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I in no way support what Blizz did here, but there may be reasons for the decision we aren’t privy to. For example, I still have the Death Ravager from the Draenei starting area that was tanked when TBC first came out. They were never able to fix the problem of it not working in PVP. I don’t have the wolf, but I do see complaints about animation. I realize it is hard to believe that if we can write programs to send robots to collect rocks on Mars (and work for 6 years), why they can’t fix what seams like simple problems like this. But the truth is, some times it can’t be fixed and the only solution is to nerf it.
Fix the animation? Why? The wolf worked fine, no other bugs, and the motion didn't impede its movement iirc.
I dont know why, but to change their minds so quickly and unannounced, I personally think its a Croc of Sh**. I personaly want a Zevra for a pet.
Blizz always stealth nerfs stuff, and they ruin the games to. Anyone remember that one D2 patch? How about W3?
"sloshot" wrote:
If some high level hunter is willing to spend mucho gold and time and energy and effort to achieve this: LET THEM. It proves that 'special and unique' pets have a place in the game. They've standardized pets and some people have demonstrated that they will go to EXTREME's to get a unique pet.
Amen. I had a 30 hunter on my old server who had Takk back when his speed wasn't nerfed. After his nerf, the standardizing of all pets was implemented, no more special abilities for anyone. And now, lets get rid of another unique pet.
Peek into the future:
"Every Hunter will have barrens lions, males only. They will all have the same name of "Cat". They will have bite, claw and growl. That is all. Any attempts to make your pet more unique than anyone else's pet will have your account looked into and face possible suspension."
Personally, I never had any desire to tame Grimtotem... I'm not even sure where to go to find it, or what level it is. But I do agree that Blizzard messed up here by making them non-trainable... especially because it was unannounced.
So many players have devoted so much time and patience playing the game; it's understandable that they'd like to be able to make their toons stand out or unique. Sure it might not have been intended, but it was very underhanded to change this without notice, especially after an official post stating that they'd let the "bug" remain.
What's really beginning to irk me about Blizzard's policies are the amount of significant undocumented changes that they try to slip in. Most significant for me was the trapping mechanic that was changed in 2.3. Although the change was reverted back in 2.3.2, it was still a major undocumented change and took pages and pages of angry posts on numerous forums for Blizzard to change their minds.
I know that in the end, if we really hate it that much, we can stop playing. But many of us have invested too much time to easily abandon our toons.
So many players have devoted so much time and patience playing the game; it's understandable that they'd like to be able to make their toons stand out or unique. Sure it might not have been intended, but it was very underhanded to change this without notice, especially after an official post stating that they'd let the "bug" remain.
What's really beginning to irk me about Blizzard's policies are the amount of significant undocumented changes that they try to slip in. Most significant for me was the trapping mechanic that was changed in 2.3. Although the change was reverted back in 2.3.2, it was still a major undocumented change and took pages and pages of angry posts on numerous forums for Blizzard to change their minds.
I know that in the end, if we really hate it that much, we can stop playing. But many of us have invested too much time to easily abandon our toons.
Quote:
Blizz always stealth nerfs stuff, and they ruin the games to. Anyone remember that one D2 patch? How about W3?
Yup Yuppley, are you talking about D2 1.10? (Never played W3). The patch that made about 60%+ of the D2 population quit within a week?
#34REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 1:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hey guys do you hear that?... I think its the world smallest violin playing.
For me there are two issues here.
1) Removing the ghost wolf as a tamable pet
2) The way Blizzard chose to accomplish this removal
As far as the first issue is concerned, I don’t see it as being as big of a deal as the second issue. I see no reason to remove the wolf from the game. And I think the game is less fun without it. But as with many other decisions on Blizzard’s part that I don’t agree with, I can learn to live with it.
What has caused me to lose much of my respect for Blizzard is the path they chose to take to accomplish their end. An official Blizzard representative told us that taming this pet was fine with them. Once Blizzard gave the ghost wolf its seal of approval they took on a certain amount of responsibility for it. They raised the hopes of everyone who found that pet appealing. And they gave their approval for spending hundreds of gold for the items needed to tame it. To then make the wolf untamable without any notice is, in my opinion, a major betrayal of our trust. If Blizzard had given a month or two warning before restricting this pet I would have been saddened, but I wouldn’t be feeling betrayed.
I just read this blue quote and I don’t find it particularly helpful. In other words, “We have stabbed you in the back, but we would like to apologize for any pain or blood stains this may have caused.â€
Again, I feel there has to be a reason beyond the BS they have posted that prompted this change. I would very much like to know what that reason is.
1) Removing the ghost wolf as a tamable pet
2) The way Blizzard chose to accomplish this removal
As far as the first issue is concerned, I don’t see it as being as big of a deal as the second issue. I see no reason to remove the wolf from the game. And I think the game is less fun without it. But as with many other decisions on Blizzard’s part that I don’t agree with, I can learn to live with it.
What has caused me to lose much of my respect for Blizzard is the path they chose to take to accomplish their end. An official Blizzard representative told us that taming this pet was fine with them. Once Blizzard gave the ghost wolf its seal of approval they took on a certain amount of responsibility for it. They raised the hopes of everyone who found that pet appealing. And they gave their approval for spending hundreds of gold for the items needed to tame it. To then make the wolf untamable without any notice is, in my opinion, a major betrayal of our trust. If Blizzard had given a month or two warning before restricting this pet I would have been saddened, but I wouldn’t be feeling betrayed.
Issuntril wrote:
We do appreciate that this is inconsistent with information posted previously on the Grimtotem Spirit Guide, and we apologise for any confusion caused.
I just read this blue quote and I don’t find it particularly helpful. In other words, “We have stabbed you in the back, but we would like to apologize for any pain or blood stains this may have caused.â€
Again, I feel there has to be a reason beyond the BS they have posted that prompted this change. I would very much like to know what that reason is.
Yes skribs, thats the one. My bro played SC "professionally" for a while, I don't want to say much more about that, as X17 has a wee-little grudge against him, but, he played War 3 and D2 too, and when patches like that happen, whole families (not literally) of gamers kind of start disliking the company.
Sure, every game that Blizz has put out has been fantastic, pushed so long past the release date to make them perfect, to perfect the balancing, but putting major patches into a game in the middle of their lifespan is uncalled for.
If you revamp the game mechanics, and **** hardcore people off, because of the new (retarded?) little (big?) way that you want people to play the game, your going to loose your player-base.
Edited, Jan 15th 2008 5:06pm by Yuppley
Sure, every game that Blizz has put out has been fantastic, pushed so long past the release date to make them perfect, to perfect the balancing, but putting major patches into a game in the middle of their lifespan is uncalled for.
If you revamp the game mechanics, and **** hardcore people off, because of the new (retarded?) little (big?) way that you want people to play the game, your going to loose your player-base.
Edited, Jan 15th 2008 5:06pm by Yuppley
It really is no mystery as to why they decided to take this road. They found an issue with the pet, and instead of paying artists to fix it, or even change the mob to "Untameable," they took the cheap route, and unlcicked the ability on the mob who summons it. It was all about their money.
And no, They didn't lose any subscriptions over this. They lose subscriptions every day, and their numbers after that day probably didn't budge at all.
And no, They didn't lose any subscriptions over this. They lose subscriptions every day, and their numbers after that day probably didn't budge at all.
What was the W3 patch? Like what did it do?
I agree with others that the actual act of making the wolf untameable isn't that big of a deal.
But stealth-nerfing it, that is low. Seriously, we pay the monthlies, we fill their wages, and they go and stab us in the back. It is a betrayal of trust.
Also the pet didn't give others an "unfair" advantage, all it did was look cool.
This is going to extremes but here it goes.
What is stopping Bliz from reseting whole servers, wiping levels, gear, etc.
What is stopping Bliz from balencing classes so far that there are no different classes.
What is stopping Bliz from making all end game raids 5-man-able so every one can play?
I agree with others that the actual act of making the wolf untameable isn't that big of a deal.
But stealth-nerfing it, that is low. Seriously, we pay the monthlies, we fill their wages, and they go and stab us in the back. It is a betrayal of trust.
Also the pet didn't give others an "unfair" advantage, all it did was look cool.
This is going to extremes but here it goes.
What is stopping Bliz from reseting whole servers, wiping levels, gear, etc.
What is stopping Bliz from balencing classes so far that there are no different classes.
What is stopping Bliz from making all end game raids 5-man-able so every one can play?
#39REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 15 2008 at 4:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I find it funny that everyone is whining about us loosing a pet that was never meant to be tamed in the first place and was an oversight on the part of blizzard in the first place, nor should hunters who are affiliated with nature be able to control an undead pet. You guys are just complaining that bliz took away your shiny toy that you didn’t want, but if you did want, you could get. Its been around two months since we first foundout about the wolf, if you really wanted it you would have tamed one by now. Bliz is a big company, obviously someone jumped the gun saying they wouldnt change it and was overruled by someone higher or some sort of commite.
Well, nerfing tower rushes was pretty low. After that, people would just creep a bunch and harass with Demon Hunters so that they leveled super quick, then proceed to destroy everything. When TFT came out, same thing was happening with Wardens, but humans could counter easily with Footmen (w/ defend vs archers, and hero vs huntarz) and teching up to get Spell Breakers, because Sinister Strike would destroy heroes, and it could be taken off (Dryads w/ abolish magic didn't work iirc).
Then Blizz went D2 style and completely messed up the game mechanics, in the patch that they introduced the 2 newer neutral heroes.
EDIT: Dalaran, if you would care to read the other posts, they are specifically implying that they are upset about the removal of the ability to tame the wolf, but are more concerned about how Blizzard "betrayed" their customers.
Edited, Jan 15th 2008 7:21pm by Yuppley
Then Blizz went D2 style and completely messed up the game mechanics, in the patch that they introduced the 2 newer neutral heroes.
EDIT: Dalaran, if you would care to read the other posts, they are specifically implying that they are upset about the removal of the ability to tame the wolf, but are more concerned about how Blizzard "betrayed" their customers.
Edited, Jan 15th 2008 7:21pm by Yuppley
5 posts
My subscription is done...one last nail in the coffin for me.
I refuse to pay monthly fees for a game whose GMs have become PR guys instead of voices for the player community. 'Backstabbing' is a little childish, but the move to stealth-nerf the pet was clearly underhanded and done to avoid immediate player backlash. I really can't trust how they manage the player-world anymore, but Blizzard will simply ignore customer criticisms knowing that everyone will still play.
Hunters are my class, always have been...and like a lot of people it's for the pets. And that is where Blizzard has repeatedly failed me as a customer. They have a broken pet system that favors me choosing between three dps critters while a chunk of families are completely ignored (Want to tame Stag). A fun pet is found that is challenging (almost a player-created epic quest) but unintentional...some bugs in movement are probably harder to fix than if they just wipe the pet and let the forums whine for a few threads, so that is how they rectify it.
I'm not surprised, really, the wolf itself isn't the issue for me...but shoddy upkeep/development/game-management like this is absolutely not worth a monthly fee.
I'll lurk to see if anything else comes from this snafu...what happens with WotLK...if they ever release a WoW2, but until then I'm too disappointed to let them have my money.
This is a continuation of historically ****-poor customer service from Blizzard for me, but the community is almost as disappointing in it's complacency.
I refuse to pay monthly fees for a game whose GMs have become PR guys instead of voices for the player community. 'Backstabbing' is a little childish, but the move to stealth-nerf the pet was clearly underhanded and done to avoid immediate player backlash. I really can't trust how they manage the player-world anymore, but Blizzard will simply ignore customer criticisms knowing that everyone will still play.
Hunters are my class, always have been...and like a lot of people it's for the pets. And that is where Blizzard has repeatedly failed me as a customer. They have a broken pet system that favors me choosing between three dps critters while a chunk of families are completely ignored (Want to tame Stag). A fun pet is found that is challenging (almost a player-created epic quest) but unintentional...some bugs in movement are probably harder to fix than if they just wipe the pet and let the forums whine for a few threads, so that is how they rectify it.
I'm not surprised, really, the wolf itself isn't the issue for me...but shoddy upkeep/development/game-management like this is absolutely not worth a monthly fee.
I'll lurk to see if anything else comes from this snafu...what happens with WotLK...if they ever release a WoW2, but until then I'm too disappointed to let them have my money.
This is a continuation of historically ****-poor customer service from Blizzard for me, but the community is almost as disappointing in it's complacency.
I think a lot of the reason most people dont want to stop paying is because more than just a game, the monthly payments connect them with people they very much enjoy spending virtual time with. I'm not just talking about the RP aspect of it, but of the three guilds I'm in accross three different servers, I'd only talk to 2 of the people still if I left wow. So it's more like a phone or internet bill at that point.
Yes, the stealth nerf pisses us off. And yes the customer service could be better. But in all honesty, this alone isn't going to make most people stop playing when stopping also means losing a lot of friends. Not like these people will disown you if you quit, but simply wont have the means to talk to you anymore. I know some guilds have each other's aim, msn, email, etc...but others dont. Back to the topic of "this alone isn't going to make most people quit," I am hinting that if blizzard continues in this fashion people will quit. When the game becomes a "**** blizzard for this, **** the devs for that" type of game, then people will probably quit. But for now, I think people are willing to give a second chance as long as the following does not take place:
*While this was a backstab, it didnt really have any gameplay issues aside from the gold and the meta gem. Thus, it was like being stabbed in the back with a needle, not like being stabbed in the back with a K-bar. If blizzard were, however, to stealth-nerf hunters in a much more gameplay-related aspect (especially if they say it will remain the same) I can see people getting very angry. Or if they dont refund people like North.
Yes, the stealth nerf pisses us off. And yes the customer service could be better. But in all honesty, this alone isn't going to make most people stop playing when stopping also means losing a lot of friends. Not like these people will disown you if you quit, but simply wont have the means to talk to you anymore. I know some guilds have each other's aim, msn, email, etc...but others dont. Back to the topic of "this alone isn't going to make most people quit," I am hinting that if blizzard continues in this fashion people will quit. When the game becomes a "**** blizzard for this, **** the devs for that" type of game, then people will probably quit. But for now, I think people are willing to give a second chance as long as the following does not take place:
*While this was a backstab, it didnt really have any gameplay issues aside from the gold and the meta gem. Thus, it was like being stabbed in the back with a needle, not like being stabbed in the back with a K-bar. If blizzard were, however, to stealth-nerf hunters in a much more gameplay-related aspect (especially if they say it will remain the same) I can see people getting very angry. Or if they dont refund people like North.
Some sort of peace offering in the next patch for hunters maybe?
I certainly expect it especially after seeing the comments left on the official boards, this has not been taken well. Lets hope they do come back to us with their tails between theirs legs next patch!
I certainly expect it especially after seeing the comments left on the official boards, this has not been taken well. Lets hope they do come back to us with their tails between theirs legs next patch!
They fixed our traps pretty fast I remember that.
DalaranCaine wrote:
nor should hunters who are affiliated with nature be able to control an undead pet.
And the fact that hunters could already, and still can, tame undead and plague-ridden animals doesn't squash that retarded avenue of reasoning?
That argument is dumb. And it's already been stated many times that making the wolf untameable isn't the major problem. It's doing it without warning, after strictly saying that it will remain tameable.
Quote:
Bliz is a big company, obviously someone jumped the gun saying they wouldnt change it and was overruled by someone higher or some sort of commite.
Are you serious? If someone who is speaking for the company can spout their own ideas, without company approval, and be ignored - then you don't make them a mouthpiece for your company. That Blizzard rep will have had company backing at the time.
It's not a case of someone jumping the gun. It's a case of the developers saying one thing and believing it... And then changing their minds without sending a note to the player base to say that the decision has been changed. The change is one thing; the lack of warning that the change will be made is the sh*tty part.
Got myself a new sig. Testing it here because it's relevant.
skribs wrote:
They fixed our traps pretty fast I remember that.
No. They took a few days to tell us that they were changing it back, but then made us wait for several weeks to fix something that easily could have been a hotfix.
well the game is full of part finished stuff they have not got around to , we all know places or mobs like that , as an example the naga in the seaside cave in tanaris ?
the pets they normalised a few years ago and way back then said they would give each family a unique ability ?
well lets think about that ?
boars have charge , fine thats ok
wolves have howl ? well thats a bit weak anyway at high level
birds and bats have screech , so not unique
cats apart from prowl ? not that special to me
birds/bats get screech , good but not unique
bears nothing unique not even dash
ravagers get nothing that boars do not have
dragonhawks yes at high level are ok with fire breath
gorillas get thunderstomp but a long cooldown so not good
scorpids get poison but recently got nerfed a bit
spiders have nothing special yet in-game have a few special tricks
warp-stalkers with warp , yes special and amusing
turtle , yes i know shell shield and its stats make it a good tank but i just do not like it
lets face it they cannot even give each family any unique abilities , so taking away a unique looking pet that many hunters would like falls well into their attitude and the way they work
instead of giving each pet family something unique they target something just because many hunters would like one and of course thats not allowed is it ?
i for one would not have tried to tame that wolf because it has nothing special apart from looks to me , but i would not have stopped others from getting one as a vanity pet
lets face it at high level we see boars/cats/ravagers a few wolves and rarely any other family being used
and it is about time the game makers gave each pet family something unique so that all pet families get used at high level ,
i have tried all pets apart from the turtle and would like to have more special abilitys pets , then we may see more famils of pets being used
the pets they normalised a few years ago and way back then said they would give each family a unique ability ?
well lets think about that ?
boars have charge , fine thats ok
wolves have howl ? well thats a bit weak anyway at high level
birds and bats have screech , so not unique
cats apart from prowl ? not that special to me
birds/bats get screech , good but not unique
bears nothing unique not even dash
ravagers get nothing that boars do not have
dragonhawks yes at high level are ok with fire breath
gorillas get thunderstomp but a long cooldown so not good
scorpids get poison but recently got nerfed a bit
spiders have nothing special yet in-game have a few special tricks
warp-stalkers with warp , yes special and amusing
turtle , yes i know shell shield and its stats make it a good tank but i just do not like it
lets face it they cannot even give each family any unique abilities , so taking away a unique looking pet that many hunters would like falls well into their attitude and the way they work
instead of giving each pet family something unique they target something just because many hunters would like one and of course thats not allowed is it ?
i for one would not have tried to tame that wolf because it has nothing special apart from looks to me , but i would not have stopped others from getting one as a vanity pet
lets face it at high level we see boars/cats/ravagers a few wolves and rarely any other family being used
and it is about time the game makers gave each pet family something unique so that all pet families get used at high level ,
i have tried all pets apart from the turtle and would like to have more special abilitys pets , then we may see more famils of pets being used
Let's face it, it is all about the dollars, euros, yens whatever. Something needs to be fixed (animation, LOUSIEST of all reasons) or deleted. Fixed means it takes time from developing WotLK. WotLK is needed to keep players binded to them (read: paying) as when time passes, people get bored with current content and start looking for other MMORPGs. Thus WotLK needs to be out as fast as possibly can and anything interfering with that will be eliminated.
Possibly loosing a few hunters vs almost certainly loosing bored players to competing companies? Easy choice. Bucks bucks bucks, it is said but true. Blizzard = big bucks = money management over the backs of a few pissed hunters.
Unfortunately. Makes me very sad too. Cannot say ***** Blizz because they keep creating games I ALL love immensely, but let's say Bad, bad, naughty Blizz! /downrank
Possibly loosing a few hunters vs almost certainly loosing bored players to competing companies? Easy choice. Bucks bucks bucks, it is said but true. Blizzard = big bucks = money management over the backs of a few pissed hunters.
Unfortunately. Makes me very sad too. Cannot say ***** Blizz because they keep creating games I ALL love immensely, but let's say Bad, bad, naughty Blizz! /downrank
It wasnt like the Hunter community was down Blizz's throat demanding the animation be fixed. Hell I wouldn't care if they never did. I'd rather have a bugged ghost than no ghost.
Somewhat bizzarely, it does have a run animation, just that players don't move fast enough to set it off. Train it with dash and it runs like a normal wolf.
Somewhat bizzarely, it does have a run animation, just that players don't move fast enough to set it off. Train it with dash and it runs like a normal wolf.
This is garbage! I am sitting where North is. This week my Shaman friend said he would be on with my other priest friend and we were suppose to go after this bad boy. Obviously not gonna happen now...
I am also going to contact Blizz regarding my gem that has no point on even being on a hunter now other than making it easier to tame pets like gutripper and things of that nature... BAH!
I am also going to contact Blizz regarding my gem that has no point on even being on a hunter now other than making it easier to tame pets like gutripper and things of that nature... BAH!
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