Frost or fire ..?Follow

I leveled frost and really enjoyed it but have respecced to fire for raiding.

Here is my take on this:

Both work well for questing, fire will 'normally' kill faster, that is until you start getting a lot of frostbite procs + shatter crits (etc) that help out the frost grinding speed. Then again, frost has the wonderful ability to AoE grind, which has sort of gone by the wayside now that they decreased the time to level and increased the XP gains by questing, but some people still enjoy doing it.

So either one, frost or fire, will still be alright at both soloing and stuff? I just dont want to get alot into fire and then see that it actually takes ages to do quests which with frost could be really easy.

Just a note - the amount of time you'll have to pull more than 2 mobs will be rare (i.e. less than 1%). So you may not want to spec around those rare instances.

Just something to think about before you get pulled in by the lure of frost :) I got sucked into frost for that exact reason, and found that I didn't have to.

There's efficient leveling, and there's fast leveling. They aren't always the same thing. Hunters are some of the most efficent levelers in the game, but my hunter will never know it, because she never gets past my login screen.

Any class and spec can level solo to 70. One spec might be more efficient than another, but that won't make that character a faster leveler than the one you play every day because you love it. Pick the spec that's most fun for you, and then learn how to quest with it effectively.

Especially when it comes to frost vs. fire with a mage, because either answer works. Ask on these forums which is "the leveling spec" and experienced mages will be divided in their answers. Try that over on the pally forums, for example, and see if you get the same result. :)

Agreed. And the one thing to point out is that at lower levels, which I assume you are right now, it can be tedious with either spec until you start getting a little deeper into one of the trees. If you are below 20, well for me, fire or frost didn't offer a whole lot and I died alot. After 20, I started playing with someone else, and stuck with it, now he is 61. I leveled him fire and man it made such a huge difference! Tried frost at 40 or so, and stuck with it for a few levels, as these things take some getting used to before you can make a sound decision, and I did go back to fire. Blew up things in two or three shots, but I did note I drank alot as well. I did play alot solo even though I had a friend to play alongside at times, but the mage suddenly became fun! I think it really starts to shine at around 30 or so.

Remember as well, just because you are one spec does not preclude you from utilizing all of your other spells. In fact as fire up to 50, I was able to solo the captain's ships quests in stranglethorn, in tight corners with mobs all around. You can still sheep, you can still nova, and even without ice barrier you do have mana shield. So sheep one, pull another and with fire you can mow through the mobs to get to the next. You can resheep too.

Prior to 60 or even 58 if you are in a rush to outlands, the gear doesn't help much, but I would advise adding any spell damage you find, if its pertaining to your spec, such as "of frost or frozen wrath" lets say for frost then I would get that. The + damage to your frost and/or fire made a huge difference in not only normal damage, but when I crit, it was even bigger!

I digress, its late and hopefully this all makes some sense. SO on with the story, at 50 I decided I wanted to try frost again, especially to try out the pet. Didn't like it at first, same as before, but as I started loading up on frost and spell damage gear, the numbers went up considerably. My friend and myself decided to try sunken temple to get the mage item, and we, through careful planning of course and avoiding killing all mobs but creating a well crafted path to our goals, were able to complete that quest, and also were able to duo the first couple of bosses there. The instance is a 45-55 level instance I believe and we were 53 or so at the time. Did this with frost, and the things I could do were just insane really. And with the frost damage gear, my crits, and shatter crits, well lets just say there were too far off from fire, plus I could control most mobs and also get away as a clothie from something that a plate wearer may have trouble.

So, at 61 I now have TONS of spell damage from only a few levels of outlands, my crits are close to 2000 give or take from frostbolts with and without shatter. Due to shatter I am a critting mochine, the +crit on the outlands gear helps too, he he. Anyway, over the past few levels since outlands with all this plus crit and plus damage gear I was stilling missing fire, my true love. So, I respecced and tried some pyro's fireballs and such. Now remember, your numbers will stack up with scorch, but I don't spec for it, why? Because I want to kill the frikers BEFORE they hit me, so my rotation would be pyro, fireball fireball fireblast, if they are dead, then I usually just watch them burn for the last few ticks of their health from incinerate and the DOT s from the fire spells. Using scorch, to me, is better suited as in the raid spec, where a tank is holding it down, or should be. With stacking scorch in PvE in solo play it does a little damage and usually the mob is on top of you. Frost nova usually wont hold long enough to get the pyro off, so I don't use the scorch.

Back to the fire re spec. I mentioned the scorch as the numbers WILL be lower if its not stacked which is relevant to my story. I played awhile today with the re spec of fire. The crits, even with combustion up, were really only 100 more than my frost crits, plus I OOMd like a mutha, had no control and even tried to mow down one of those elite shatter hand soldiers by honor hold that wonders about, did it with frost.

Having cold snap to give you a water elemental twice in a fight, having a pet that can range nova things AND add damage that scales with yours, reduction in cooldowns of cold snap, using your toys more often, as someone mentioned, being able to solo difficult stuff, which in outlands is almost necessary with the aggro insanity early on, the multitude of mobs, respawn rates, etc. Just makes life soooo much more simpler. And if I feel like rounding up a ton of mobs to AoE them and farm for whatever for this toon or any toon, well, I can.

Oh, did ramps the other night and I topped the dps charts over an elemental shammy and another frost mage by almost 60k, not including my pet that added another 64k or so of damage to add up to 120k of damage over the second place dps, ANd that was while controlling alot of the situation that would have gotten out of hand had I not.

So, in summation, if you got this far, for me at least:

early on:
1-20 tough either way, expect to die alot, or just be careful lol (frost of fire doesnt really matter here)I think fire shines a little better

20-25 starts getting a LITTLE better (still like fire)

25-30 Much better and you may find fire is really taking off, still not much in the frost tree save for the new IV talent, as fire now has ice block too. But I was really beginning to mow things down before they even though of touching me, I mean 41 yards is a nice distance, with talents flame throwing.

30-40 Fire just scorches now as you dont still have much access to plus damage or frozen gear yet but intellect will increase crit which works well in fire.

40-50 Tough as now you have great talents in frost, but you still dont have enough such as empowered frostbolt and some others, so I would still stay fire, here is where, as you mentioned, it does get difficult.

50-58 (or 60 outlands) In the 50s I found more access to of frost of frozen wrath gear and when I did that my numbers really flew through the roof and started to really enjoy frost, in addition now I had talent access to a pet as well as the essential damage talents for frost. Now my mana was lower in the 50s, but the overall damage and subsequently the crits from each really went up and it was easier, along with what I was able to do in sunken temple, to convince me to stick with it.

58 - 70 Frost. As I said, I got some GREAT gear that not only has stam and intel but LOADS of spell damage AND crit rate gear right off the bat. At 61 where I currently am with this toon, I thought with all this gear, mentioned this before but this is where it all comes togeter, that if it did this to frost then my fire must be insane. It wasnt, so I respecced back. Again, I got crits that were probably 100 more damage than frost. I crit more with frost and use sooo much less mana, plus I can slow down and kite anything, control most situations, aoe farm for mats, use a barrier that doesnt hog more of my mana forcing me to drink that nice water than cost me mana to make in the first place.

So thats what I found. Again, it is dependant on play style, but early on, as is the case with many clothies, save for maybe locks, that they dont really get more powerful until later levels.

Oh and have a pet in pvp under frost, well, nuff said :)

I am still a HUUUUGE fan of fire, but as you can see, I am a convert in the sense that frost, to me, comes into its own and can stand dps toe to toe with fire. Havent raided obviously, and would prob go with the fire spec for that, but until that day comes....

I found the opposite to be true. My mage is scorch spec'd and has been for some time. Blast wave, Polymorph, and frost nova are all the CC I ever need.

Also in dungeons / group content I never need to drink. Maybe after a boss fight, but it is few and far between. Mana regen on crits from talents, having the Power infused mushroom helps to steady the leveling grind in Outlands, and the Emerald and Jade Owls if you're a Jewelcrafter are all useful.

Typically with fire a Pyro, Fireball, Scorch, Fire Blast combo is enough to finish a mob. Yes, below level 62 or so, I would say you will need to drink alot if this is how you grind.



Most Frost mages I know out-DpS Arcane and Fire mages in 5 man content. Against really long fights, just like Spicyoctopusroll stated, Scorch is a killer!

Honestly my for leveling is: Group!

Fire can handle three mob pulls. Try both and stick with what you like.