it's very important. You have to hold your breath, then trinket out of the Kidney Shot (finishing move). As soon as the KS goes down the rogue's options decrease, whereas if you trinket out of the CS he has the KS immediately available.
When you hit your trinket you should already be strafing away. An Earthbind Totem is the important thing here. You need to create some seperation. If the rogue is good and has Crippling Poison on you, GCD#2 should be a Poison Cleansing Totem. If you did this right, then you're just barely out of melee range and the rogue is snared.
Now? Now it gets a lot more interesting. Your next move should be a Flame Shock in the hopes of forestalling a Vanish --> new stunlock. You also have to keep strafing aggressively to keep the rogue in Earthbind range. Even Enhancement shaman need to stay out of melee for as long as possible. Shock spam and careful maneuvering around your totems is all you can do.
Of course, a rogue can always CoS + Vanish + new stunlock, but hey, at least you were worth his entire ******* of cooldowns. And if he's Prep he can do it all over again! Woo-hoo! At least you get into his diminishing returns eventually; hopefully you're alive to see it.
The *real* defense against a rogue stunlock is to spec Resto. The Earth Shield/ Stoneskin/ Poison Cleansing combo drives rogues nuts. The rest of us are pretty hosed.
The key to the trinket is _not_ to trinket out of the Cheap Shot (opener). This takes a lot of personal discipline, but it's very important. You have to hold your breath, then trinket out of the Kidney Shot (finishing move). As soon as the KS goes down the rogue's options decrease, whereas if you trinket out of the CS he has the KS immediately available.
When you hit your trinket you should already be strafing away. An Earthbind Totem is the important thing here. You need to create some seperation. If the rogue is good and has Crippling Poison on you, GCD#2 should be a Poison Cleansing Totem. If you did this right, then you're just barely out of melee range and the rogue is snared.
Now? Now it gets a lot more interesting. Your next move should be a Flame Shock in the hopes of forestalling a Vanish --> new stunlock. You also have to keep strafing aggressively to keep the rogue in Earthbind range. Even Enhancement shaman need to stay out of melee for as long as possible. Shock spam and careful maneuvering around your totems is all you can do.
Of course, a rogue can always CoS + Vanish + new stunlock, but hey, at least you were worth his entire ******* of cooldowns. And if he's Prep he can do it all over again! Woo-hoo! At least you get into his diminishing returns eventually; hopefully you're alive to see it.
The *real* defense against a rogue stunlock is to spec Resto. The Earth Shield/ Stoneskin/ Poison Cleansing combo drives rogues nuts. The rest of us are pretty hosed.
Oh, and in answer to the original question:
As an alternative to dropping all your totems in a defensive grid, consider Sentry Totem + Ghost Wolf + a good hiding spot. Few people know what a Sentry Totem even does. The value is that it lets you keep an eye on likely approaches without betraying your own position. Make sure that your hiding place is close enough that, if they try an immediate flag grab, you can get there in time to shock and stop them. Get your contact report off (consider writing macros for this), wait for them to go for the flag, get there and stop them, and begin the duel. This buys you a few extra seconds.
As an alternative to dropping all your totems in a defensive grid, consider Sentry Totem + Ghost Wolf + a good hiding spot. Few people know what a Sentry Totem even does. The value is that it lets you keep an eye on likely approaches without betraying your own position. Make sure that your hiding place is close enough that, if they try an immediate flag grab, you can get there in time to shock and stop them. Get your contact report off (consider writing macros for this), wait for them to go for the flag, get there and stop them, and begin the duel. This buys you a few extra seconds.
Quote:
1. Grounding for casters. Always.
2. Tremor down all the time unless kiting with Earthbind to buy time for backup to arrive.
3. Poison cleansing to prevent Rogue poisons from tearing you apart.
4. Magma Totem if a Rogue is near you or Searing Totem to delay casters + extra damage.
2. Tremor down all the time unless kiting with Earthbind to buy time for backup to arrive.
3. Poison cleansing to prevent Rogue poisons from tearing you apart.
4. Magma Totem if a Rogue is near you or Searing Totem to delay casters + extra damage.
That's what I do. I got into an argument with my roommate about a few of them; he does WoA, Searing, Stoneskin, Healing Stream. While I admit that this could be good against some classes, I think it's a horrible spread if you don't know what's coming. Especially scandalous was the lack of appriciation for grounding... and his main's a mage!
Just to point out: This isn't a quiz. It is a survey/questionnaire.
I clicked it expecting to test my knowledge of game mechanics. I'm not a shaman, so I'm not sure what I would use (I only know what I like them to use: anything that gives me health/mana and a snare on the enemy). : (
I clicked it expecting to test my knowledge of game mechanics. I'm not a shaman, so I'm not sure what I would use (I only know what I like them to use: anything that gives me health/mana and a snare on the enemy). : (
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
My trinity is grounding, poison cleansing and earthbind. That way if a rogue or druid gets me I can begin kiting right out of the stun. If I know there's a lock or priest around I'll drop tremor instead, but as someone mentioned earlier, you can usually see them coming. And EB helps with other classes, too -- kiting pallies and warriors and even slowing down mages who try to kite me.
Magma just costs too much mana to keep up regularly; I only drop it if I hear the stealth sound or have other reason to think a stealther is in the area. If I feel extravagant I drop a searing totem, under the theory that the moment combat starts it'll begin zapping whoever jumps me and I'll save a GCD. But I'm gonna try the sentry/ghost wolf combo. I always feel too exposed in the open since a good rogue can still slaughter me with all 4 totems down. (Druids have a tougher time.)
Magma just costs too much mana to keep up regularly; I only drop it if I hear the stealth sound or have other reason to think a stealther is in the area. If I feel extravagant I drop a searing totem, under the theory that the moment combat starts it'll begin zapping whoever jumps me and I'll save a GCD. But I'm gonna try the sentry/ghost wolf combo. I always feel too exposed in the open since a good rogue can still slaughter me with all 4 totems down. (Druids have a tougher time.)
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Magma just costs too much mana to keep up regularly; I only drop it if I hear the stealth sound or have other reason to think a stealther is in the area.
And that's why we downrank Magma Totem so we can spam it constantly with no drawbacks except a GCD.
Sir Exodus the Cheesemaker wrote:
Quote:
"All this talk of vaginas is making me thirsty."
If we're talking exclusively about BG's, discussing Rogue cap prevention is actually pretty hilarious. Because they don't even need to fight us. At all. A Rogue can cap an AV/AB node over the duration of Blind. So even if you get the jump on them, if they blind you and there's not anyone else around... successful cap. Then they can either A.) kill you, B.) stun-lock you until the flag caps, or C.) vanish and chain-sap you until the flag caps.
Even if it means they kill you, save your trinket for Blind. And drop a Searing or Magma Totem right on top of the flag as quick as you can. If you get it down before the Blind and the Rogue doesn't destroy it first or immediately afterwards, you might be able to prevent the cap.
Even if it means they kill you, save your trinket for Blind. And drop a Searing or Magma Totem right on top of the flag as quick as you can. If you get it down before the Blind and the Rogue doesn't destroy it first or immediately afterwards, you might be able to prevent the cap.
Er... no, they can't.
Blind lasts ten seconds. A cap takes ten seconds. They have to blind, then click the flag. If you're spamming a Shock you should be able to come out of it in time to prevent the cap.
Sap is a valid concern, but they can't do it once you're in combat and a totem at the base of the flag should delay them long enough for the cap to not go off even if they do destroy it. With that said, though, Polymorph is just as bad (12 seconds) and doesn't require the Mage to be anywhere near you or out of combat, and I almost never see them try to pull that off.
Blind lasts ten seconds. A cap takes ten seconds. They have to blind, then click the flag. If you're spamming a Shock you should be able to come out of it in time to prevent the cap.
Sap is a valid concern, but they can't do it once you're in combat and a totem at the base of the flag should delay them long enough for the cap to not go off even if they do destroy it. With that said, though, Polymorph is just as bad (12 seconds) and doesn't require the Mage to be anywhere near you or out of combat, and I almost never see them try to pull that off.
RPZip wrote:
Er... no, they can't.
Blind lasts ten seconds. A cap takes ten seconds. They have to blind, then click the flag. If you're spamming a Shock you should be able to come out of it in time to prevent the cap.
Sap is a valid concern, but they can't do it once you're in combat and a totem at the base of the flag should delay them long enough for the cap to not go off even if they do destroy it. With that said, though, Polymorph is just as bad (12 seconds) and doesn't require the Mage to be anywhere near you or out of combat, and I almost never see them try to pull that off.
Blind lasts ten seconds. A cap takes ten seconds. They have to blind, then click the flag. If you're spamming a Shock you should be able to come out of it in time to prevent the cap.
Sap is a valid concern, but they can't do it once you're in combat and a totem at the base of the flag should delay them long enough for the cap to not go off even if they do destroy it. With that said, though, Polymorph is just as bad (12 seconds) and doesn't require the Mage to be anywhere near you or out of combat, and I almost never see them try to pull that off.
If you have Imp Sap, can't you sap/blind from a farther range (i.e. farther than the range of Magma Totem)?
RPZip wrote:
Er... no, they can't.
Yes, they can. It happens to me frequently. Not once or twice here and there. Frequently.
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Blind lasts ten seconds. A cap takes ten seconds. They have to blind, then click the flag. If you're spamming a Shock you should be able to come out of it in time to prevent the cap.
Don't forget that you also wander around while blinded, changing both your position and the direction you're facing, and they can cap flags out of your LoS by standing on the outside of a tower just within range to click on the flag. Just standing there hammering on a shock button is not enough. It might be, but then again it might not. It's been my experience that the Rogue is more likely to get the cap after Blinding you than you stopping him, especially with server latency.
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Sap is a valid concern, but they can't do it once you're in combat and a totem at the base of the flag should delay them long enough for the cap to not go off even if they do destroy it.
Blind, cap, Vanish, prevent re-caps while you wait for the cap to turn. It's that simple. You waste time looking for the Rogue who has nothing to do but avoid you, and if the Shaman (or whoever else) turns their attention to the flag, the Rogue can do whatever he feels like out of stealth. It doesn't have to be Sap if he can't get out of combat.
As for totems, you can easily LoS a Searing Totem behind tower walls in AV, I watch that happen all the time. Magma Totem is a problem for the Rogue, but if he disposes of it before he Blinds you (which is what the smart ones will do, and what I was implying), it's a non-issue. Again, it's been my experience that the Rogue is far more likely to get the cap in this manner than not.
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With that said, though, Polymorph is just as bad (12 seconds) and doesn't require the Mage to be anywhere near you or out of combat, and I almost never see them try to pull that off.
Because you can watch Mages walk up the stairs of your tower and prepare accordingly. Polymorph can also be prevented, at least temporarily. Hence why Mages will generally just try to kill you first like normal instead of Polymorphing you (not at all difficult unless you're Resto).
Unless you're constantly laying Magma Totems, you've got no idea the Rogue is there until he opens up on you. And even if you do know he's there, you can't prevent Blind.
Edited, Jan 21st 2008 7:11pm by Gaudion
Quote:
If you have Imp Sap, can't you sap/blind from a farther range (i.e. farther than the range of Magma Totem)?
Pretty sure, yeah. The thing is, after they Sap/Blind they have to kill the totem. It'd be doable if the Rogue is really quick but it's just as likely you'll have enough time to come out of it and stop the cap.
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Don't forget that you also wander around while blinded, changing both your position and the direction you're facing, and they can cap flags out of your LoS by standing on the outside of a tower just within range to click on the flag. Just standing there hammering on a shock button is not enough. It might be, but then again it might not. It's been my experience that the Rogue is more likely to get the cap after Blinding you than you stopping him, especially with server latency.
Well, that's fair. I was thinking more about the Horde towers than anything else, where there'd be nowhere for him to go out of LoS of you if you're in the little hut thing. (Magma would also presumably be rather more useful since you know exactly where he has to be). If the Rogue is tricksy then you might have an issue, but...
Well, let's say you stand directly on the flag. The totem (let's say Searing) is off-center slightly but still in the path of the flag - say you're on the flag, and the totem is on the lip. In order to deal with both of you the Rogue would have to be still in LoS after Blind wears off.
And yeah... Latency might be a bit of a dice-roll, but presumably the Rogue has the same constraints. He needs to Blind, then start the cap. You need to come out of Blind, then shock. If your ping is significantly higher you might be SOL, if it's not you should be fine. I play with a low ping and I can usually stop the cap, so that's probably coloring my answers.
Besides, the OP did mention AB nodes.
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Because you can watch Mages walk up the stairs of your tower and prepare accordingly. Polymorph can also be prevented, at least temporarily. Hence why Mages will generally just try to kill you first like normal instead of Polymorphing you (not at all difficult unless you're Resto).
I've had a Mage invis and Polymorph me when my trinket was down. It kind of sucked. It is, admittedly, far more rare than Rogues capping the flag though.
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