I've been playing World of Warcraft for 4 months now with my paladin, lvl 55 atm, ive been reading the faqs and topics on this board for 3 months and thought that i had chosen a nice class that suited my playstyle. And now keep hearing from various people (but mostly from a friend of mine who plays a druid) that paladins suck at everything and that is should reroll a shaman or druid. ''Warriors and Druids are better tanks''', ''Priests, Shamans and druids are better healers'', ''Your flash of light does like 2k heal and my lifebloom which is instant does like 39 over 7 seconds and 600 when finished and it can stack three times! reroll!''. '' you have no DPS at all!'' and all this sort of crap. So i started thinking is there actually anything we're better at then other classes?, except for the wide variety of buffs we can cast? And does our mana effecient flash of light suck that hard?
, Zignaestos
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paladins do have the best variety of buffs, which is something paladins of every spec bring to the table.
as far as tanking, healing and dps'ing go, each of the classes that can do any of them have different strengths.
Tanking: you have warriors who are very possibly your best raid boss MT because of their awesome single target threat and their armor and HP. Paladins have the least HP of the three tanking classes and are often considered to be slightly less qualified for raid bosses. However, a smart paladin can still gear up to take down those bosses and unless I'm mistaken, tankadins have tanked every boss there is. On the Other hand, a paladin tank can hold numerous mobs and allows for the fastest trash mob tanking. With a warrior tank, mages and other AOE'ers need to be very careful with their AOE. With a paladin tank, they can let loose and burn down larger groups while the warrior is still marking for the various CC and killing mobs one or 2 at a time. Druids are kind of middle of the road in both areas from my understanding.
Healing: Priests are the most versatile healers. They were designed for one purpose and given a dps tree for variety. Yes, most groups love having a priest healer because that's what they were designed for. However, blizzard gave us different types of fights, and 4 classes that could heal. They have made the desicion to give each healing class different specialties (kinda like they did the tanking classes) and different healing classes are better at different things. While paladins can heal groups fine, their real strength is in single target healing. A healadin spamming FoL on the tank with the occassional HL can pretty much heal forever. Far longer than the other classes can despite not having an easy mana regen like priests and druids have. Best combo would be a Paladin on your MT and one of the other classes topping off your dpsers.
DPS'ing: this is perhaps a paladins weakest area. Even those of us who love Pally dps would agree that paladins are more superior at aspects of Tanking and Healing than we are at DPS. Retribution is a tree for leveling and for those of us (like myself) who just love the paladin class but want to dps. Done correctly we can offer the same dps as other dps classes. Even done correctly, we don't offer any real CC and not much that other dps classes offer that you couldn't get from a healadin or tankadin. Our utility is similar to a boomkin/feral druid - mostly dps with emergency heals, cleanses, and a better ability to take a hit than many other dps classes. Or maybe more similar to a DPS shaman - dps with emergency heals, cleanses, and a variety of powerful buffs.
So are there other classes that can do what paladins can do, but better. Depends on the situation. For tanking large pulls, noone can top a tankadin. For healing the main tank and lasting forever, noone can top a healadin. For healing with high survivability noone can beat a healadin. For DPS'ing with powerful utility, um, other classes may be as good as retadins... but none of them are warriors for the LIGHT!! haha.
as far as tanking, healing and dps'ing go, each of the classes that can do any of them have different strengths.
Tanking: you have warriors who are very possibly your best raid boss MT because of their awesome single target threat and their armor and HP. Paladins have the least HP of the three tanking classes and are often considered to be slightly less qualified for raid bosses. However, a smart paladin can still gear up to take down those bosses and unless I'm mistaken, tankadins have tanked every boss there is. On the Other hand, a paladin tank can hold numerous mobs and allows for the fastest trash mob tanking. With a warrior tank, mages and other AOE'ers need to be very careful with their AOE. With a paladin tank, they can let loose and burn down larger groups while the warrior is still marking for the various CC and killing mobs one or 2 at a time. Druids are kind of middle of the road in both areas from my understanding.
Healing: Priests are the most versatile healers. They were designed for one purpose and given a dps tree for variety. Yes, most groups love having a priest healer because that's what they were designed for. However, blizzard gave us different types of fights, and 4 classes that could heal. They have made the desicion to give each healing class different specialties (kinda like they did the tanking classes) and different healing classes are better at different things. While paladins can heal groups fine, their real strength is in single target healing. A healadin spamming FoL on the tank with the occassional HL can pretty much heal forever. Far longer than the other classes can despite not having an easy mana regen like priests and druids have. Best combo would be a Paladin on your MT and one of the other classes topping off your dpsers.
DPS'ing: this is perhaps a paladins weakest area. Even those of us who love Pally dps would agree that paladins are more superior at aspects of Tanking and Healing than we are at DPS. Retribution is a tree for leveling and for those of us (like myself) who just love the paladin class but want to dps. Done correctly we can offer the same dps as other dps classes. Even done correctly, we don't offer any real CC and not much that other dps classes offer that you couldn't get from a healadin or tankadin. Our utility is similar to a boomkin/feral druid - mostly dps with emergency heals, cleanses, and a better ability to take a hit than many other dps classes. Or maybe more similar to a DPS shaman - dps with emergency heals, cleanses, and a variety of powerful buffs.
So are there other classes that can do what paladins can do, but better. Depends on the situation. For tanking large pulls, noone can top a tankadin. For healing the main tank and lasting forever, noone can top a healadin. For healing with high survivability noone can beat a healadin. For DPS'ing with powerful utility, um, other classes may be as good as retadins... but none of them are warriors for the LIGHT!! haha.
Zignaestos wrote:
''Warriors and Druids are better tanks''
Depends on the circumstance. Our Khara group has a pally tank and a warrior tank. The warrior tanks bosses and the pally tanks trash mobs. Warriors tank single targets well and have abilities like shield wall, disarm, etc. Paladins can hold aggro on 5+ mobs with ease, which is good when you have limited CC(everything in Khara is undead, so no sheep and no sap).
Zignaestos wrote:
''Priests, Shamans and druids are better healers''
Pally is a very strong single target healer and is very efficient. Druids have thier HoTs and Priests/Shamans have their AOE heals. They have different strengths and are all equally viable.
Zignaestos wrote:
''Your flash of light does like 2k heal and my lifebloom which is instant does like 39 over 7 seconds and 600 when finished and it can stack three times! reroll!''.
Keep laughing. When you run out of mana, it'll be my turn to laugh.
Zignaestos wrote:
'' you have no DPS at all!''
I won't try to argue against that. If you want to dps hardcore, go roll something else.
Only a n00b would come to the conclusion that any one class is useless. Or maybe an elitist jack*ss.
Zignaestos wrote:
''Warriors and Druids are better tanks''
Depends on the circumstance. Our Khara group has a pally tank and a warrior tank. The warrior tanks bosses and the pally tanks trash mobs. Warriors tank single targets well and have abilities like shield wall, disarm, etc. Paladins can hold aggro on 5+ mobs with ease, which is good when you have limited CC(everything in Khara is undead, so no sheep and no sap). Plus it goes faster.
Zignaestos wrote:
''Priests, Shamans and druids are better healers''
Pally is a very strong single target healer and is very efficient. Druids have thier HoTs and Priests/Shamans have their AOE heals. They have different strengths and are all equally viable.
Zignaestos wrote:
''Your flash of light does like 2k heal and my lifebloom which is instant does like 39 over 7 seconds and 600 when finished and it can stack three times! reroll!''.
Keep laughing. When you run out of mana, it'll be my turn to laugh.
Zignaestos wrote:
'' you have no DPS at all!''
I won't try to argue against that. If you want to dps hardcore, go roll something else.
Only a n00b would come to the conclusion that any one class is useless. Or maybe an elitist jack*ss.
edit: double post. my bad.
Edited, Jan 16th 2008 3:13pm by BlackoutCC
Edited, Jan 16th 2008 3:13pm by BlackoutCC
This question has been answered sooooo many times. If you really want to learn about a class, then read the FAQ.
If you're lvl 55, then you should know that every class brings its own specific strengths to the table. Your friend's comments are based on ignorance, not on knowledge. I'm sure he feels better about his druid when he makes those comments, so maybe it is a self esteem issue he has. Who knows...
My recommendation - ignore your friend, and continue having fun playing a class you enjoy.
To directly answer your question - my understanding is that Pallys are the best multi-mob tanks, and the best single target healers. That is why you need Paladins.
If you're lvl 55, then you should know that every class brings its own specific strengths to the table. Your friend's comments are based on ignorance, not on knowledge. I'm sure he feels better about his druid when he makes those comments, so maybe it is a self esteem issue he has. Who knows...
My recommendation - ignore your friend, and continue having fun playing a class you enjoy.
To directly answer your question - my understanding is that Pallys are the best multi-mob tanks, and the best single target healers. That is why you need Paladins.
edit: triple post. my internet is screwed up.
Edited, Jan 16th 2008 3:12pm by BlackoutCC
Edited, Jan 16th 2008 3:12pm by BlackoutCC
oh, and Paladins are great for repeating themselves....3 times over....
Just kidding :)
Just kidding :)
Quote:
And now keep hearing from various people (but mostly from a friend of mine who plays a druid) that paladins suck at everything and that is should reroll a shaman or druid.
Your friend is an idiot. It's ok to admit it, everyone has a friend with a learning disability. They are people too. Just give him his pudding-pop, put his football helmet back on, and send him outside to eat horse apples
Paladin shine when using there tools correctly, most other classes are linear & can not adjust for "tricky" moments;
ranged taunts
taunts even on taunt immune bosses
taunts that never "miss"
great spike agro building abilities
very mana efficent
plate while healing
best bubble in-game
group buffs that can be adjusted to fit the situation
mob de-buffs that can be adjusted to fit the situation
Some of the best benifits Paladin have is there great ability to work well with other classes (ie; off tank, back-up healer, ect). Shamman work well in the same asspect, but you will never see shaman tanking higher level stuff. Where paladin gain in tanking ability shaman gain in the DPS ability. Both complement each other well. Same goes for Paladin grouped with a Priest and/or druid.
Kz
ranged taunts
taunts even on taunt immune bosses
taunts that never "miss"
great spike agro building abilities
very mana efficent
plate while healing
best bubble in-game
group buffs that can be adjusted to fit the situation
mob de-buffs that can be adjusted to fit the situation
Some of the best benifits Paladin have is there great ability to work well with other classes (ie; off tank, back-up healer, ect). Shamman work well in the same asspect, but you will never see shaman tanking higher level stuff. Where paladin gain in tanking ability shaman gain in the DPS ability. Both complement each other well. Same goes for Paladin grouped with a Priest and/or druid.
Kz
not to mention, no other class can show off as well as a prot Pally. . .
Prot Pally can keep agro on an infinite number of mobs. the only limiting factor is how to stay alive doing it. giving the right trinket and proper stratigies, you can have so much fun in this game, do so many things that are just down right broken. ^^
how many classes/specs do you know that can solo 20+ lvl 70 mobs all in one pull just to pass the time. . . if only they would respawn faster it may actually be fun if it wasnt so easy.
Prot Pally = Best trash tank / 5 man tank in the game.
Holy Pally = Best single target healer.
Ret Pally = Best . . um . . ::mumble mumble:: . . ! so there!
Edited, Jan 16th 2008 1:01pm by RuenBahamut
Prot Pally can keep agro on an infinite number of mobs. the only limiting factor is how to stay alive doing it. giving the right trinket and proper stratigies, you can have so much fun in this game, do so many things that are just down right broken. ^^
how many classes/specs do you know that can solo 20+ lvl 70 mobs all in one pull just to pass the time. . . if only they would respawn faster it may actually be fun if it wasnt so easy.
Prot Pally = Best trash tank / 5 man tank in the game.
Holy Pally = Best single target healer.
Ret Pally = Best . . um . . ::mumble mumble:: . . ! so there!
Edited, Jan 16th 2008 1:01pm by RuenBahamut
Quote:
''Your flash of light does like 2k heal and my lifebloom which is instant does like 39 over 7 seconds and 600 when finished and it can stack three times! reroll!''.
And then I die waiting for that 7 seconds cause the mob is hitting me for 5k.
Also, anything that I have to wait for isn't instant. The cast may be instant, but the healing isn't.
CapJack of the Seven Seas wrote:
Quote:
''Your flash of light does like 2k heal and my lifebloom which is instant does like 39 over 7 seconds and 600 when finished and it can stack three times! reroll!''.
And then I die waiting for that 7 seconds cause the mob is hitting me for 5k.
Also, anything that I have to wait for isn't instant. The cast may be instant, but the healing isn't.
I can't tell you how many times i've (uselessly or not) blown LoH with a druid healer because my health has gotten down so low that I can't even see the bar anymore (and I've already blown my healthstone and pot because this isn't the first time it's gotten down that far). They are, quite possibly, my LEAST favorite main healers in the game.
YJMark wrote:
oh, and Paladins are great for repeating themselves....3 times over....
Just kidding :)
Just kidding :)
*sits in the corner with dunce cap on* :P
Scholar
21 posts
I like being a pally healer, since you should only need to heal a few people especially with a priest druid or shammy in there, for HoT and chain heals. And buffs are always a bonus
BlackoutCC wrote:
*sits in the corner with dunce cap on* :P
What are the stats on that dunce cap, is it better than what's on the lampshade?
if im with a well geard tank...not an epic'd out tank either, well geared, i rarely use anything more then rank 4 FoL, i just sit and spam it and lose 10mana every 5 seconds. So yea, i guess that does make druids better...
Celcio wrote:
I can't tell you how many times i've (uselessly or not) blown LoH with a druid healer because my health has gotten down so low that I can't even see the bar anymore (and I've already blown my healthstone and pot because this isn't the first time it's gotten down that far). They are, quite possibly, my LEAST favorite main healers in the game.
Yeah my order of favorite healers in heroics goes
Shaman
Paladin
Priest
Warrior
Mage
Warlock
Druid
LMAO! Swap the pally and the priest and swap out the warrior for a rogue (they have better healing sets) and that's my list.
Quote:
Your flash of light does like 2k heal and my lifebloom which is instant does like 39 over 7 seconds and 600 when finished and it can stack three times! reroll!'
Cuz in that 6 seconds those 39 HP will really keep someone alive?
Whoever was talking that sh*t is a sh*t talker, and shouldn't be listened to because it's real hard to get that kind of sh*t out of your ears.
1. Flash of Light is and always has been the most mana-efficient healing spell in the game. Lots of people look at how much it heals and go "aw, stupid" and forget that a good healer starts healing early, and even a decent healadin can virtually spam FoL forever; it's the greatest healing tool I've ever experienced. Plus, Cleanse is awesome.
2. Tankadins are more fun than Warriors. If Warriors are considered better MT's, it's only because Blizzard has designed instances to favour their single-target aggro style. Any paladin tank worth his salt knows when he's useful and when he should be supporting. Plus, watching rogues kill themselves on your spiky shield is lol'erskates.
3. Paladins are super-versatile! They're like the Boy Scouts of Warcraft. Always prepared, and if they aren't prepared, they have a big hammer.
Druids, for some reason, are considered the best healers in the game, which I dispute. I think it's tied between Druids and healadins for the same reason warriors and tankadins are tied - their differences are situational. Sometimes a bunch of stacked HoT's is a good thing, but in the hands of the stupid it's insufficient against burst damage bosses. When a boss knocks off 5000 health in one swing, that tank needs another 5000 health, and he needs it within 2.5 seconds. Druids have very limited burst healing capability. Don't get me wrong - druids make awesome healers. That doesn't mean paladins are bad healers. It just means someone else out there is competing. Competition doesn't equal redundancy.
1. Flash of Light is and always has been the most mana-efficient healing spell in the game. Lots of people look at how much it heals and go "aw, stupid" and forget that a good healer starts healing early, and even a decent healadin can virtually spam FoL forever; it's the greatest healing tool I've ever experienced. Plus, Cleanse is awesome.
2. Tankadins are more fun than Warriors. If Warriors are considered better MT's, it's only because Blizzard has designed instances to favour their single-target aggro style. Any paladin tank worth his salt knows when he's useful and when he should be supporting. Plus, watching rogues kill themselves on your spiky shield is lol'erskates.
3. Paladins are super-versatile! They're like the Boy Scouts of Warcraft. Always prepared, and if they aren't prepared, they have a big hammer.
Druids, for some reason, are considered the best healers in the game, which I dispute. I think it's tied between Druids and healadins for the same reason warriors and tankadins are tied - their differences are situational. Sometimes a bunch of stacked HoT's is a good thing, but in the hands of the stupid it's insufficient against burst damage bosses. When a boss knocks off 5000 health in one swing, that tank needs another 5000 health, and he needs it within 2.5 seconds. Druids have very limited burst healing capability. Don't get me wrong - druids make awesome healers. That doesn't mean paladins are bad healers. It just means someone else out there is competing. Competition doesn't equal redundancy.
Sounds like your mate needs a good bottle and to get stuffed.
Everyone has an ego, only the ignorant will say that any one class is useless in this game. It's designed for each class to play it's roll, or they would have just dumped the pally a long time ago.
Duh.
Everyone has an ego, only the ignorant will say that any one class is useless in this game. It's designed for each class to play it's roll, or they would have just dumped the pally a long time ago.
Duh.
Celcio wrote:
BlackoutCC wrote:
*sits in the corner with dunce cap on* :P
Lol, forum injokes ftw :)
So it looks like in a situation when paladin tank would be good (saaay, no or very lil CC and potencial link situations - which would cover pretty much any 5 man instances and many Karas), it's actually better to have 2 paladins (a prot and a holy) then having 1 warrior + 1 priest, huh?
If true, then there you go... You came from a question about the uses of paladins, and there's a common situation where you can get rid of the 2 classes you friend classified as "the best" of their role.
If true, then there you go... You came from a question about the uses of paladins, and there's a common situation where you can get rid of the 2 classes you friend classified as "the best" of their role.
It basically comes down to a mix of ignorance and personal opinion.
I love people who /LFG prot warrior for DM (or VC if that's how you say it), those 10 points in prot are really going to make a huge difference to someones tanking ability....
Levelling up I met a lot of people that only wanted a priest to heal them, not a druid (paladins didn't heal back then and shaman weren't on alliance side).
Some people think that an ideal group must contain 1x prot warrior, 1x holy priest and 2x cc or you're going to fail.
All tanking/healing classes are capable of performing that role, though as others have mentioned they may shine in a particular area.
Healing wise I've had this debate regarding raiding with a resto druid (me from a holy pala point of view), a little while later this druid went on to have the same discussion with another resto druid, but from the paladin perspective.
Druid healing is fantastic 'on paper', you can keep a massive amount of healing ticking away on your tanks for a reasonable mana cost. However, in practice your tanks won't always be needing that healing (or sometimes they may need more), a slight distraction or lag could make you lose you LB stack, resulting in a loss of time/mana and healing.
Paladins can provide very mana efficient healing, more or less when it's needed and when it's not they can go and do something else.
Tanking I prefer to use my druid as it's simpler, but paladin tanking is a lot of fun, and great for aoe tanking.
Never tried paladin dps, but I do know it takes a lot more effort than other dps classes (in terms of gearing up to do reasonable damage and getting accepted to do it).
Bottom line, if you enjoy paladin then stick with it, don't listen to other's uninformed views of what your character can and can't do. If we all did that then you would only find priests, warriors and mages from 1-70 and then some of those mages would have to magically warp into rogues or warlocks for raiding depending on the encounter.
Variety is the spice of life :)
*A little aside*
Don't get me wrong on druid healing, I think it's very useful and has a place in raiding and 5 mans. I just don't think it's better than paladin healing.
Regarding druids letting health drop low, I tend to find I do that on my druid, I sit there for so long thinking 'Hmm what heal shall I pick?' that I don't realise my tank is nearly dead and it's gonna have to be NS healing touch. The couce between FoL or HL is much simpler (occasionally I'll use a holy shock if I'm moving or it's really urgent (but not LoH urgent).
I love people who /LFG prot warrior for DM (or VC if that's how you say it), those 10 points in prot are really going to make a huge difference to someones tanking ability....
Levelling up I met a lot of people that only wanted a priest to heal them, not a druid (paladins didn't heal back then and shaman weren't on alliance side).
Some people think that an ideal group must contain 1x prot warrior, 1x holy priest and 2x cc or you're going to fail.
All tanking/healing classes are capable of performing that role, though as others have mentioned they may shine in a particular area.
Healing wise I've had this debate regarding raiding with a resto druid (me from a holy pala point of view), a little while later this druid went on to have the same discussion with another resto druid, but from the paladin perspective.
Druid healing is fantastic 'on paper', you can keep a massive amount of healing ticking away on your tanks for a reasonable mana cost. However, in practice your tanks won't always be needing that healing (or sometimes they may need more), a slight distraction or lag could make you lose you LB stack, resulting in a loss of time/mana and healing.
Paladins can provide very mana efficient healing, more or less when it's needed and when it's not they can go and do something else.
Tanking I prefer to use my druid as it's simpler, but paladin tanking is a lot of fun, and great for aoe tanking.
Never tried paladin dps, but I do know it takes a lot more effort than other dps classes (in terms of gearing up to do reasonable damage and getting accepted to do it).
Bottom line, if you enjoy paladin then stick with it, don't listen to other's uninformed views of what your character can and can't do. If we all did that then you would only find priests, warriors and mages from 1-70 and then some of those mages would have to magically warp into rogues or warlocks for raiding depending on the encounter.
Variety is the spice of life :)
*A little aside*
Don't get me wrong on druid healing, I think it's very useful and has a place in raiding and 5 mans. I just don't think it's better than paladin healing.
Regarding druids letting health drop low, I tend to find I do that on my druid, I sit there for so long thinking 'Hmm what heal shall I pick?' that I don't realise my tank is nearly dead and it's gonna have to be NS healing touch. The couce between FoL or HL is much simpler (occasionally I'll use a holy shock if I'm moving or it's really urgent (but not LoH urgent).
I have a much more fundamental question which needs immediate answers.
Why is it always the brand new first post accounts who have all those friends who tell them just how bad paladins are? I posted about 400 posts in the year since I rolled my belfadin, and oddly enough, I never got any cause to post something like this.
Edited, Jan 17th 2008 1:47pm by Alastaironsiren
Why is it always the brand new first post accounts who have all those friends who tell them just how bad paladins are? I posted about 400 posts in the year since I rolled my belfadin, and oddly enough, I never got any cause to post something like this.
Edited, Jan 17th 2008 1:47pm by Alastaironsiren
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