I agree with that totally. Shamans are nature casters as well. Heres what I'd like to see.
1. CC spell of some sort. Hundred of them listed here.
2. Some kind of Imp. movement removal. Even if it has a decently long recharge
3. Improved Earth and fire elemental. 20 mins for a cooldown is crazy when mages are only 3 and i dont know what the shadow priests is.
4. An "Oh ****" button. Every class has one but shamans. Maybe some form of Ice block like mages but with Stone instead.
5. Heres an idea for the "Oh ****" button. We are masters of the spirit are we not? Maybe come up with some kind of spell that astrally projects ourself out of our body for like 10 seconds. Sort of like Invisibilty but we cant target, be targeted, seen or heal, attack or use items. I really like this idea. This could also double up as our get out of impaired movement effects too. I'm thinking 5 min cooldowns. Not fast enough to affect arena or pvp and yet just long enough to help in pve.
Edited, Jan 18th 2008 2:28am by Soljourner
Edited, Jan 18th 2008 2:30am by Soljourner
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13 posts
We should have a totem with a similar effect as the druid's cyclone, something like...
Cyclone Totem, X mana, 10 second cooldown.
Places a totem, at the feet of the caster, with 5 health that last for 15 seconds or until totem is destroyed that traps targeted enemy in a cyclone making enemy invulnerable but unable to move or attack.
The effect would last for 3 or so seconds and is renewed every 3 seconds by the totem. Therefore makin the debuff dispell trinkets pretty well worthles against it(The only way to be rid of the effects would be to have an ally destroy the totem or wait it out).
Would be great for PvE and sufficiently annoying in PvP. If Blizz gave us something like that the entire problem would be solved.
Edited, Jan 20th 2008 6:22pm by drakhunterD
Cyclone Totem, X mana, 10 second cooldown.
Places a totem, at the feet of the caster, with 5 health that last for 15 seconds or until totem is destroyed that traps targeted enemy in a cyclone making enemy invulnerable but unable to move or attack.
The effect would last for 3 or so seconds and is renewed every 3 seconds by the totem. Therefore makin the debuff dispell trinkets pretty well worthles against it(The only way to be rid of the effects would be to have an ally destroy the totem or wait it out).
Would be great for PvE and sufficiently annoying in PvP. If Blizz gave us something like that the entire problem would be solved.
Edited, Jan 20th 2008 6:22pm by drakhunterD
the 3 second timer onthat would be owned by DR you wouldn't even get to run out the whole totem and with all totems especially with 5hp you would still get pwnt
13 posts
pretty well all totems have 5hp (stoneclaw and ele totems are the only exceptions)so i aint gonna mess wit dat, and, sorry for showing my nubness, wats DR?
Edited, Jan 20th 2008 6:27pm by drakhunterD
Edited, Jan 20th 2008 6:27pm by drakhunterD
Diminishing Return,
The more you use spells with a DR in sequence the less effective they are.
eg/ If a lock fears you, you are feared for 10 seconds, lock casts same fear on you, you are feared for 7 seconds.
The more you use spells with a DR in sequence the less effective they are.
eg/ If a lock fears you, you are feared for 10 seconds, lock casts same fear on you, you are feared for 7 seconds.
this has been discussed a lot, but, shaman is quite a powerful dps class, it is possible us having a CC might just make us too powerful.
I have heard some ppl suggest this and I must say I have to agree with this idea, don't give us a CC, give us an anti CC ability, one that either works on just ourselves or also make it target able on our party members.
and enh does need some way to break the gap between himself and range, there have been ideas of a shaman charge or a "Ride the Thunder" idea, this could also be quite helpful for bash bash shaman.
I have heard some ppl suggest this and I must say I have to agree with this idea, don't give us a CC, give us an anti CC ability, one that either works on just ourselves or also make it target able on our party members.
and enh does need some way to break the gap between himself and range, there have been ideas of a shaman charge or a "Ride the Thunder" idea, this could also be quite helpful for bash bash shaman.
jmfmb wrote:
this has been discussed a lot, but, shaman is quite a powerful dps class, it is possible us having a CC might just make us too powerful.
I've heard this argument countless times, but I really have yet to see anything to convince me this is true.
So Shaman can buff with totems? Whoopty-do. We spend six seconds casting them every two minutes and before every single battle. It's a hassle, it's worthless in PvP since they're so easily destroyed and don't follow you in addition to the precious seconds the GCD cost you. We use our "tool" totems in PvP, that's generally it. And in PvE, they benefit your entire party, not just you. Furthermore, right now, end-game parties don't give a good God damn about our totems. They'd rather have CC's in heroics, and usually in Kara too. They're more or less just superfluous bonuses; nowhere near enough reason to bring us along.
You need to reach 25-man content before totems can realistically begin to enter into a group's consideration, and that's just ridiculous.
Hunters, Mages, and Warlocks can all easily match and/or exceed Shaman in DPS. They might lose on damage done, but that's not DPS. It's the amount of real damage you've actually caused. And the reason they fall behind the Shaman is because they're busy CC'ing. The Shaman has nothing to do but DPS. If Shaman were preoccupied with CC'ing the way those other classes were, our damage done would be appropriately lower.
Quote:
and enh does need some way to break the gap between himself and range, there have been ideas of a shaman charge or a "Ride the Thunder" idea, this could also be quite helpful for bash bash shaman.
The "Ride the Lightning" idea was terrible. Sorry, but it was. We don't need another gimmicky spell with a broken mechanic. We need something simple and effective that will fix all three Shaman specs, not just one.
8 posts
I haven't really thought about an "OH ****" button for a Shaman, but the Astral Projection Idea was very cool. Definitely makes sense with current abilities like Astral Recall and Reincarnation, just seems like a combination of the two.
Mostly I'd just be happy if they made Ghost Wolf work like Druid shape shifting.
Mostly I'd just be happy if they made Ghost Wolf work like Druid shape shifting.
Ride the Lightning > Ride the Thunder
zumgz
zumgz
so ya i used wrong name for it jeez, i still think blizzard needs to give you enh shaman a ability like charge to close your gap between players that might kite you to death.
guadion i understand where you are coming from, but I can honestly see why a CC would be OP for us, now an ability that gets rid of CCused on us i can see some percsto that a new way of dealing with the situation, and something that wont make us over powered in pve or pvp.
I have no problem admitting the sheer amount of dps I can put in a pvp or instance situation is ridiculous, when i am doing 40% or more of my groups dmg in a heroic, there is something a bit amazing about that.
Anyone that has played with a well geared shaman before knows shaman can bring heavy burst and buffs to a group, I know when I get into a group I am making the run shorter do to the raw dmg I perform in it (as long as I have a good tank).
would i not want a CC? i would love one, as it stands hands down we have some of the best burst in comparison to many of the other classes. ever seen the guy that multi boxes 5 ele shaman, it works because of our burst, that guy clears entire instances, able to destroy everything in just a few casts with each shaman, and if you have seen his gear it really is nothing too impressive.
but hey we can both agree to disagree here. what i really want to see is some fixes to some of our spells that are already in the game, for instance, tremmor totem needs a buff, make it so that when it is dropped it gives all party members fearward that lasts 10 seconds and a new version is applied in 10 seconds, this way if you are feared it works, you don't have to pray for a random pulse and hope your not out of range, it would work something like the wf and ft totems we drop, also for christe sakes make our healing wave and lesser ealing wave water spells so if we are locked out of nature we can still heal, or frost we can still dps (as ele or resto) also I think blizzard should give us molten blast a fire bolt spell we had in the games beta test so we have more spell options.
guadion i understand where you are coming from, but I can honestly see why a CC would be OP for us, now an ability that gets rid of CCused on us i can see some percsto that a new way of dealing with the situation, and something that wont make us over powered in pve or pvp.
I have no problem admitting the sheer amount of dps I can put in a pvp or instance situation is ridiculous, when i am doing 40% or more of my groups dmg in a heroic, there is something a bit amazing about that.
Anyone that has played with a well geared shaman before knows shaman can bring heavy burst and buffs to a group, I know when I get into a group I am making the run shorter do to the raw dmg I perform in it (as long as I have a good tank).
would i not want a CC? i would love one, as it stands hands down we have some of the best burst in comparison to many of the other classes. ever seen the guy that multi boxes 5 ele shaman, it works because of our burst, that guy clears entire instances, able to destroy everything in just a few casts with each shaman, and if you have seen his gear it really is nothing too impressive.
but hey we can both agree to disagree here. what i really want to see is some fixes to some of our spells that are already in the game, for instance, tremmor totem needs a buff, make it so that when it is dropped it gives all party members fearward that lasts 10 seconds and a new version is applied in 10 seconds, this way if you are feared it works, you don't have to pray for a random pulse and hope your not out of range, it would work something like the wf and ft totems we drop, also for christe sakes make our healing wave and lesser ealing wave water spells so if we are locked out of nature we can still heal, or frost we can still dps (as ele or resto) also I think blizzard should give us molten blast a fire bolt spell we had in the games beta test so we have more spell options.
Agreed. Very good ideas all around. As for an answer to CC, I still present my Astral Projection idea.
I don't know if this has been suggested before, apologies if it has.
How about modifying the Elemental talent 'Earths grasp' to increase the speed reduction instead of the radius of effect of the Earthbind totem.
For example;
Earth's Grasp (Rank 1)
Instant
Increases the health of your Stoneclaw Totem by 25% and increases the speed reduction of your Earthbind Totem to 70%.
Earth's Grasp (Rank 2)
Instant
Increases the health of your Stoneclaw Totem by 50% and increases the speed reduction of your Earthbind Totem to 90%.
This needs no new spells or effects to design, and would give us the time to back up and perform a full heal when fighting elites or slowing an enemy in an arena/BG.
Simple and effective.
How about modifying the Elemental talent 'Earths grasp' to increase the speed reduction instead of the radius of effect of the Earthbind totem.
For example;
Earth's Grasp (Rank 1)
Instant
Increases the health of your Stoneclaw Totem by 25% and increases the speed reduction of your Earthbind Totem to 70%.
Earth's Grasp (Rank 2)
Instant
Increases the health of your Stoneclaw Totem by 50% and increases the speed reduction of your Earthbind Totem to 90%.
This needs no new spells or effects to design, and would give us the time to back up and perform a full heal when fighting elites or slowing an enemy in an arena/BG.
Simple and effective.
New Shaman here, alt and all that. So no end game experience, but i do run heroics on my main and can already see the lack of cc be somewhat of a problem for my low level shaman both solo and groupwize.
However, thinking about my new shaman alt and why they are what they are, made me wonder why they haven't got any cc in the first place and what are purposes are in the game (espacially group play, since this is an mmorpg).. We basicly buff others to help ourselves. This buffing the party may not be enough at the moment to make it worthwhile having a shaman in a 5 man group (or even 10 man) at the expence of a cc/dps. (Side note, one may argue the same for dps warriors and dps paladins and their benefits).
Some have posted that a more unique cc capability-mechanic would be fitting, since we have all seen the stun, sleep, scare, block, banish, seduce and transform type of cc. And in that scenario i have seen an original thought on making totems have variable effects depending on circumstances. This is in line with my own thoughts where totems or buffs in general fit the shaman nature. I would like to ask what you all think about totems,buffs or spells not allowing the shaman to cc directly but buff other cc capable classes to allow them to cc more effectivly, more often. Thinking about allowing multiple traps, lowering cast times or cooldowns, lower dr effects.
This would still leave the shaman in trouble in solo play, i agree, perhaps one could continue this thought process and solve that issue, but it would allow us to take a place of a cc in groups seeying as our own lack of cc will be replaced by allowing the other cc class to do twice the work.
However, thinking about my new shaman alt and why they are what they are, made me wonder why they haven't got any cc in the first place and what are purposes are in the game (espacially group play, since this is an mmorpg).. We basicly buff others to help ourselves. This buffing the party may not be enough at the moment to make it worthwhile having a shaman in a 5 man group (or even 10 man) at the expence of a cc/dps. (Side note, one may argue the same for dps warriors and dps paladins and their benefits).
Some have posted that a more unique cc capability-mechanic would be fitting, since we have all seen the stun, sleep, scare, block, banish, seduce and transform type of cc. And in that scenario i have seen an original thought on making totems have variable effects depending on circumstances. This is in line with my own thoughts where totems or buffs in general fit the shaman nature. I would like to ask what you all think about totems,buffs or spells not allowing the shaman to cc directly but buff other cc capable classes to allow them to cc more effectivly, more often. Thinking about allowing multiple traps, lowering cast times or cooldowns, lower dr effects.
This would still leave the shaman in trouble in solo play, i agree, perhaps one could continue this thought process and solve that issue, but it would allow us to take a place of a cc in groups seeying as our own lack of cc will be replaced by allowing the other cc class to do twice the work.
THe thing is, I dont think shamans having something that buffs others CC will be all that reliable or helpful. Shamans dont need a direct CC. Fluff wise, we should get a form of CC that is based off of our enemies. For example, and this is off the top of my head, instead of having hex, we should have a totem/shield that when someone hits us with melee/ranged/spell, they get affected by a hex/huricane/freeze or whatnot. It should be based off of what others do. Just not directly. Maybe a reflective shield/totem that reflects effects back.
42 posts
Yall just need to find the right parties..
If theres an enhancment shamman on in the guild, and im trying to get a group together, there the first invited..
Insane DPS machines, and buffs galore.. Cant beat it, forget CC when ya have a savage dps group
If theres an enhancment shamman on in the guild, and im trying to get a group together, there the first invited..
Insane DPS machines, and buffs galore.. Cant beat it, forget CC when ya have a savage dps group
Quote:
Yall just need to find the right parties..
If theres an enhancment shamman on in the guild, and im trying to get a group together, there the first invited..
Insane DPS machines, and buffs galore.. Cant beat it, forget CC when ya have a savage dps group
If theres an enhancment shamman on in the guild, and im trying to get a group together, there the first invited..
Insane DPS machines, and buffs galore.. Cant beat it, forget CC when ya have a savage dps group
maybe you should read, we were talking about pvp where shamans are severely gimper w/o CC. Enh gets kited and ele gets meleepwnt.
Quote:
maybe you should read, we were talking about pvp where shamans are severely gimper w/o CC. Enh gets kited and ele gets meleepwnt.
Don't forget resto are dead as soon as earth shield is dispelled pretty much lol (vs a GOOD dps'er).
Soljourner wrote:
Shamans dont need a direct CC. Fluff wise, we should get a form of CC that is based off of our enemies. For example, and this is off the top of my head, instead of having hex, we should have a totem/shield that when someone hits us with melee/ranged/spell, they get affected by a hex/huricane/freeze or whatnot. It should be based off of what others do. Just not directly. Maybe a reflective shield/totem that reflects effects back.
Another bad idea in a long list of proposed bad ideas to fix Shaman. I've said it a million times already, but I guess I'll have to say it again. We don't need another gimmicky spell with a broken mechanic. We need something simple, effective, and proactive. Shaman are already entirely too reactive. We shouldn't need to get hit to do something, we do that too much already. We need a tool that is going to allow us to close distance so Enhancement can melee or put distance between us and our opponents so Restoration/Elemental can get a heal/lightning spell off unmolested. That is the only thing that is going to help Shaman.
CattieBeCool wrote:
Yall just need to find the right parties..
If theres an enhancment shamman on in the guild, and im trying to get a group together, there the first invited..
Insane DPS machines, and buffs galore.. Cant beat it, forget CC when ya have a savage dps group
If theres an enhancment shamman on in the guild, and im trying to get a group together, there the first invited..
Insane DPS machines, and buffs galore.. Cant beat it, forget CC when ya have a savage dps group
Ya'll just, I-say-I-say-I-say, ya'll just need to reach 70 before ya'll try talkin' about things ya'll're unaware of.
Shaman are fine until 70. It's once we reach 70 that we start having problems. You don't need to horde CC for normal instances, practically any party make-up can get through them.
Most heroics, however, are built entirely around the CC mechanic. The mobs hit so hard that tanks can't hold more than one or two tops until they are epically geared out with the best tanking gear in the game and have an extremely good healer attatched to their hip. "Savege DPS" doesn't do you any good at all when three or four mobs drop your tank before your healer can get a single spell off.
Not too mention that Enchancement shamans dont have crap for armor. I doubt even decked out they break 9 or 10k
Gaudion, I did a heroic last night with a group that severely lacked CC:
Me (resto, healing)
Leodarx (elemental shaman)
Bonads (enhancement shaman)
Shabadoo (Prot pally -- ok, I know; but still!)
Holygirl (Shadow priest)
Now, that group had no CC whatsoever and we blew through heroic Mech in about an hour. Although Shabadoo is really really well geared, the others weren't as much. I'm only at 1550 +healing, Leodarx is an alt in my guild, Bonads is pretty goood, and same with Holygirl -- but it wasn't like we were all in full T6.
This whole "CC is needed soooo much in heroics QQ" crap is getting on my nerves, when we can rip through a heroic without any CC whatsoever.
Also, I've done many a heroic with my Enhance friend Kryzar, and a warrior tank named Aian -- not a prot pally -- and we go through with hardly any wipes at all!
CC is not as needed as you all make it out to be; when I was Elemental, even, I got PuG groups when I needed to.
Maybe you just need to get a guild that appreciates the viability of Enhance and Elemental shamans.
Me (resto, healing)
Leodarx (elemental shaman)
Bonads (enhancement shaman)
Shabadoo (Prot pally -- ok, I know; but still!)
Holygirl (Shadow priest)
Now, that group had no CC whatsoever and we blew through heroic Mech in about an hour. Although Shabadoo is really really well geared, the others weren't as much. I'm only at 1550 +healing, Leodarx is an alt in my guild, Bonads is pretty goood, and same with Holygirl -- but it wasn't like we were all in full T6.
This whole "CC is needed soooo much in heroics QQ" crap is getting on my nerves, when we can rip through a heroic without any CC whatsoever.
Also, I've done many a heroic with my Enhance friend Kryzar, and a warrior tank named Aian -- not a prot pally -- and we go through with hardly any wipes at all!
CC is not as needed as you all make it out to be; when I was Elemental, even, I got PuG groups when I needed to.
Maybe you just need to get a guild that appreciates the viability of Enhance and Elemental shamans.
Whats the word I'm looking for?......pwned?
Anyways, right now, we only have two choices, *sigh* reroll, or make do with what we have. We can put up suggestions all day to bliz, but we dont know if they'll listen or not. We're 1 in 10 mil now. So lets see what we have to work with and how we can do the impossible. Think of the solution, not the problem.
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 9:30pm by Soljourner
Anyways, right now, we only have two choices, *sigh* reroll, or make do with what we have. We can put up suggestions all day to bliz, but we dont know if they'll listen or not. We're 1 in 10 mil now. So lets see what we have to work with and how we can do the impossible. Think of the solution, not the problem.
Edited, Jan 22nd 2008 9:30pm by Soljourner
lbattousai wrote:
WEll i know for a fact Blizzard is CONSIDERINGgiving shaman a CC ability, it is not definite, however atleast they are thinking about it. A CC ability would make shaman incredibly powerful in PvP, and hopefully more acceptable as a DPS/CC in endgame rather then a healer.
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Is there any link or confirmation to this? If we know for a fact they are considering granting shaman CC, what form will the CC take?
GWynand wrote:
Gaudion, I did a heroic last night with a group that severely lacked CC:
Me (resto, healing)
Leodarx (elemental shaman)
Bonads (enhancement shaman)
Shabadoo (Prot pally -- ok, I know; but still!)
Holygirl (Shadow priest)
Now, that group had no CC whatsoever and we blew through heroic Mech in about an hour. Although Shabadoo is really really well geared, the others weren't as much. I'm only at 1550 +healing, Leodarx is an alt in my guild, Bonads is pretty goood, and same with Holygirl -- but it wasn't like we were all in full T6.
This whole "CC is needed soooo much in heroics QQ" crap is getting on my nerves, when we can rip through a heroic without any CC whatsoever.
Also, I've done many a heroic with my Enhance friend Kryzar, and a warrior tank named Aian -- not a prot pally -- and we go through with hardly any wipes at all!
CC is not as needed as you all make it out to be; when I was Elemental, even, I got PuG groups when I needed to.
Maybe you just need to get a guild that appreciates the viability of Enhance and Elemental shamans.
Me (resto, healing)
Leodarx (elemental shaman)
Bonads (enhancement shaman)
Shabadoo (Prot pally -- ok, I know; but still!)
Holygirl (Shadow priest)
Now, that group had no CC whatsoever and we blew through heroic Mech in about an hour. Although Shabadoo is really really well geared, the others weren't as much. I'm only at 1550 +healing, Leodarx is an alt in my guild, Bonads is pretty goood, and same with Holygirl -- but it wasn't like we were all in full T6.
This whole "CC is needed soooo much in heroics QQ" crap is getting on my nerves, when we can rip through a heroic without any CC whatsoever.
Also, I've done many a heroic with my Enhance friend Kryzar, and a warrior tank named Aian -- not a prot pally -- and we go through with hardly any wipes at all!
CC is not as needed as you all make it out to be; when I was Elemental, even, I got PuG groups when I needed to.
Maybe you just need to get a guild that appreciates the viability of Enhance and Elemental shamans.
Congratulations.
I've made it through heroic instances without CC too. Went through heroic SP once in 30 minutes flat. You know why? Because the Druid tank was stupidly geared and could tank every mob in the instance. He made it look like a non-heroic. 1550 healing is nothing to scoff at, and if your Prot Pally was as geared as I imagine he is, then yes, I'm not surprised or impressed.
It's possible, but still improbable. You've got your experience. Do you know what mine has been? I've pugged for heroics for the past two months straight, and I've made it through... uh, let me think... one, two, three... four... let's just pick a nice, round number and call it half-a-dozen.
well the thing is with healing way healing a single target who can tank multiple mobs easily is ezmode for a shammy and with the addition of earthshield to the mix they are so ez to keep up :S like last time I did heroic SP I decided not to top off our half blues half epics tank ( who had 490 def at least) thru Rokmar the crackler who's dot ticks for like 2-3k or something? and even though I dropped mana tide I ended up with 34% mana at the end of the fight.....single target healing for a shaman is so amazingly easy as a shaman it's just boring, which is why I DE'd my healing set so noone could even ask me to heal for them ( even though I could still prolly do it with my elemental gear)
but anyways in arena I would rely entirely on LoS to keep myself alive back when I did 2's with a warrior friend of mine ( Swordspec+ WF totem=rofls)
but when I got caught in the open I was ****** and had no way to get away from people due to the fact that everyone elses snares were the exact same slow speed as mine or theirs could entrap me or something to that effect, while mine wasn't affected by diminishing returns I STILL WAS WITHIN MELEE RANGE THE ENTIRE TIME MY SHOCKS WERE DOING NOTHIN LOLOLOLOLOL
**** that used to **** me off, which is why I'm only playing on my druid now :D or doing pve on my sham, since I'd much rather grind full glads on a class that could get a benefit from it rather than my shammy
but anyways in arena I would rely entirely on LoS to keep myself alive back when I did 2's with a warrior friend of mine ( Swordspec+ WF totem=rofls)
but when I got caught in the open I was ****** and had no way to get away from people due to the fact that everyone elses snares were the exact same slow speed as mine or theirs could entrap me or something to that effect, while mine wasn't affected by diminishing returns I STILL WAS WITHIN MELEE RANGE THE ENTIRE TIME MY SHOCKS WERE DOING NOTHIN LOLOLOLOLOL
**** that used to **** me off, which is why I'm only playing on my druid now :D or doing pve on my sham, since I'd much rather grind full glads on a class that could get a benefit from it rather than my shammy
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