http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kul+Tiras&n=Fanoran
Pre note...Why do you have to have a paid account to use the forum search feature? =/ Lame...
The class leader in my guild is like never on, and I have no hunter friends on my server, so all of these questions I gotta refer to forums...and out of all the WoW sites, I trust these ones the most. (Explains why I post here so much...lol)
Anyways. My guild has 5 hunters, all BM. I'd like to make the change and go survival, but not only the guild, but because I know how valuable they are in raids. And because I want the extra challenge of playing it, rather than spamming a steady shot macro and trapping here and there =/
From what I understand, I need 600 base agi before the respec. Which, i'm nowhere near at the moment. I'm stacked on AP.
Now 600 unbuffed, does that mean with enchants? So 600 with enchants is good enough, or before enchants?
Would I want to completely sacrifice the AP for more Agi? How important is AP to a Surv hunter?
And Leather gear? I always fear getting ragged on if I want to roll on leather with nice stats, and wearing leather in general...because, at least on my server, not a lot of people understand the class.
And how would I go about researching the gear I can get pre kara, and some in it? Just use the upgrade function in the armoy, and find the piece with the most agi on it?
Also, my guild is requiring I have my hit rating maxed. How hard is that to accomplished with surefooted and surv gear?
There's a lot I don't understand because I've been fed so much false info about the class, it's hard to determine whats right and whats not. =/
Advice appreciated, thanks =D
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 2:38pm by Fanoran
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Surv. Respec questionsFollow
While having 600 agi before a respec is nice (And it helps you in the long run), you don't *need* to have that amount. It's just a goal, if you will. And the 600 mark means all your gear, enchants included.
I'd suggest going Survival, not because I'm prejudiced against BM (Not a bit. >.>) but because you'll get more raid spots. A Survival Hunter buffs everyone in the raid. (Well they buff those who hit the boss with pointy objects) BM Hunters only pew pew.
However, you're wrong about Survival being more of a challenge to play than BM. To be honest, I think BM is the most focus-intensive Hunter spec to play. With the other specs, keeping an eye out on your pet is smart and good, but not 100% key. As a BM hunter, not only do you have to watch your shot rotation, but you also have to make sure your pet doesn't die.
As a Survival Hunter, you'll sit there most of the fight, spamming your macro.
Hit rating is quite easy to max out, especially with the new Season 3 axe. Because you'll have Surefooted as a talent, you only need about 95ish hit rating. (If I remember correctly. I could be wrong.)
Also, from what I've seen/heard, end game itemization for SV Hunters turns out that leather armor actually gives the most +agility bonuses. Don't be afraid to wear leather if it's better than mail. You *shouldn't* be getting hit in raids anyways. ^^
Hope this helps!
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 4:25pm by Zeromatter
I'd suggest going Survival, not because I'm prejudiced against BM (Not a bit. >.>) but because you'll get more raid spots. A Survival Hunter buffs everyone in the raid. (Well they buff those who hit the boss with pointy objects) BM Hunters only pew pew.
However, you're wrong about Survival being more of a challenge to play than BM. To be honest, I think BM is the most focus-intensive Hunter spec to play. With the other specs, keeping an eye out on your pet is smart and good, but not 100% key. As a BM hunter, not only do you have to watch your shot rotation, but you also have to make sure your pet doesn't die.
As a Survival Hunter, you'll sit there most of the fight, spamming your macro.
Hit rating is quite easy to max out, especially with the new Season 3 axe. Because you'll have Surefooted as a talent, you only need about 95ish hit rating. (If I remember correctly. I could be wrong.)
Also, from what I've seen/heard, end game itemization for SV Hunters turns out that leather armor actually gives the most +agility bonuses. Don't be afraid to wear leather if it's better than mail. You *shouldn't* be getting hit in raids anyways. ^^
Hope this helps!
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 4:25pm by Zeromatter
Regem and respec for all agi over AP. Always.
I've never worn leather, and had just a tad over 600 agi before I first respecced, wearing mostly dungeon blues with 2 pieces of arena gear and the vindicator belt. It's doable (not mandatory, just suggested).
But even if you only have 500 agi before respeccing, your buff should still be better than TSA, assuming you're crit is in the 20s.
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 4:26pm by Steelray
I've never worn leather, and had just a tad over 600 agi before I first respecced, wearing mostly dungeon blues with 2 pieces of arena gear and the vindicator belt. It's doable (not mandatory, just suggested).
But even if you only have 500 agi before respeccing, your buff should still be better than TSA, assuming you're crit is in the 20s.
Edited, Jan 12th 2008 4:26pm by Steelray
Having re-specced to Survival a few weeks ago, I feel I can add some beneficial input to this thread.
To start off, getting to that minimum amount of AGI is easier than you think because of a certain Survival talent (cannot remember the name because I am at work) that boosts your base AGI by I think 20% when maxed.
Losing a lot of your AP in favor of AGI is not a bad thing at all because in the end it might actually leave you with a total AP value that is higher than what you had previously. This happened to me. I lost hundreds in AP when I re-gemmed all my gear and got loads of AGI enchants but I ended up with a higher total AP than when I was BM.
Though not mentioned, focus on Critical Strike % to increase the proc rate of your Expose Weakness. Currently I am sitting at 788 AGI, about 1500 AP unbuffed and 29.20% critical strike rating. Though my hit rating is for CRAP right now, I hope to slowly begin changing that.
So yea, not sure what else to say. Happy Survival speccing!
To start off, getting to that minimum amount of AGI is easier than you think because of a certain Survival talent (cannot remember the name because I am at work) that boosts your base AGI by I think 20% when maxed.
Losing a lot of your AP in favor of AGI is not a bad thing at all because in the end it might actually leave you with a total AP value that is higher than what you had previously. This happened to me. I lost hundreds in AP when I re-gemmed all my gear and got loads of AGI enchants but I ended up with a higher total AP than when I was BM.
Though not mentioned, focus on Critical Strike % to increase the proc rate of your Expose Weakness. Currently I am sitting at 788 AGI, about 1500 AP unbuffed and 29.20% critical strike rating. Though my hit rating is for CRAP right now, I hope to slowly begin changing that.
So yea, not sure what else to say. Happy Survival speccing!
Okay, now my guild is telling me not to respec because me "gimping my DPS for a small boost to raid DPS" isn't worth a respec for. So, what do I tell them?
Tell them to pay your monthly fee and then you will do whatever they want you to do.
And just to comment on one of the other posts in this thread, BM just goes pew-pew, well we do have improved hunters mark that boosts ALL melee dps.
And just to comment on one of the other posts in this thread, BM just goes pew-pew, well we do have improved hunters mark that boosts ALL melee dps.
that ~200 Ap to all physical dps kicks butts!
although it counts most in 25 mans though...
although it counts most in 25 mans though...
SV for 10 mans though, how useful is that?
Tell your guild they're retarded... 5 Hunters and not a single MM or SV? thats a waste of potential buffs from either SV or MM, while you would "gimp" your personal DPS, the entire raid's DPS would increase by what you're personally gimped therefore making the raid better, and if anyone in a raid has a brain, having 24 people (those who use physical damage anyway) do better means your gonna progress faster and hit harder as a whole.
Although, I do have to say, if your GM is being smart and putting one hunter per group for 25 man that means all 25 people are getting the "ferocious inspiration" buff increasing all DPS by 3% and I don't know how that compares to Expose Weakness.
Now that I think about it I think I'd rather have everypne in the raid get FI, because it spreads to magic damage too....
Either way, do what you want it's your money, your fun, your game...don't let anyone tell you how to spend it, I highly doubt your guild would boot you if you re-specced, and if they would, it's time to find a new guild anyway.
Although, I do have to say, if your GM is being smart and putting one hunter per group for 25 man that means all 25 people are getting the "ferocious inspiration" buff increasing all DPS by 3% and I don't know how that compares to Expose Weakness.
Now that I think about it I think I'd rather have everypne in the raid get FI, because it spreads to magic damage too....
Either way, do what you want it's your money, your fun, your game...don't let anyone tell you how to spend it, I highly doubt your guild would boot you if you re-specced, and if they would, it's time to find a new guild anyway.
Well we tried Gruul's for a few weeks, got destroyed and a bunch of people left. Now we're back to recruiting and gearing people in Kara again.
My stats if I respecced without any new gear (But re gems, and rechants) Would be ~570 Agi, and 26% Crit (According to Cheeky's) I know thats a lot lower than the guideline posted in the sticky.
I do need to get wolfslayer, and I'm also getting a new pair of pants, so I dunno...I'm debating whether to wait till I'm back in 25 mans again.
My stats if I respecced without any new gear (But re gems, and rechants) Would be ~570 Agi, and 26% Crit (According to Cheeky's) I know thats a lot lower than the guideline posted in the sticky.
I do need to get wolfslayer, and I'm also getting a new pair of pants, so I dunno...I'm debating whether to wait till I'm back in 25 mans again.
If you're planning on respeccing to SV than the Sunfury Bow would be better for you. The Rifle is good for BM.
Firstly check out my guide, Hunter's Guide - Survival of the Fittest, the bare minimum you should ever have for agility unbuffed would be 435 (with LR that boosts it up to 500). Yes this includes enchants. You should have at the bare minimum 500 agility (after respec), higher is definitely recommended and going into Kara I would recommend at least 600.
I consider myself a norm around here even though I don't respond to every thread (but I do read them). But I do take pride in my SV spec and tweak it ever so slightly to experiment. Currently I am spec'd for pure PVE situations. It's not a bad build for normal PVP, but arena's I would highly advise against it.
Your biggest problem will be the fact that you aren't BM and that almost every guild now expects their hunters to maximize their DPS for a raid. Our CC abilities become almost useless in the 25 man's, and our DPS will lack behind that of a BM. However you should still be able to pull off being in the top 5 DPS'ers. Keep your shot-rotation consistent and you'll be fine.
In my previous guild, the guild leader would not run Kara without me being there. After showing him what exactly it is a hunter can do in terms of utility, I blew him away, and was given the title of "Master of CC". Eventually our group got to the point where my CC wasn't needed, but was still very helpful when sh*t hit the fan.
I will admit that SV's utility spec's are better for 5-man and the beginning of 10-man's. Eventually your group should become better and better geared so they can handle tougher situations, but it's always nice to be able to save them when things go wrong.
Now your big question will be if you want Readiness. The pitch you can give to your guild about your respec to SV is that not only will your EW add more damage to the raid, but the ability to pump out 2 Misdirects could be invaluable depending on the fight. Although I think you mentioned you had quite a few hunters already, so this may not be an issue.
However with Readiness you are able to use Misdirect, fire off your initial 3 shots. Go all out with Rapid Fire + whatever trinkets you have, Feign Death, then hit Readiness, and repeat the whole cycle. This way you've just given the tank an adequate amount of threat, you've blown your cooldowns twice, and more then likely (if you spec'd into MM) your Rapid Fire will be up again in 3 minutes (hopefully along with your other cooldowns; i.e. trinkets/racials).
With current raid buffs + elixirs + whatever else I can slap on myself, I can get almost 1K agility (also depends if I can find an enhancement shaman with better totems). Putting EW into affect this will add 250 extra AP to the entire raid (melee and ranged attackers alike). That's better then Blessing of Might.
Your guild needs to think outside the box a little bit more and see exactly everything you offer to not only to 25-man raids, but 5-man and 10-man situations. Not to mention as other posters have made abundantly clear, this is your game that you are paying for, if you don't like your current way of playing you can always respec, and change it up. You may find that you don't like SV at all, and that it was never for you. But you won't know until the given the chance to test it out.
Nothing wrong with expirementation, and if anything your guild should be giving you the chance to show what SV can bring to the table, rather then pre-judging you because they're so used to BM-DPS Hunters. Just my 2 cents though.
*EDIT*
Almost forgot, if you're looking for gear upgrades for your SV spec, check out this link: http://www.anybrowser.org/wow/survival_gear.html
Some one posted this in an earlier post, and it is very useful for those wanting to become an SV hunter and not sure what gear to go for or where to obtain it.
Edited, Feb 11th 2008 6:04pm by Joobishwun
I consider myself a norm around here even though I don't respond to every thread (but I do read them). But I do take pride in my SV spec and tweak it ever so slightly to experiment. Currently I am spec'd for pure PVE situations. It's not a bad build for normal PVP, but arena's I would highly advise against it.
Your biggest problem will be the fact that you aren't BM and that almost every guild now expects their hunters to maximize their DPS for a raid. Our CC abilities become almost useless in the 25 man's, and our DPS will lack behind that of a BM. However you should still be able to pull off being in the top 5 DPS'ers. Keep your shot-rotation consistent and you'll be fine.
Quote:
SV for 10 mans though, how useful is that?
In my previous guild, the guild leader would not run Kara without me being there. After showing him what exactly it is a hunter can do in terms of utility, I blew him away, and was given the title of "Master of CC". Eventually our group got to the point where my CC wasn't needed, but was still very helpful when sh*t hit the fan.
I will admit that SV's utility spec's are better for 5-man and the beginning of 10-man's. Eventually your group should become better and better geared so they can handle tougher situations, but it's always nice to be able to save them when things go wrong.
Now your big question will be if you want Readiness. The pitch you can give to your guild about your respec to SV is that not only will your EW add more damage to the raid, but the ability to pump out 2 Misdirects could be invaluable depending on the fight. Although I think you mentioned you had quite a few hunters already, so this may not be an issue.
However with Readiness you are able to use Misdirect, fire off your initial 3 shots. Go all out with Rapid Fire + whatever trinkets you have, Feign Death, then hit Readiness, and repeat the whole cycle. This way you've just given the tank an adequate amount of threat, you've blown your cooldowns twice, and more then likely (if you spec'd into MM) your Rapid Fire will be up again in 3 minutes (hopefully along with your other cooldowns; i.e. trinkets/racials).
With current raid buffs + elixirs + whatever else I can slap on myself, I can get almost 1K agility (also depends if I can find an enhancement shaman with better totems). Putting EW into affect this will add 250 extra AP to the entire raid (melee and ranged attackers alike). That's better then Blessing of Might.
Your guild needs to think outside the box a little bit more and see exactly everything you offer to not only to 25-man raids, but 5-man and 10-man situations. Not to mention as other posters have made abundantly clear, this is your game that you are paying for, if you don't like your current way of playing you can always respec, and change it up. You may find that you don't like SV at all, and that it was never for you. But you won't know until the given the chance to test it out.
Nothing wrong with expirementation, and if anything your guild should be giving you the chance to show what SV can bring to the table, rather then pre-judging you because they're so used to BM-DPS Hunters. Just my 2 cents though.
*EDIT*
Almost forgot, if you're looking for gear upgrades for your SV spec, check out this link: http://www.anybrowser.org/wow/survival_gear.html
Some one posted this in an earlier post, and it is very useful for those wanting to become an SV hunter and not sure what gear to go for or where to obtain it.
Edited, Feb 11th 2008 6:04pm by Joobishwun
Fanoran wrote:
SV for 10 mans though, how useful is that?
The 21/40 SV spec is almost godly in Kara if your gear is decent.
But forget raid buffs, personal DPS, and all other outside chatter for a second.
Do you have the calling? SV spec is as much a calling as tanking is for other classes (or healing for that matter). Maybe I'm being prejudiced, but I find that tanks, healers, and buffbot hunters (who specced that way on their own, and not because they were brow beaten into it) tend to be team players. If that's you, your guild should be happy to have you regardless of a minor amount of personal DPS.
If BM isn't your thing, and MM just doesn't have that certain appeal, but SV calls to you, do it. But don't go into it half stepping. Commit to it. I spent over 800G the day I respecced (don't ask), and it was worth every copper. And yeah, at first my DPS lacked on a few fights... just a few (it actually went up on a few too). But as my gear caught up to me and my spec, my DPS climbed faster than I'd ever seen it climb.
We were just cracking the door on Kara when I respecced. 2 of our raid officers (I was one even then also) expressed their concern about it. Within 3 weeks, they had no more concerns. Our epicced out rogue can't touch me in DPS, and the Mage struggles to stay ahead of me (when he can. ;-)) Of course, I don't just afk on boss fights either. Even with "the most mana eficient" build, I chain chug fel mana pots like water. I'm on full nuke status from beginning to end on every fight. I took up herbalism just to offset my costs on the addicition. But as SV, I have to max my output maybe more than other specs. I don't mind. It's a challenge and fun.
Maybe I could increase my personal DPS a little by going BM. I'm sure I could. But at what cost? With 2 tanks, usually a rogue and 2 hunters (plus pets), that's 5 physical DPS just in 10 man content that benefits from my buff (7 when you count the pets). And raid buffed, I'm just shy of 1000 agi now (when we have a druid in the group anyway). I'm sure with a shammy, in 25 mans, I'd be well, well over 1000.
I jokingly mentioned respeccing the other day. Those same 2 raid officers threatened to break my fingers if I did. :D Respec. Work hard. Shine. You'll make them eat their words.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 1:59pm by Steelray
Quote:
SV for 10 mans though, how useful is that?
how useful is 5 FI's? FI is nice to have for the top dps in a raid. EW helps the tank and ALL physical dps, and allows you to be in the healer/spriest group so you get the mana battery during bosses :D Good thing too, since pumping out those arcanes and mutli's along with steadies can be painful to your mp.
In an ideal 10-man, i'd take 1 BM and 1 SV hunter, and boot all the rest.
Edit: your trapping gets MUCH better too.
Edited, Feb 12th 2008 11:27am by DukyFrodo
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