Im making a toon for pvp and im stuck between a pally and a priest. Now im making the class for pvp healing mainly and i know that they are both really good at it.right? But when i get tired of it i dont want to gimp myself by switching speccs and not being able to do anything. Now for a damage tree what do u think would be better in pvp? Ret or shadow? Or really just in general which one would you choose? Im open to all hints even open to extra info.
thx,
bacckstabb
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Ret Paladin of Shadow Priest?Follow
Shadow Priest by a mile. They require slightly more specialized teams to truly excel in the arena, but in general they still melt face.
That is exactly what you will be doing if you roll a Pally and expect to eventually switch to Ret.
Quote:
... when i get tired of it i dont want to gimp myself by switching speccs and not being able to do anything.
That is exactly what you will be doing if you roll a Pally and expect to eventually switch to Ret.
Real arena priests spec Disc or go home.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Priests overall do better in pvp than paladins, but for pvp healing, paladins are the way. What with a bucket of hit points covered in plate n' all that. Priests just always seemed a little squishy to me.
Most of the priests who I know that do arena are disc. That's all I say on that, I don't know jack about priests.
Most of the priests who I know that do arena are disc. That's all I say on that, I don't know jack about priests.
bacckstabbu wrote:
Im making a toon for pvp and im stuck between a pally and a priest. Now im making the class for pvp healing mainly and i know that they are both really good at it.right? But when i get tired of it i dont want to gimp myself by switching speccs and not being able to do anything. Now for a damage tree what do u think would be better in pvp? Ret or shadow? Or really just in general which one would you choose? Im open to all hints even open to extra info.
thx,
bacckstabb
thx,
bacckstabb
to be honest, i've never had a shadow priest beat me in dps on my ret, but when you show damage+healing they usually are a good margin ahead. that healing is the one reason i'd recommend priest. played right they 'should' beat a pally in healing (they rarely beat my holy pally, but they definitely have better tools) when they're holy, and when they're shadow they're close to ret in dps but also still making a difference with healing.
i need to level my priest eventually, but thats a long ways away. for now i'll continue to have my fun as Ret.
toolofjesus wrote:
to be honest, i've never had a shadow priest beat me in dps on my ret, but when you show damage+healing they usually are a good margin ahead. that healing is the one reason i'd recommend priest. played right they 'should' beat a pally in healing (they rarely beat my holy pally, but they definitely have better tools) when they're holy, and when they're shadow they're close to ret in dps but also still making a difference with healing.
A Shadow Priest shouldn't be even remotely near a Ret Pally in damage done unless his gear is much worse, or he's a terrible player and the Paladin is an excellent player. Shadow Priests can put out some ridiculous damage if they're geared and played well.
That said, there are some bad ones out there. I've smoked the Shadow Priest in my guild on two consecutive Kara runs, and my gear is terribad.
this is a tough one. i've seen a SP with mostly crafted pieces and pots(+1200 shadow) come to Kara and smoke me and rogue on trash mob dps. he controlled his threat pretty well but his mana was an issue on boss fights even with JoW up.
for pvp SPs have so many tricks but they can be very squishy.
to ToJ: swstats over damagemeters.
for pvp SPs have so many tricks but they can be very squishy.
to ToJ: swstats over damagemeters.
tommyguns wrote:
to ToJ: swstats over damagemeters.
yeah, i used to use damagemeters. i've been using recount lately. too many different meters. recount is definitely better than damagemeters except that i liked how i could show damage+healing on damagemeters
and yeah, Gaudion, people say that about all dps classes... but my ret still out dps's them. and i don't have a single epic yet, but i beat out many that have several epics.
just so i know does anyone know where's a good place to put screen shots to link them here? i realize i talk a lot but never show anything to back up what i say.... haha.
lol screenshots. photobucket.com is my new friend
toolofjesus wrote:
and yeah, Gaudion, people say that about all dps classes... but my ret still out dps's them. and i don't have a single epic yet, but i beat out many that have several epics.
Yeah, toolofjesus, all Retribution Paladins say that... but I still have yet to see one place higher than third on a five-man damage meter, and most guilds/raids won't even take them.
Gaudion wrote:
toolofjesus wrote:
and yeah, Gaudion, people say that about all dps classes... but my ret still out dps's them. and i don't have a single epic yet, but i beat out many that have several epics.
Yeah, toolofjesus, all Retribution Paladins say that... but I still have yet to see one place higher than third on a five-man damage meter, and most guilds/raids won't even take them.
haha, you say that often. i am rarely 3rd. at worst i'm second, like i was last night. last night i was in heroic mech with a gruul greared lock and a half epic'd boomkin. can't lie, it felt like the lock was almost double my dps (according to recount i had about 500 and the lock had about 900 average through the instance), but i stayed comfortably ahead of the boomkin. and i did about 10 times as much cleansing as the healer. more typically though, i'm first or a very close second. i'll check out photobucket and see about getting some screenshots up. i know they don't prove everything 100% but inless you're on kael'thas its the only way i can show it...
Like I said in another post... I judge things the same way The Bureau does: I run the numbers.
Which is worse? A bad player with a good spec or a bad player with a bad spec? Which is better? A good player with a bad spec or a good player with a good spec? Which is better still? Class that has gear that actually works for it? Or a class that Blizzard, after designing the God damned game for three years, has no idea how to make gear for themselves?
Even if you take things as subjective as player skill into the equation, the bottom line is you are still likely to see far worse Ret Pallies than you are any other DPS class.
EDIT: Even if, for argument's sake, the OP could turn out a perfectly acceptable Ret Pally, he did ask which would be better. And objectively, I don't think even you Ret Pallies would argue that, unless he's got some specific attatchement to the Paladin class, a Shadow Priest would be better. Most end-game guilds won't touch Ret Pallies with 39 and 1/2 inch pole, let alone invite them to heroics, raids, or PvP teams. Shadow Priests, on the other hand, are welcome in all three.
Plan to play Retribution if you want to play a Paladin first, and pick your spec second. If you are objectively trying to achieve a desired result--in this case, a class that can switch back and forth between a healing spec and a solid DPS spec--go with Priest.
Edited, Jan 15th 2008 6:44pm by Gaudion
Which is worse? A bad player with a good spec or a bad player with a bad spec? Which is better? A good player with a bad spec or a good player with a good spec? Which is better still? Class that has gear that actually works for it? Or a class that Blizzard, after designing the God damned game for three years, has no idea how to make gear for themselves?
Even if you take things as subjective as player skill into the equation, the bottom line is you are still likely to see far worse Ret Pallies than you are any other DPS class.
EDIT: Even if, for argument's sake, the OP could turn out a perfectly acceptable Ret Pally, he did ask which would be better. And objectively, I don't think even you Ret Pallies would argue that, unless he's got some specific attatchement to the Paladin class, a Shadow Priest would be better. Most end-game guilds won't touch Ret Pallies with 39 and 1/2 inch pole, let alone invite them to heroics, raids, or PvP teams. Shadow Priests, on the other hand, are welcome in all three.
Plan to play Retribution if you want to play a Paladin first, and pick your spec second. If you are objectively trying to achieve a desired result--in this case, a class that can switch back and forth between a healing spec and a solid DPS spec--go with Priest.
Edited, Jan 15th 2008 6:44pm by Gaudion
Firstly DPS is not the alpha and omega of PvP. Sub vs Comb rogues will prove that point, MS vs Fury warriors as well.
But but but "Ret has utility"! A CC that can be cleansed, buffs that can be purged, a BoP that can be shot off, and a Divine Shield that can be mass dispelled. But hey, least you have your crit dependant dps in a world of Resilience gear /smirk. I'd still take a MS warrior any day over a Ret Pally.
Shadowpriest is no longer the pvp spec of choice, at least for Arena for priests anymore. Disc, the mana burn is one of the most insanely powerful tools in PvP at the moment, throw in some other neat little tricks like power infusion and pain suppression and you have a class that flat out melts face like no Shadowpriest or Ret pally could hope to attain in PvP.
Choose ret pally or SP (less you are strictly BG or 2v2ing with a lock) and you might as well roll a fire mage for PvP.
But but but "Ret has utility"! A CC that can be cleansed, buffs that can be purged, a BoP that can be shot off, and a Divine Shield that can be mass dispelled. But hey, least you have your crit dependant dps in a world of Resilience gear /smirk. I'd still take a MS warrior any day over a Ret Pally.
Shadowpriest is no longer the pvp spec of choice, at least for Arena for priests anymore. Disc, the mana burn is one of the most insanely powerful tools in PvP at the moment, throw in some other neat little tricks like power infusion and pain suppression and you have a class that flat out melts face like no Shadowpriest or Ret pally could hope to attain in PvP.
Choose ret pally or SP (less you are strictly BG or 2v2ing with a lock) and you might as well roll a fire mage for PvP.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Oh and if you want to heal as Ret or Shadow you arent going to be able too.
Ret has no mana pool, and its heals are terribly inefficient. Worse when your mana is gone and wasted on a heal you dps like an amputee.
Shadowpriest has to break form to heal, which ain't going to happen, though you do have the off set of your damage healing the group, but in PvP thats kind of meh anyways.
Disc is still winning out there
Ret has no mana pool, and its heals are terribly inefficient. Worse when your mana is gone and wasted on a heal you dps like an amputee.
Shadowpriest has to break form to heal, which ain't going to happen, though you do have the off set of your damage healing the group, but in PvP thats kind of meh anyways.
Disc is still winning out there
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Lol thank you for all of your responses. I think i will make a priest since that seems to be the better choice. Although im still not completly sold since i have seem some vids where pallies do some nice burst. Im also worried about getting bored with healing. Can priest still do good dmg in bg's and arena not shadow?
bacckstabbu wrote:
Lol thank you for all of your responses. I think i will make a priest since that seems to be the better choice. Although im still not completly sold since i have seem some vids where pallies do some nice burst. Im also worried about getting bored with healing. Can priest still do good dmg in bg's and arena not shadow?
They can't do damage per say. You can completely cripple mana users with good use of Mana Burn though.
Gaudion wrote:
bacckstabbu wrote:
Lol thank you for all of your responses. I think i will make a priest since that seems to be the better choice. Although im still not completly sold since i have seem some vids where pallies do some nice burst. Im also worried about getting bored with healing. Can priest still do good dmg in bg's and arena not shadow?
They can't do damage per say. You can completely cripple mana users with good use of Mana Burn though.
Aint it the troof. Mana burn is as good as killing a person with a mana bar. If we dont kill the priest in under 30 seconds my 10k mana is gone and I am left bandaging my dps for heals.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Quote:
They can't do damage per say. You can completely cripple mana users with good use of Mana Burn though.
there aren't many classes and specs that become totally cripple from mana burn. i would wager to say ONLY ret pallies and maybe enh shammies. but a shammy will shock you if he sees you trying that foolishness. also, unless you're in BG a disc priest is probably better off healing rather than trying to burn 6k off a ret pally(and spiritual attunement ftw).
btw, ret judgements now return 80% of the seals mana. meaning i can run around with SoC for 25 secs while gaining spirit regen and get mana when i judge it...resulting in positive mana gain.
L2LOS abuse. Kills disc-priests.
I would like to hand out some cluepons to the last two posters, if I may.
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