Kara - OT & MT questionsFollow

You can use whatever you want for trash mobs, but I'd personally prefer a actual tank, not a BG/Arena geared out toon off tanking. The evasion is just not there for BG/Arena stuff. Worst case have a Fury or Arms warrior equip all his tanking stuff for OT'ing. Yes, your healers will need to use more mana with the less armor value, but ehh...

Nothing in Kara can't be done with two Prot Warriors tho. I know, we literally run it every week like that. Our other Prot Warrior has good dps gear (mostly epics). Other than Attunment the OT only needs to tank trash mobs, so I'd imagine +resil stuff would work. Again, I'd prefer tanking stuff lol.

You shouldn't really have rage generation problems in that gear. You may have to practice rage management, but that's only because you're properly geared for heroics now, and aren't getting slammed into the ground so much that you have endless rage. Just manage what abilities you use and you should be fine.

If you'll notice, I said a prot paladin would be useless in pulls where he was not tanking. Well, useless is a bit harsh as we just have the prot paladins heal when they aren't offtanking, but that makes it 4 healers, 5 dps, 1 tank, which is kind of healing overkill. Prot paladins do damage if they are tanking. Otherwise, they don't. Prot warriors can slap on dps gear and still do something. Not nearly as much as they would with Imp Slam and MS or BT or whatnot, but something.

As I said, I offtanked Kara in my dps spec. I tanked those little crawly mobs you mentioned, and I tanked them fine. I still have 13k+ hp, 14k+ armor, and 490+ defense in my dps spec if I put on my tank gear. I just don't have nearly as good of threat generation.

I wouldn't turn down a prot warrior if I needed an offtank, but I would take a dps warrior or feral druid over him. I would only take a paladin as offtank if I was truly desperate.

About Anger Management; I had it as well. Until i calculated how much rage it gives me, or better said, how little rage it gave me.

On a typical Moroes fight with my guild it typically takes around or less then 3 minutes. So in the end it gave me 60 rage... which is definately not more then 7k threat in the end on a typical kara tank. If u think about the line: 'let the tank get 5k threat first' and how easy that is to get makes u really think twice about Anger Management.

That would help morghast, and if you read this poopfish (lawl), dropping imp. shield bash and imp. revenge may be helpful for your rage problems. I have imp. revenge in my build atm as well, but I'm about to spec out of it. The reason I had it was because I just recently got back to 70 as of about 2-3 weeks ago, and was being pulled into heroics by old raid buddies that wanted me to tank for them again. As a result of this, I was a green ranger in heroic instances, and tanking with 10k hp in a heroic isn't fun by any stretch of the imagination. So I grabbed imp. revenge for the extra mitigation via constant stuns. However, now that I'm geared enough to honestly head into 25 man content, I'm dropping the talent. I don't need it anymore, and I can find better. On top of that, it looks like you're getting to the point of regularly raid tanking, and imp. revenge and imp. shield bash aren't really useful in that environment.

The 3 talent points freed up can be put to use, in my view, for two talents from a purely rage/threat standpoint. Put one point into AM, because it IS one of the best rage producing talents we have, and the other two into imp. bloodrage. Some love it, some hate it. I personally am a fan of it for one reason. I can pop it at the start of a pull, and have an automatic shield slam. This is helpful, imo, not so much for that initial SS, which would have come ANYWAYS, but because I can ALSO have a thunderclap laid down where the SS would have been before. In the time it would have ordinarily taken me to just get the SS in, I've generated threat on the main DPS target, as well as begun generating AoE threat to cover healing agro. It's something I've found incredibly useful for keeping my healers safe in my experience as a tank.

Ideal OT is Feral Druid in Kara.
2x protection warrior is overkill to be honest.

Of course they will tank all needed but you have 1 less DPS for second half of Kara where DPS does metter more then second tank.

DPS warrior has some problems. In blue gear he can be a bit vulnerable, with mostly Kara gear he is just fine, with raid composed of DPS geared in T5+ he produces too low threat and looses aggro to often.
Still DPS warrior is second best after druid OT for Kara.

He can do great damage when needed and OT all he is assigned to.

****, thats pretty much the exact build I ran with when I was prot, but instead of improved shield wall I had improved def stance I believe and only 2/3 in imp heroic strike.

Morg, Imo improved taunt is worthless because most mobs that matter are going to be immune anyway. I liked last stand plenty. It saved me more than once, its basically a nice sized heal every 7-8 minutes(forget what the actual time is).

Things are going a bit smoother. It helped when one of the officers asked me in Vent to make sure to call out which CC I am breaking next. The OT must have been listening because he quit jumping to break the next CC and waited for me to at least call one out first. He's a capable tank but still learning how to work in a ten-man team where you have to trust your CC people instead of feeling obligated to jump anything that moves (which was one of the complaints about him coming from the CC people.)

We took down Curator last Friday (one-shotted him) and hit Shade for the first time and downed him after a few tries. We hit Prince Fri night as well but after me going down in Phase two on the first two tries and having bad infernals on the second two tries (with some well-geared Healers traded in) we called it a night. We went back in Saturday with a firmer strategy and three Healers and a heal-rotation plan to help the Healers deal with mana including having two Healers solely on me during Phase two and downed him almost easily. We're still having trouble with Illhoof (who we just started trying this week) but we'll figure out what we're doing wrong.

I think some of the Warriors are considering switching to DPS but they are concerned that they won't be able to get into heroics if they aren't prot spec. It wouldn't be a guild problem but many of them PUG as well and it's a lot easier to get into a PUG as a tank than a DPS Warrior.

QFT.

Hell, sometimes it's hard getting into heroics as dps even with my own guild. The fact is that heroics require CC, and we just don't have it. Unless you're running with a well geared pally tank, then we actually shine, AOE DPS at its best.

That's true Morg, but a off tanking dps warrior is much more taxing on the healer, and your DPS is not great in tanking gear which = slower pulls. I've ran a bunch of heroics with just one CC(rogue) and we have finished them, but it takes much longer and the probability to wipe goes up by 50%.

The fact of the matter is people want the best group possible for any instance, specially PUGs, so the cookie cutter party is much more preferred, and were not the dps war is by no means a cookie cutter.

Honestly with the daily system in place now, respeccing isn't that big a deal. I do it pretty regularly for farming. Hell, if they're speccing DPS to OT, they can farm during that span of time as well and get it out of the way. Their farming will go faster, and they'll honestly make the money back that they spent right there and likely make a profit. That way, once the raiding schedule is done, they can spec back to prot the next few days and tank some runs, no harm done. It's what I used to do, and it worked pretty effectively. I didn't even HAVE to respec then, as I was one of the MT's and could have just stayed prot, but I went fury during non-raid time for farming. It was more efficient than you'd think. This was before daily quests were around, they just made it easier.